A plea to the Daz3d Vendors

Petra

I am on a late 2012 build iMac and I do not have the power to use Iray , unless I want to render for many hours + to get a good quality Render without noise.

I can not afford a PC just now so I rely on the 3Delight  which I love and get good results.

I am pretty sure I am not the only one that can not yet use Iray .

When I come here to shop I ALWAYS look at each and every promotional Image to see what I am buying , how a render will look like, but for a long time now there are mostly, well mainly really Iray promotional Images and we, the ones who still use 3Delight only, have NO Idea how this product would look like rendered with 3Delight UNLESS we buy it.

I talk about the products that have both Iray and 3Delgith Shaders in it.

WHY can  you dear Vendors not spare a thought for us 3Delight Studo Users and PLEASE include at least 1 body and 1 Face 3Delight Image so that we have an IDEA what we getting.

And if it is an outfit PLEASE include 1 3Delight Render of the Material.

Surly you would made more profit if you show us a couple of 3Delight Promotional Images.

It wont take to much time since you already have in the scene what you render with Iray , just change the shader , switch to 3Delight and render away so that we have a clue what we would get.

I am sorry, I do not mean to sound harsh, but it makes me sad.

There are a number of products that I would buy in a heartbeat right now IF they had 3Delight promotional Images too.

If  you sell a product with BOTH shaders PLEASE show us how it looks.

Kind regards

Petra 

 

CypherFOX

Greetings,

Pet said:

It wont take to much time since you already have in the scene what you render with Iray , just change the shader , switch to 3Delight and render away so that we have a clue what we would get.

I don't disagree with your underlying thought, but just to be clear it is in NO WAY ANYTHING LIKE that simple.​  Iray and 3Delight handle light almost entirely differently, so a scene that is blocked out and lit for Iray will almost never work the same for 3Delight.  Furthermore, if you switch to 3Delight, you have to switch the textures of anything else in your scene, or it won't look right, and DAZ may/will reject your promo pictures.  (DAZ can and evidently regularly does reject PA's promos on the basis of not being good enough to sell the product.)

It's straightforward for a PA to see the image in their own renders and see that the 3Delight materials are working, and looking good.  It's an entirely different kettle of wax (!) to produce a promo-level render with 3Delight.

FWIW, I regularly run Iray renders (like...in the backround as I type this message! :) ) on my "iMac (27-inch, Mid 2011)" in CPU-only mode.  I do have a PC with a low-end 740GTX that I use for 'final renders' that's 2-4x faster despite having a slower underlying CPU, but 90% of my renders are stepwise refinements of a character or scene, and the iMac works fine for that.

That all said, I don't disagree with your thesis.  I'd like to see them put a 3Delight render in as well, even though I pretty much don't use it anymore.  Until/unless that changes, I think you need to go with the idea that if the description includes 3Delight textures, that they were good enough for the PA to include them, but the PA didn't feel comfortable creating a promo-level render with it.

Best of luck,

--  Morgan

 

mjc1016

CypherFOX said:

Greetings,

Pet said:

It wont take to much time since you already have in the scene what you render with Iray , just change the shader , switch to 3Delight and render away so that we have a clue what we would get.

I don't disagree with your underlying thought, but just to be clear it is in NO WAY ANYTHING LIKE that simple.​  Iray and 3Delight handle light almost entirely differently, so a scene that is blocked out and lit for Iray will almost never work the same for 3Delight.  Furthermore, if you switch to 3Delight, you have to switch the textures of anything else in your scene, or it won't look right, and DAZ may/will reject your promo pictures.  (DAZ can and evidently regularly does reject PA's promos on the basis of not being good enough to sell the product.)

It is doable...but not with the default shaders included in Studio...most of which are not publically available (still in testing stages) and, in general, is more work than just doing two separate setups.  It's not a flip a switch/press a button thing and many PAs will tell you, it is a very time consuming job doing 1 set of renders.

Petra

CypherFOX said:

Greetings,

Pet said:

It wont take to much time since you already have in the scene what you render with Iray , just change the shader , switch to 3Delight and render away so that we have a clue what we would get.

