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Genesis 9 to Genesis 8 Male Clothing Autofit: Issue When Reloading Scene

jbarooshjbaroosh Posts: 35
edited January 5 in Technical Help (nuts n bolts)

Hi I have an issue with autofitted Genesis 9 clothes after closing DAZ. I've been using the "MMX Genesis 9 Clones for All" product to fit Genesis 9 clothes to Genesis 8 Male, which works great while the scene is still open. However, once the scene closes and I reopen it the autofitted Genesis 9 clothes look different and have all sorts of indents especially near the breast and sternum area. Is there a way to prevent this from happening or a workaround?

I've attached 2 images to demonstrate what I'm talking about, in the first image the shirt is autofitted to Genesis 8 Male before the scen is closed. In the second image you'll see that the shirt has strange marks and indents near the breast and sternum area, which happens when I reopen the scene.

Autofit Before Closing DAZ.png
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Autofit After Closing DAZ.png
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Post edited by jbaroosh on

Comments

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,975

    More likely it results from Smoothing iteration. Pls check if Enable Smoothing is On on the clothing. If it is, turn it off, save and reopen the scene to see if there's still any difference...

  • jbarooshjbaroosh Posts: 35
    edited January 5

    I did a couple of things:

    1) I reopened the scene, re-added the Genesis 9 shirt, then autofitted to Genesis 8 male. The result was the same as the first image from the previous post as expected, but this time I decided to turn smoothing off as you mentioned. When turning off smoothing it looks exactly like the second image from the previous post!

    2) After turning smoothing off I saved the scene and then reopened it. It looked very similar to image 2 from the previous post, but then when I turn the smoothing on it only smoothes out the collar and ignores everything else! Very strange behavior, I don't know why the smoothing is ignoring the rest of the clothing especially in the breast area. Note this issue only happens after reopning a scene.

    I have attached two images to show my findings after reloading the scene with smoothing off by default. The first image shows the smoothing off and then the second image shows smoothing back on.

    So, it does appear to be an issue with the smoothing functionality. Strangely, this appears to only affect Genesis 8 Male and not the other figures. Any idea how to solve or workaround this? I wanted to note that I'm using DAZ 4.21 Pro if that makes a difference.

    Smoothing Off.png
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    Smoothing On.png
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    Post edited by jbaroosh on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,975

    Good question ~ I've never noticed such a subtle change with Smoothing iterations in auto-fitting cases but I presume such an "issue" should happen to G8F as well... I'm not sure if there's a solid workaround for the time being this but you may try:

    - option 1: save the auto-fitted clothing as a Figure asset with your Vendor name then reload it to the scene... then compare the results in the same way as you did before.

    - option 2: with Enable Smoothing - On, export the clothing to OBJ file, turn off Enable Smoothing. Edit - Figure - Geometry - Update Base Geometry - Update Vertex Positions (from file) with OBJ. Then test and compare...

     

  • jbarooshjbaroosh Posts: 35
    edited January 5

    Here are my results.

    Option 1: Saving the shirt as a figure assett didn't change anything, the results were the same as the first post screenshots. I didn't even need to reload the scene, as soon as I loaded the shirt assett it had the same smoothing issues.

    Option 2: Exporting the shirt as an OBJ file did keep the correct smoothing shape. I imported the OBJ shirt into the scene and parented it to Genesis 8 Male. There's some poke through issues that weren't there before with the regular shirt item. I then did the "Edit - Figure - Geometry - Update Base Geometry - Update Vertex Positions (from file) with OBJ" option and there was no visible change.

    Attached is an image of the exported OBJ file of the shirt. I'm unfortunately not experienced with using OBJ files and wouldn't know how to make this work/fit on a figure properly, such as if the figure bent their abs. While it does kind of solve the smoothing issue I don't find it practical to use for clothing that is supposed to be responsive with the Genesis 8 figure.

