No, nah, and NO
SnowSultan
Posts: 3,626
I'm running into more and more of this lately, and I figure since it apparently takes weeks for a support ticket to get looked at, perhaps sharing some of these ridiculous errors might get them fixed faster. I know having one surface might not be an issue for some people, but it drastically decreases the usefulness of an item, so I'm including it.
Come on, let's try and return to when we didn't have to hope for the best when we bought stuff here.
no-no-and-no.png
1915 x 861 - 787K
Post edited by SnowSultan on
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Comments
I suppose you got stuck with that in a bundle. If not, return it.
I don't really want to return any of these things, I just want DAZ and PAs to pay more attention and try and avoid these sorts of mistakes in future products. That capelet is bad though, I would consider returning that product (it's a full armor set) but I think it's been too long.
At least the "several Poses directories" problem can be solved easily when one knows how to move files under Windows.
I also encountered the same issue in the case of "first No", even the same vendor, like that one in your screenshot, didn't use the same way to correctly set up the pose sub-folders... or Daz team wrongly packed them ? I had to correct them in content folder and manifest file in IM packages...
In the cases of "second and third NO", are they from this store ?
Not if someone is planning to use Smart Content (it's likely require other changes but I currently don't know what they are).
Exactly. For Smart Content users, existing metadata of the product won't work anymore after "directly moving folders / files". So either correct the folder structure, Manifest and metadata files in IM package before installation, or after moving folders no matter in File Explorer or Content Library, correct file paths in metadata file (*.dsx), then re-import it.
Both use quads and actually have very good topology.
Yes, I haven't purchased anything from any other store in a number of years. You can actually set up material zones/surfaces inside of Studio and it's not hard, but it depends entirely on the mesh topology.
Thank you, yes this is exactly why it bothers me. I used to sort my content manually, moving files and directories around and trying to keep a clean content directory for about 18 years before finally giving in and letting Smart Content work. Now I still have to sort the stuff manually in the Categories structure, so it's a pain either way.
Oh, it's that simple ?
If there is an official update, will DIM still be able to find the moved product ?
Right, not complex. But considering the official update you may get for re-installation, you better also correct the file paths in *.DSX file in the folder of Manifest Archive...otherwise when IM package uninstalls the files you ever moved, it cannot find the files from the original DSX file.
However, if the files in the update package locate in the very same folder(s) to which you've ever moved the files, you don't have to worry if DIM is able to find the moved files or not... Anyway, the above process is always the safest way if you go for fixing the issue yourself while waiting for the product update ~~
You are muddling issues with matters of design - having one surface may not suit you, but it certainly isn't a bug and I very much doubt it would be chnaged in response to a ticket. Posting here isn't likely to reach most PAs, and the tone of the posts isn't going to encourage those who do see them to participate more.
And you wonder why I have a 'tone'?
I'm not muddling issues with matters of design, like I said before you nuked my posts, I know it is not a bug, but it is a design choice that should be discouraged because it lessons the usefulness of the product and all I'm trying to do here is encourage any creators who see this to not do it again. I'm not going to file a ticket over those poses being in the wrong directory, but why can't DAZ tell these vendors that their stuff needs to be in the proper places or they will be rejected? I'll post another example later to show how many of those I've got. Every new item is in a vendor vanity folder, and with all due respect, I really do not need to be reminded of who made the rock textures that I need to apply to a wall to replace the jpeg artifact-filled, barely-tiling original texture. Won't be hard to find good examples of that either.
Just...reign in the chaos a little, that's all I'm saying.
If you have a couple of minutes, you should: I did it a couple of time and the problem was fixed. I don't remember how fast each case was solved but I don't think it has to go back to an artist and can be solved by Daz Q&A team directly.
A recent exemple was a couple of days ago when I was surprised to discover where a product I got a couple of months ago as part of a bundle was located, because either someone at Daz saw that the location was wrong or another customer opened a ticket to alert Daz, and the location was back where it should be (I think it was at the root of the 'People' folder and was moved into the 'Genesis 9' folder).
I beleive that PA folders are now a requirement - I regard them as a mixed blessing, for somethings where people have distinctive styles it is helpful to group by PAs but for others it is an obstacle, but it is easy to use categories or links to organise differently without disturbing the isntalled files. It wasn't necessarily vanity even when it was a choice by the PA, so calling it that (and especially calling it that when PAs are not given a choice) is unlikely to do anything but make PAs less inclined to read thr forums and get the useful feedback.