I don't disagree with your underlying thought, but just to be clear it is in NO WAY ANYTHING LIKE that simple.​  Iray and 3Delight handle light almost entirely differently, so a scene that is blocked out and lit for Iray will almost never work the same for 3Delight.  Furthermore, if you switch to 3Delight, you have to switch the textures of anything else in your scene, or it won't look right, and DAZ may/will reject your promo pictures.  (DAZ can and evidently regularly does reject PA's promos on the basis of not being good enough to sell the product.)

It's straightforward for a PA to see the image in their own renders and see that the 3Delight materials are working, and looking good.  It's an entirely different kettle of wax (!) to produce a promo-level render with 3Delight.

FWIW, I regularly run Iray renders (like...in the backround as I type this message! :) ) on my "iMac (27-inch, Mid 2011)" in CPU-only mode.  I do have a PC with a low-end 740GTX that I use for 'final renders' that's 2-4x faster despite having a slower underlying CPU, but 90% of my renders are stepwise refinements of a character or scene, and the iMac works fine for that.

That all said, I don't disagree with your thesis.  I'd like to see them put a 3Delight render in as well, even though I pretty much don't use it anymore.  Until/unless that changes, I think you need to go with the idea that if the description includes 3Delight textures, that they were good enough for the PA to include them, but the PA didn't feel comfortable creating a promo-level render with it.

Best of luck,

--  Morgan

 

Well, if it is good enough for Daz to sell the product ... one would love to see it rendered in at least , as I said, skin and texture render of whatever the product might be. 

I am pretty sure that is doable.

I know that there is not * make Promo Image * button and I know it takes time but hey, you want my money so why can you not show me what I can expect.

Not everyone , as I said , has a good enough mashin to use Iray to it's full potential.

My iMac will render for HOURS and it is just not good enough for me, I also do not have a PC to do a final render in, so that is not an option for me.

I am very happy with 3Delight and the SSS option but I refuse to buy products if I can not see how it looks rendered with 3Delight.

It is like a * Blind Date * you just do not know what you get * texture/shader wise * .

 

Please do not think that I am angry or anythign and in no way do I want to offend any PA's.

Petra

 

Petra

mjc1016 said:

CypherFOX said:

Greetings,

Pet said:

It wont take to much time since you already have in the scene what you render with Iray , just change the shader , switch to 3Delight and render away so that we have a clue what we would get.

I don't disagree with your underlying thought, but just to be clear it is in NO WAY ANYTHING LIKE that simple.​  Iray and 3Delight handle light almost entirely differently, so a scene that is blocked out and lit for Iray will almost never work the same for 3Delight.  Furthermore, if you switch to 3Delight, you have to switch the textures of anything else in your scene, or it won't look right, and DAZ may/will reject your promo pictures.  (DAZ can and evidently regularly does reject PA's promos on the basis of not being good enough to sell the product.)

It is doable...but not with the default shaders included in Studio...most of which are not publically available (still in testing stages) and, in general, is more work than just doing two separate setups.  It's not a flip a switch/press a button thing and many PAs will tell you, it is a very time consuming job doing 1 set of renders.

I do not mean to offend anyone nor saying that it is not a lot of hard work making Promotional Images, I can see how much work goes in to those Iray Promo Images , but, I just wish that at least a couple of 3Delight Renders where included.

You want my money, but I am not parting with my money if I do not know what I am getting because there is a BIG difference beteween Iray and 3Delight Renders and I am not willing to buy if it without an Idea of what it looks like.

As I said, I did not start this thread to offend the PA's .

Petra

XoechZ

Maybe this is just a part of a big plan to force us using Iray.... :-)

nicstt

I'm an IRAY user, but thing those wanting to see what they are buying first is perfectly reasonable; I have issues with...

CypherFOX said:

Greetings,

Pet said:

It wont take to much time since you already have in the scene what you render with Iray , just change the shader , switch to 3Delight and render away so that we have a clue what we would get.