    Shirt OBJ.png
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    Post edited by jbaroosh on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,975

    If so, option 1 proves that no matter the projected geometry with auto-fit is saved within the scene file or loaded from data folder, the issue still persists. Smoothing Iteration should be the culprit for such an "autofit" case. I haven't found issue with the non-autofit cases up to now.

    As for option 2, what you did is not correct. You should: after exporting OBJ file. Select auto-fitted clothing, turn off Enable Smoothing, Edit - Figure - Geometry - Update Base Geometry , tick the 2nd option, select the exported OBJ from the field of browsing the file at the bottom. It's the way of updating vertex positions of the clothing with the smoothed mesh...

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  • jbarooshjbaroosh Posts: 35

    Ok so I did option 2 wrong as you mentioned so I redid it. I unfortunately ran into a strange error when trying to update the base geometry from the file that shows "The target geometry does not match the geometry its updating. Vertex counts must be the same". I've attached a screenshot to show the error.

    I'm guessing this is happening because I'm exporting the OBJ file incorrectly, is that the case? I've tried exporting the shirt as an OBJ in multiple different ways such as unparenting it from G8M, deleting G8M, making G8M invisible, and just leaving the shirt on G8M. They all lead to this same error.

    Vertex Counts.png
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  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,975

    jbaroosh said:

    Ok so I did option 2 wrong as you mentioned so I redid it. I unfortunately ran into a strange error when trying to update the base geometry from the file that shows "The target geometry does not match the geometry its updating. Vertex counts must be the same". I've attached a screenshot to show the error.

    I'm guessing this is happening because I'm exporting the OBJ file incorrectly, is that the case? I've tried exporting the shirt as an OBJ in multiple different ways such as unparenting it from G8M, deleting G8M, making G8M invisible, and just leaving the shirt on G8M. They all lead to this same error.

    Ah yes, you need to export to OBJ with its Resolution Level set to Base... Sorry, I thought you know this ...

  • jbarooshjbaroosh Posts: 35
    edited January 6

    Alright I was able to export properly with the resolution level set to base. I was able to update the geometry of the shirt, but the results are a bit strange. The collar area has some clipping issues but the breast area isn't as bad. If I turn on smoothing it looks bad though, very similar to the result after closing the scene.

    Attached are some images for comparison. The first image is before closing the scene, the second image is updating the geometry from OBJ, the third image is the updated geometry from OBJ WITH smoothing, the fourth image is how the shirt originally looked after reopening the scene.

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    Updated Geometry From OBJ.png
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    Updated Geometry From OBJ with Smoothing.png
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    Autofit After Closing Scene.png
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    Post edited by jbaroosh on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,975
    edited January 6

    Okay... can you name the product of this Top ? I'll have a test if I own it.

    Post edited by crosswind on
  • jbarooshjbaroosh Posts: 35

    This particular Product is called "10-in-1 Casual Wardrobe for Genesis 9" and the shirt itself is called "10in1 Casual Wardrobe Sleeveless Crop Top".

    But you could test this with any Genesis 9 shirt, I've had the same exact problem with all Genesis 9 shirts.

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,975
    edited January 7

    OK, I have this product and could reproduce the issue on both G8F / G8M. (Screenshot 1 - after autofitting, Screenshot 2 - after saving and re-opening the scene file.) I tested with 4.21 and 4.22, three versions of General Release and Public Build, I got the same result. I still don't know why but the smoothing result after auto-fit seems better. I presume it should be s smoothing iteration issue from "reloading". If save the auto-fitted Top as a Wearable Preset, hide the auto-fitted one, load the Wearable Prest to the figure, the smoothed mesh changes in the same way...

    However, with the way of Updating Vertext Positions, the result I got on my side are correct. (Screenshot 3, I updated the Top on G8M...)  You may compare Screenshot 1 with Screenshot 3. The top on G8M are very same. I usually use this way to update Base Geometry of the garments I made with Smoothed Mesh, it always works well...