The problem here, I think, is that the pose are in '/People/Genesis 9/Genesis 9 Feminine/Poses/3D Sugar/Fierce And Fearless' when the correct path, based on other poses products for Genesis 9 should be either '/People/Genesis 9/Poses/3D Sugar/Fierce And Fearless/Base Feminine' or '/People/Genesis 9/Poses/3D Sugar/Fierce And Fearless'.
We always called them 'vanity folders', but fine, I meant no ill intent.
Speaking of!...
That's a nesting nightmare and no I'm not going to use the database to find things because it's more durable to rearrange file locations for the user-facing files and I prefer to rid myself of the nesting nightmares described above. Product updates are manageable. The appearance of a vendor folder tells me where to look.
Hmm... my posts ~~ Anyway, I agree with Elor. In most of their products, the paths are correct, some are wrong. That won't stop the presets from working other than just making the folders messy.
Actually I used to be a pure Content Libary user when I started using DS, I did really care about the issue of messy folders in my library. However, since I started much relying on Smart Content, most of the time I just let go the messy issue, esp. when I have nearly 30K products in the lib.. fixing these messy issues really takes time, not really worth the effort. I'd rather focus on my work ~~
It would be nice if the store page for a product listed the number of currently open tickets against the product. Or even, put that on the README page and add a link to the README to the product page. That would push the db lookup for open ticket count to the README page. I know there's a plugin that adds a link to the product README to the store page (and a does a number of other useful things) but while I think it's a great plugin I stopped using it not long after it had to change its funding model.
Stuff that would be useful in a thread would be characters that break other characters, products that have name collisions with other products, and so on. Sure, tickets should be opened but they don't show up to prospective buyers leaving unsuspecting customers to buy stuff that's actually broken and which may never be fixed.
Also, it is nice to know which products have "cosmetic issues" like goofy orientation of shaders/textures (which, in the case of the scale texture at the beginning of the thread sure looks like an error to me). And which products have less than useful material zones, etc. So I hope this thread sticks around.
DAZ-DEALS gives links to this forum of every linked mention of a product on said product's page. This has been very helpful to me in finding issues before purchasing.
Using the Content Library/Products/1-Z folders has all but eliminated searching for products or being frustrated by Daz's lack of categorization discipline.
Yeah I'm with you there. I'm pretty dependent on the Smart Content and not overly concerned about how chaotic the file situation, as the time it'd take to fix it isn't worth it. I occasionally run into issues, but not that many.
For OP-I understand you're frustration. I have an issue with a product that hasn't been updated and it's sitting in DIM, waiting to be installed. I've opened two tickets about it and unfortunately received no response. I would have preferred to have it resolved and use it, but at this point, I might see if I can just get store credit for it. It's not worth my time to find a fix on my own (nor should I have to) and I've already spent a lot of time trying to fix it, to no avail.
At the end of the day, both Daz and the PA answer for the quality in the biggest way-sales. I won't ever buy from this vendor again and not because there was an issue, it's because it's been ignored for nearly 6 months (I bought it much more recently). Maybe I'll change my mind later but for now, that's my stance.
My point is that as annoyed as you can be at the product, remember it happens because the PAs aren't perfect. We all encounter this stuff, and we try to help. But we need it to be in an approachable, conducive way as some PAs themselves also read the forums and you might get lucky with a response on what they can do, too.
One may knock on many a door in Stonemason's Urban Future, Urban Sprawl, and Streets series, but a scant few of them will open. I'll gladly live with it, but Fugazi's no escape rooms....
chungdan formerly made great footwear and, later, some splendid outfits---hasn't yet been active this generation---and most of his early offerings had one surface, which was disappointing, but his provided material options were so fabulously attractive and varied that I was happy to take what I could get and become acquainted with the geometry editor tool. My girl kicks her feet up and has lotsa full body shots just to show off his gear. Below, I added fur to the boots on the right thanks to geometry editor and Leather and Fur Iray Shaders, and removed scissors and ribbons from the boots on the left with the geo edit tool as well. Make it so!
In regards to the second image, the entire arm piece having one surface instead of separate surfaces. As much as I dont like seeing that either as a customer, there are a few things to consider from the PA perspective.
Mesh design - By limiting the mesh to a single surface, it allows you to model the piece as low or high poly with as much or little detail as needed. This bennefits rigging it for movement and morphs.
Skill - Not every PA has the same skill level, so modeling all the details needed to reflect thier vision of the final product may not be possible. If they are more skilled in Substance then in modeling, it would not be surprising they stick to their strengths.
Flexability - Simply put, you can paint a lot of details that would be otherwise hard to model in and offer more variety of designs.