I don't disagree with your underlying thought, but just to be clear it is in NO WAY ANYTHING LIKE that simple.​  Iray and 3Delight handle light almost entirely differently, so a scene that is blocked out and lit for Iray will almost never work the same for 3Delight.  Furthermore, if you switch to 3Delight, you have to switch the textures of anything else in your scene, or it won't look right, and DAZ may/will reject your promo pictures.  (DAZ can and evidently regularly does reject PA's promos on the basis of not being good enough to sell the product.)

It's straightforward for a PA to see the image in their own renders and see that the 3Delight materials are working, and looking good.  It's an entirely different kettle of wax (!) to produce a promo-level render with 3Delight.

FWIW, I regularly run Iray renders (like...in the backround as I type this message! :) ) on my "iMac (27-inch, Mid 2011)" in CPU-only mode.  I do have a PC with a low-end 740GTX that I use for 'final renders' that's 2-4x faster despite having a slower underlying CPU, but 90% of my renders are stepwise refinements of a character or scene, and the iMac works fine for that.

That all said, I don't disagree with your thesis.  I'd like to see them put a 3Delight render in as well, even though I pretty much don't use it anymore.  Until/unless that changes, I think you need to go with the idea that if the description includes 3Delight textures, that they were good enough for the PA to include them, but the PA didn't feel comfortable creating a promo-level render with it.

Best of luck,

--  Morgan

 

Renders not good enough to sell a product? But is happy for it to go on sale anyway - that is not right.

Ati

XoechZ said:

Maybe this is just a part of a big plan to force us using Iray.... :-)

That's what I'm "worried" about. This is why I started a "What's the future of 3Delight" thread a while back. ( http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/64379/what-s-the-future-of-3delight )

I'm really "worried" that we'll be forced to use Iray at some point. It's a personal opinion: I like the looks of 3Delight better. Sure, I can imagine Iray in certain cases, and it's not bad at all, I just personally like the looks of 3Delight better for what I'm doing.

There's an updated version of the 3Delight render engine in the upconing 4.9, so it's not going anywhere yet, but still... :)

Stargazey

I don't want to start using Iray - I like 3Delight. I'd be happy if vendors would include 3Delight shaders as well as just Iray. I've been caught out once, in future I won't buy anything that only has Iray shaders.

DigiDotz

maybe catch them in the commercial products forum and request a delight render as I take it their product is already accepted or already released if promoted there.

I love Iray but yeah I cant render much with it once hair and clothes are added to a character -unless I can do without th pc for hours at a time.

DigiDotz

Petra, if you like the look of a product then buy it --- If you cant get it to render well in 3delight you can always ask for a refund under the Daz 100% money back guarantee

 

BeeMKay

Just for the record, there's been a thread with 150 replies on the samne topic here: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/65698/vendors-we-all-don-t-use-iray

Arguements are pretty much the same as in this thread.

Perhaps the best strategy, rather than posting here in the forum, is to file a ticket with customer support, maybe referring to the threads, and the more people file one, the better, because at some point, it will be upgraded from "a handful of unsatisfied customers filing something" to "Salt Lake City, we have a problem", and forwarded to the people in charge. It's up to them to decide on the rules of images for the shop.

Just my two cents, from my own experience being of on both sides of the customer support system (though not the DAZ one). :-)

Petra

BeeMKay said:

Just for the record, there's been a thread with 150 replies on the samne topic here: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/65698/vendors-we-all-don-t-use-iray

Arguements are pretty much the same as in this thread.

Perhaps the best strategy, rather than posting here in the forum, is to file a ticket with customer support, maybe referring to the threads, and the more people file one, the better, because at some point, it will be upgraded from "a handful of unsatisfied customers filing something" to "Salt Lake City, we have a problem", and forwarded to the people in charge. It's up to them to decide on the rules of images for the shop.

Just my two cents, from my own experience being of on both sides of the customer support system (though not the DAZ one). :-)

I have not seen this thread , I am sorry, but this is something that is of importance for me as a Customer.

YES I already filed a ticket, I got a reply that she * who answered the ticket * will pass it on.

Nothing since, no changes ...