    So you may just try again - still not sure if you did it correctly... But again, pls be noted: You should 1st of all export the Top to OBJ file after Autofit, then: 
    - either Update Vertext Positions on the Top in the re-opened scene file...
    - or save the Top as a Wearable Preset, delete it and load the Wearable Preset to the figure. Then, select the Top, set Enable Smoothing to "Off", Update Vertext Postions, turn on Enable Smoothing.

    I attached the scene file with the updated Top, for your reference.

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    duf
    duf
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    Post edited by crosswind on
  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,678
    Interesting. I've had almost exactly this issue using a G8F dress on G9. It's perfect when initially placed into a scene. It goes wrong when opening the saved scene, and smoothing actively makes it worse. I'll try this method of curing the problem. It would be very interesting to nail down the root cause, because this isn't expected behaviour. Regards, Richard.
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,975

    Yea ~ agreed, as Richard said, that shouldn't be the expected behavior...

    I further had some tests, then I can confirm that the root cause is still Smoothing Modifier (smoothing iteration and collisions) but with two different conditions... Simple tests just proved that:
    Condition A:
    - Load the Top into the scene without fitting. Select the Top, Edit - Figure - Geometry - Remove Smoothing Modifier. Then auto-fit the Top to the figure. After auto-fitting, Edit - Figure - Geometry -  Add Smoothing Modifier
    - Save the scene file and re-open it. You won't see any change on the smoothed mesh of the Top.

    Condition B:
    - Load the Top into the scene without fitting. Select the Top, in Parameters pane, set Smoothing Type to "Generic".  Then auto-fit the Top to the figure.
    - Save the scene file and re-open it. You won't see any change on the smoothed mesh of the Top either...

    If you wanna maintain the smoothed mesh after autofit (which seems the best result...), you have to go for the above way of Updating Vertext Positions. But to me, such different behaviors are definitely issues... I'll support a ticket. Thank you guys for the discovery !

  • jbarooshjbaroosh Posts: 35
    edited January 7

    It's great that you confirmed the Update Vertex Positions trick works. I still can't get the shirt to look the same though after using the Update Vertex Position option and there's still issues at the collar, I'm definitely messing up the export as OBJ process. I have attached 3 screenshots:

    Image 1: Shows I have set the resolution level to base
    Image 2: Shows I hid Genesis 8 Male and am only showing the shirt (deleted G8M eyebrows)
    Image 3: Shows export settings

    Am I doing something wrong during the export process? Should I be unparenting the shirt from G8M, deleting G8M, and then export?

    Export Settings 1.png
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    Export Settings 2.png
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    Export Settings 3.png
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    Post edited by jbaroosh on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,975
    edited January 7

    First image is right !  Then no need to hide or unparent anything, just follow the Screenshot as below to export to OBJ file. Then double-check the steps in the above post that I highlighted in red. yes

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    Post edited by crosswind on
  • jbarooshjbaroosh Posts: 35
    edited January 7

    Thanks, that seems to have made things a lot better. I posted two screenshots, the first shows before closing the scene and the second one shows afer I updated the vertex positions with the proper OBJ file. There's still a bit of a difference at the collar but that's fine, it can be smoothed out with smoothing iterations. It's good enough.

    I'm hoping that the "RSSY Clothing Converter from Genesis 9 to Genesis 8" product that was just recently released will solve this issue. Does anyone happen to have that product yet who can test it?

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    After Correctly Updating Vertex.png
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    Post edited by jbaroosh on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,975
    edited January 7

    jbaroosh said:

    Thanks, that seems to have made things a lot better. I posted two screenshots, the first shows before closing the scene and the second one shows afer I updated the vertex positions with the proper OBJ file. There's still a bit of a difference at the collar but that's fine, it can be smoothed out with smoothing iterations. It's good enough.

    Yep ~ but they should be 100% same... Have more tries and compare to the one in the duf scene file I attached above if needed.

    I'm hoping that the "RSSY Clothing Converter from Genesis 9 to Genesis 8" product that was just recently released will solve this issue. Does anyone happen to have that product yet who can test it?