Time and Money - These two points go together and probably dont need to be discussed. The less time a PA has to take to make a sellable product, not a their best prodcut or a really great product but just a sellable product, the more return they can get from their time and effort spent. The more you can produce, the more you can sell and the more money you can make, in theory!
"In theory!" Until people stop buying from you because the quality disappoints them.
For me, the Daz Store is for content that has utility in Daz Studio. If a product in the store doesn't fully cater to the strengths of Studio and the workflows people use it for, then why shouldn't people point out where it it could do better? I don't feel that something working better for a vendor - not artist, because when we talk about utility products, we're talking about a seller-buyer transaction rather an art acquisition to passively admire - is a fair reason to explain why some products are as they are. We're not patrons and, as much as we wouldn't wish to patronise sellers, we don't wish to be patronised ourselves. We understand our needs, and if a product isn't meeting those needs, then being less transparent about where vendors and buyers can meet doesn't seem conducive to better sales and more all-round happiness. Nobody is attacking an artist's merit, only surfacing what should be valuable information about productionising their work.
On the folder debate - I use smart content, but my library is now large enough that I literallly can't find products that I know I've bought. And many products don't appear to be properly indexed in the database to the point that simple text searches don't surface their content. I've tried to keep on top of properly categorising products in my smart content, but I simply can't. Looking at how people use the vanilla content tab, I can see how I could organise my products far more easily than battling with smart content categories. And letting Windows index my library folders should sort out many of my text searches needs. The folder structures shown in this thread are still a mess - and while that structure may be mandated by Daz, it appears to me to be for their own convenience rather than my convenience - but at least it's a quick job to drag some files into a different folder, with the caveat that we still need to be careful when it comes to content referenced by other content. Smart content is just as poorly organised anyway, but it's also slow to navigate, and customising its categories is a truly foul experience.
Users don't all have the same criteria for deciding what to buy, though. Someone who stops buying from a given PA because they feel the items are of low quality could easily replaced by someone who likes how well-optimized the items are for game engines.
For the record, I'd prefer not having PA folders between me and my content. Not that my preferences have ever mattered.
And, like the OP mentioned, re-organizing and re-packaging every product I buy - folder-wise or 'smart'-wise - really gets old.
And, like the OP mentioned, while it's not worth filing tickets, it's simply sloppy and unnecessary to have such blatant and easy-to-prevent packaging mistakes get through DAZ' Q/A so consistently.
cheers,
--ms
yup...
I'm not sure the brokerage appreciates how much *their* brand suffers when they surrender their standards for that 'time and money' quality/mediocrity tension. For every Stonemason, there are a good number of not-Stonemasons for sure.
To be honest, there are a couple of vendors here that I wish I could block from my browsing lists... then there are a couple I wish I could get notified whenever they post a new product.
--ms
To me, PA folders are nothing but a nuisance, and I nuke them in those libraries that I manage in the Content Directory, without smart content. But I really really wish we could adapt smart content metadata in an easy way! I don't understand why the database clings to the original installation folders like glue, there seems to be no reason that I can see why users should not be able to organize their smart content to their heart's content
. This would solve many grievances I feel.
I don't use smart content, and do tend to remember who the PA of a clothing style is is rather than the product name, so 'Vanity' folders tend to be useful for me. Generally if I want a dress for my character I go to Arryn/Onnel, for leather wear, Rhiannon and for a bit of skimpwear to turn males into tongue tied lumps, Lilflame, then I search those library subdirectories for what I think will suit my character.
As a creator of freebie props & poses.. almost everyone has their own way of sorting their library, so I have absolutely no idea where will be best for any particular user, and it's almost guaranteed what I system I do use will be wrong for more than half of users. So, I stick it in a 'Vanity' folder because
What I'd really like is for DAZ (as a central 'authority' in this) to publish location recommendations and then I'd follow them. In the absense of such recommendations, it's a free-for-all. Unfortunately.
Regards,
Richard
I have a lot of trouble remembering the names of people I know in my life and that includes many of the PAs I have bought products from. Yes, there are some with a very distinctive style, RawArt, AeonSoul, ChevyBabe, esha, Stonemason... that I can recognize almost immediately, but others, well I am clueless. As I am installing products I have bought into my new computer I have found that I am surprised that one I own it, two who made it, three how could I forget it! This is why Content Library is not useful for me except for a few products like complex shaders.
And as for metadata, I am frustrated beyond words the items dropped into one category that have no relationship with that one. A car, food, clothing, dumpster all coded as 'Furnishings/Decor'! At least make it simple for the user to fix this again for ourselves.