That is why I asked here, I was not sure which forum to post it in, this seemed the right choice.

 

Petra

DigiDotz said:

Petra, if you like the look of a product then buy it --- If you cant get it to render well in 3delight you can always ask for a refund under the Daz 100% money back guarantee

 

I understand that I could do ask for refundes and I have done .

The thing is so, all the refunding * I am sure I am not the only one * could be avoided if the PA's would include 2 Promo Images  like 1 body and 1 Make up  or 1 Promo if it is a Shader / Material set.

I really do not want to step on the PA's toes, I is just something that I really feel strongly about as a Customer.

I do not buy products if I do not see what they look like e.g what I can expect for them to look like.

Petra

Stargazey said:

I don't want to start using Iray - I like 3Delight. I'd be happy if vendors would include 3Delight shaders as well as just Iray. I've been caught out once, in future I won't buy anything that only has Iray shaders.

I have to read and re read just to make sure it has 3Delight Shaders included, most products still have, my problem is that no 3Delight Promotional Images are included in the Products, so we buy blind and that , to me, is not good enough.

So I will not buy any products anymore that include 3Delight Shaders but no Promo Images with those Shaders.

Petra

XoechZ said:

Maybe this is just a part of a big plan to force us using Iray.... :-)

Hmmm, I do not see 3Delight going anywhere soon :)

Petra

DigiDotz said:

maybe catch them in the commercial products forum and request a delight render as I take it their product is already accepted or already released if promoted there.

I love Iray but yeah I cant render much with it once hair and clothes are added to a character -unless I can do without th pc for hours at a time.

I agree. 

fastbike1

But being "forced" to use 3Delight (before) was ok? 

Ati said:

XoechZ said:

Maybe this is just a part of a big plan to force us using Iray.... :-)

That's what I'm "worried" about. This is why I started a "What's the future of 3Delight" thread a while back. ( http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/64379/what-s-the-future-of-3delight )

I'm really "worried" that we'll be forced to use Iray at some point. It's a personal opinion: I like the looks of 3Delight better. Sure, I can imagine Iray in certain cases, and it's not bad at all, I just personally like the looks of 3Delight better for what I'm doing.

There's an updated version of the 3Delight render engine in the upconing 4.9, so it's not going anywhere yet, but still... :)

 

Ati

fastbike1 said:

But being "forced" to use 3Delight (before) was ok? 

Ati said:

XoechZ said:

Maybe this is just a part of a big plan to force us using Iray.... :-)

That's what I'm "worried" about. This is why I started a "What's the future of 3Delight" thread a while back. ( http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/64379/what-s-the-future-of-3delight )

I'm really "worried" that we'll be forced to use Iray at some point. It's a personal opinion: I like the looks of 3Delight better. Sure, I can imagine Iray in certain cases, and it's not bad at all, I just personally like the looks of 3Delight better for what I'm doing.

There's an updated version of the 3Delight render engine in the upconing 4.9, so it's not going anywhere yet, but still... :)

 

I cannot answer this. I joined this May, when there was 3Delight and Iray.

Petercat

You could make a forum thread about a product and ask if anyone who already owns it would do a 3Delight render and post it for you to see.

Lots of helpful people on this forum, you would probably get a quick response.

I would also rather see a couple of 3Delight promo images as well, but until that happens, well...

Petra

Petercat said:

You could make a forum thread about a product and ask if anyone who already owns it would do a 3Delight render and post it for you to see.

Lots of helpful people on this forum, you would probably get a quick response.

I would also rather see a couple of 3Delight promo images as well, but until that happens, well...

It is a good Idea but to come to a forum first to ask for Renders that really should be included in products, that is not an option , I would be in the forums asking for Renders a lot of the time.

I alays believed in good Customer Care and Service and to me, providing Images that show the Customer how a product looks like  should be the norm. 

3Delight looks different to Iray Renders, so the Iray Renders are not at all good for me , as a Customer.

As it is , for now,  A LOT of Customers do not use Iray and are suposed to just buy and hope for the best.

I am not after they Vendors money, but they do want sell to me ;)