    It won't...and it'll even make the result pretty worse... as below SS... I nearly own all the converters from them but unfortunately the latest converters related to G9 don't work well indeed. Trust me... as a tinker, I can assure you that manual conversion with Autofit + necessary fixing is always the best way.

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    Post edited by crosswind on
  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,678
    edited January 7

    Here is my evidence that there is a problem.

    MSO Dola G9. Three figures with Lilflame Conflict dress. On the left, new figure, new dress, as expected with 3 smoothing iterations. When this character is saved as a Scene Subset & reloaded, the dress goes wonky, as per the middle figure. Three smoothing iterations. When the same figure is loaded again, as on the right, and the dress smothing iterations are bumped to 16.. It all goes quite badly. This is one G8F dress on G9. Others seem to behave similarly, so it doesn't seem to be a dress related artefact. I don't have a lot of G9 trials, as I simply don't often use G9. This is one of the reasons that keeps me from doing so, as I don't get it with G3F clothing on G8F.

    Regards,

    Richard

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    Post edited by richardandtracy on
  • jbarooshjbaroosh Posts: 35
    edited January 7

    crosswind said:

    I'm hoping that the "RSSY Clothing Converter from Genesis 9 to Genesis 8" product that was just recently released will solve this issue. Does anyone happen to have that product yet who can test it?

    It won't...and it'll even make the result pretty worse... as below SS... I nearly own all the converters from them but unfortunately the latest converters related to G9 don't work well indeed. Trust me... as a tinker, I can assure you that manual conversion with Autofit + necessary fixing is always the best way.

     

    Oh wow, this is actually very concerning. Does that mean the Genesis 9 to Genesis 8 converter doesn't really work then? I feel like that issue should be fixed first before releasing a converter like that, it sounds like a broken product at launch that won't even convert properly.

    Post edited by jbaroosh on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244

    I've been unable to get Update Base Geometry from file to work properly on the M3D XMAS Sweater freebie we got this year. I can't figure out why. The saved fix OBJ can be imported and looks fine. But when I use that OBJ to update base geometry on the sweater, it makes it worse. I don't get any error messages in the log or interface. I tried with the sweater fit to G9 at the time, with it not fit and G9 not even in the scene, with smoothing on and with smoothing removed. I'm using DS 4.22.1.41 Public Build.

    I'm going to be away from my DS computer for several days, so I can't post any screenshot examples.

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,975

    jbaroosh said:

    crosswind said:

    I'm hoping that the "RSSY Clothing Converter from Genesis 9 to Genesis 8" product that was just recently released will solve this issue. Does anyone happen to have that product yet who can test it?

    It won't...and it'll even make the result pretty worse... as below SS... I nearly own all the converters from them but unfortunately the latest converters related to G9 don't work well indeed. Trust me... as a tinker, I can assure you that manual conversion with Autofit + necessary fixing is always the best way.

     

    Oh wow, this is actually very concerning. Does that mean the Genesis 9 to Genesis 8 converter doesn't really work then? I feel like that issue should be fixed first before releasing a converter like that, it sounds like a broken product at launch that won't even convert properly.

    I haven't had chance to further dig out why that happend but that was the conversion result of a simple Top by using the converter with default settings... So, using auto-fit is still highly recommended. If you know some modeling / sculpting software, you can make a 99.9% perfect conversion.

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,975

    barbult said:

    I've been unable to get Update Base Geometry from file to work properly on the M3D XMAS Sweater freebie we got this year. I can't figure out why. The saved fix OBJ can be imported and looks fine. But when I use that OBJ to update base geometry on the sweater, it makes it worse. I don't get any error messages in the log or interface. I tried with the sweater fit to G9 at the time, with it not fit and G9 not even in the scene, with smoothing on and with smoothing removed. I'm using DS 4.22.1.41 Public Build.

    I'm going to be away from my DS computer for several days, so I can't post any screenshot examples.

    Oh ~~ this one ？ http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/92651/start

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244

    crosswind said:

    barbult said:

    I've been unable to get Update Base Geometry from file to work properly on the M3D XMAS Sweater freebie we got this year. I can't figure out why. The saved fix OBJ can be imported and looks fine. But when I use that OBJ to update base geometry on the sweater, it makes it worse. I don't get any error messages in the log or interface. I tried with the sweater fit to G9 at the time, with it not fit and G9 not even in the scene, with smoothing on and with smoothing removed. I'm using DS 4.22.1.41 Public Build.

    I'm going to be away from my DS computer for several days, so I can't post any screenshot examples.

    Oh ~~ this one ？ http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/92651/start

    That's the one. When I fit it to G9B, with smoothing off, the breast area pokes through the sweater. I can correct it and save an OBJ file that looks good when imported, but when I use that OBJ file to Update Base Geometry, the result is that the breast area pokes through even more. I'm baffled.

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,975
    edited January 8

    barbult said:

    crosswind said:

    barbult said:

    I've been unable to get Update Base Geometry from file to work properly on the M3D XMAS Sweater freebie we got this year. I can't figure out why. The saved fix OBJ can be imported and looks fine. But when I use that OBJ to update base geometry on the sweater, it makes it worse. I don't get any error messages in the log or interface. I tried with the sweater fit to G9 at the time, with it not fit and G9 not even in the scene, with smoothing on and with smoothing removed. I'm using DS 4.22.1.41 Public Build.

    I'm going to be away from my DS computer for several days, so I can't post any screenshot examples.

    Oh ~~ this one ？ http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/92651/start

    That's the one. When I fit it to G9B, with smoothing off, the breast area pokes through the sweater. I can correct it and save an OBJ file that looks good when imported, but when I use that OBJ file to Update Base Geometry, the result is that the breast area pokes through even more. I'm baffled.

    I got it ~ The issue has been easily reproduced....

    I believe this issue results from a wrong OBJ import done by M3D with probably an inverted X Axis or Scale value on X Axis reversed. Because after I imported OBJ with Morph Loader Pro, dialed it to 50%, then I got the result in Screenshot 2... dialed it to 100%, the geometry was totally inverted as Screenshot 3.

    I re-rigged the OBJ with Transfer Utility, as well as transferred morph targets....everything goes well. Let's ask M3D to rework this freebie ? devil  or we just fix it ourselves.

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    Post edited by crosswind on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244

    crosswind said:

    barbult said:

    crosswind said:

    barbult said:

    I've been unable to get Update Base Geometry from file to work properly on the M3D XMAS Sweater freebie we got this year. I can't figure out why. The saved fix OBJ can be imported and looks fine. But when I use that OBJ to update base geometry on the sweater, it makes it worse. I don't get any error messages in the log or interface. I tried with the sweater fit to G9 at the time, with it not fit and G9 not even in the scene, with smoothing on and with smoothing removed. I'm using DS 4.22.1.41 Public Build.

    I'm going to be away from my DS computer for several days, so I can't post any screenshot examples.

    Oh ~~ this one ？ http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/92651/start

    That's the one. When I fit it to G9B, with smoothing off, the breast area pokes through the sweater. I can correct it and save an OBJ file that looks good when imported, but when I use that OBJ file to Update Base Geometry, the result is that the breast area pokes through even more. I'm baffled.

    I got it ~ The issue has been easily reproduced....

    I believe this issue results from a wrong OBJ import done by M3D with probably an inverted X Axis or Scale value on X Axis reversed. Because after I imported OBJ with Morph Loader Pro, dialed it to 50%, then I got the result in Screenshot 2... dialed it to 100%, the geometry was totally inverted as Screenshot 3.

    I re-rigged the OBJ with Transfer Utility, as well as transferred morph targets....everything goes well. Let's ask M3D to rework this freebie ? devil  or we just fix it ourselves.

    Thank you for figuring this out. Let's fix it ourselves. When I'm back at my computer, I'll try to do as you did. yes

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,975
    ....

    Thank you for figuring this out. Let's fix it ourselves. When I'm back at my computer, I'll try to do as you did. yes

    No problem ! Pls take yout time. yes

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