Minion Issue?> G8 -> G9

paulawp (marahzen)

Hello. Yes, another pose thread, as I'm tinkering with this pose project today.

I ran into an unexpected weirdness when testing G8 poses on G9. Here, I've cut to the chase and compared a stock G9 figure (on right), with the G8 Female Minion, to a G8 figure (Gabriela in this example, on left).I tried all of the G8/G8.1 Male and Female minions and had the same problem.

I swear this is new - I haven't done that much creating lately with full poses and so haven't used the G8 for G9 minions in a while, but they weren't doing this before. Have I bought something that screwed up how minions work on G9?

This isn't the only deformation; it's also not bending legs correctly in some poses and there's more subtle problems, but this gives an idea of how broken something is. Help!

https://www.daz3d.com/bone-minion-for-genesis-8-and-81-poses-for-genesis-9

ETA: I had just tested a new G2 pose set, using the G2 -> G9 minion, and it worked fine. So it's not a problem with all minions, or all of G9.

DustRider

This won't help with the problem your having with Bone Minion, but it might help to understand if it is a problem with Bone minion itself, or something else on your system. I would recomend "installing" the free "Genesis-1-2-3-8-9-to-Genesis-2-3-8-9-pose-converter" that can be found in the freebies forum here:
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/605941/genesis-1-2-3-8-9-to-genesis-2-3-8-9-pose-converter-updated-2025-01-03/p1

If you experience the same issues using this converter, then the problem is probably some sort of general conflict on your system. If not, then it is something specific to Bone Minion. I've used this converter a lot recently (just found it a couple weeks ago), and the fact that it's bi-directional can be a huge plus. For example, select a G2 figure in your scene, then selects a pose for G9, activate the converter (I saved than as custom actions), and you have you G2 using a G9 pose.

Hope this helps to at least determine if the problem is global or just Bone Minion.

paulawp (marahzen)

DustRider said:

This won't help with the problem your having with Bone Minion, but it might help to understand if it is a problem with Bone minion itself, or something else on your system. I would recomend "installing" the free "Genesis-1-2-3-8-9-to-Genesis-2-3-8-9-pose-converter" that can be found in the freebies forum here:
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/605941/genesis-1-2-3-8-9-to-genesis-2-3-8-9-pose-converter-updated-2025-01-03/p1

If you experience the same issues using this converter, then the problem is probably some sort of general conflict on your system. If not, then it is something specific to Bone Minion. I've used this converter a lot recently (just found it a couple weeks ago), and the fact that it's bi-directional can be a huge plus. For example, select a G2 figure in your scene, then selects a pose for G9, activate the converter (I saved than as custom actions), and you have you G2 using a G9 pose.

Hope this helps to at least determine if the problem is global or just Bone Minion.

Actually, I do use that utility often and haven't noticed this problem with it. But it sometimes just does not work - usually in the form of doing nothing. I could always count on Minion to always work so if it was a pose I really, really wanted that that utility wouldn't work on, I'd load up a Minion for the job. That happened today and that's when I ran into this problem while testing a G8-era pose.

DustRider

If both fail, maybe there is something embedded in the pose? Possibly making a minor change in the pose then saving it would "clean" it up and make it work?

crosswind

I've not used Minions for a while... but yes, that should be an issue coming from the Minions per se. I could easily reproduce them ( in both DS 4.22 / 4.23 ) ~~

Nearly all the values on joints' Twist are totally wrong (as well as tiny difference in Bend / Front-Back... though with same Limit range) ... even if Rotation Limits are turned Off. The values converted with Zev0 and Alexandru's scripts are all correct.

Edit: We should report the issue to RiverSoft Art.

 

paulawp (marahzen)

crosswind said:

I've not used Minions for a while... but yes, that should be an issue coming from the Minions per se. I could easily reproduce them ( in both DS 4.22 / 4.23 ) ~~

Nearly all the values on joints' Twist are totally wrong (as well as tiny difference in Bend / Front-Back... though with same Limit range) ... even if Rotation Limits are turned Off. The values converted with Zev0 and Alexandru's scripts are all correct.

Edit: We should report the issue to RiverSoft Art.

 

OK, I can open a ticket. I wonder what happened? I am quite sure they worked previously. 

Elor

paulawp (marahzen) said:

Actually, I do use that utility often and haven't noticed this problem with it. But it sometimes just does not work - usually in the form of doing nothing.

Are you using the last update ?

Because if you're not and if you're trying to convert a pose while using a timeline, what you may be seeing is a bug fixed in a recent update: if, let's say, you are trying to convert a pose at T=30 in your timeline, with an older version, it would look like the converter did nothing when what it did was applying the pose at the start of the timeline.

There was also another bug that could be invisible to you with some poses products (on my end, older products by DMs but not all of them) and what happened was the product would start converting the pose, then encounters something it didn't like in the way the poses were saved and abort, keeping the original pose. I only saw it because I have limit on by default and I had a window asking me wether I wanted to keep limit on or off with some bones already posed before being reverted to the original pose once the converter encountered the problematic part.

Both are fixed now, but you may have missed the recent updates:

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/605941/genesis-1-2-3-8-9-to-genesis-2-3-8-9-pose-converter-updated-2025-01-03

If it's not fixed, you're best bet is too take note of which poses are not converted, then open the log file to see if any error is visible and then report it in the support thread.

paulawp (marahzen) said:

OK, I can open a ticket. I wonder what happened? I am quite sure they worked previously. 

You can also post a message in the support thread, monitored by RiverSoft Art, too:

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/647041/released-bone-minion-for-genesis-9-poses-bundle-commercial

crosswind

paulawp (marahzen) said:

crosswind said:

I've not used Minions for a while... but yes, that should be an issue coming from the Minions per se. I could easily reproduce them ( in both DS 4.22 / 4.23 ) ~~

Nearly all the values on joints' Twist are totally wrong (as well as tiny difference in Bend / Front-Back... though with same Limit range) ... even if Rotation Limits are turned Off. The values converted with Zev0 and Alexandru's scripts are all correct.

Edit: We should report the issue to RiverSoft Art.

 

OK, I can open a ticket. I wonder what happened? I am quite sure they worked previously. 

I'm also sure they worked well before... but not for now. I know there were a couple of updates for G9 Starter Essentials around last year-end. I suspect some changes there impact the Minion's script(s)...

I posted the issue to the commercial thread as well: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/9046781/#Comment_9046781

Besides, Minion G3 for G9 doesn't correctly work either ~~

 

barbult

Did you try the heavyweight bone minion?

crosswind

barbult said:

Did you try the heavyweight bone minion?

It's a G9 Base as well as there's no Pose Controls from the Pose Presets, we shouldn't have to use minion with heavyweight. But I tried, no avail.

crosswind

paulawp (marahzen) said:

crosswind said:

I've not used Minions for a while... but yes, that should be an issue coming from the Minions per se. I could easily reproduce them ( in both DS 4.22 / 4.23 ) ~~

Nearly all the values on joints' Twist are totally wrong (as well as tiny difference in Bend / Front-Back... though with same Limit range) ... even if Rotation Limits are turned Off. The values converted with Zev0 and Alexandru's scripts are all correct.

Edit: We should report the issue to RiverSoft Art.

 

OK, I can open a ticket. I wonder what happened? I am quite sure they worked previously. 

I can't believe it could've been that simple, as per the feedback from RiverSoft Art. Though I don't remember if I had to do it before... but anyway you need to make sure Rotation Limits are turned Off before applying the Pose Presets to the minion...

And Twist value is set on Twist Bone, e.g. Left Upper Arm Twist 2... that's why we cannot find its value.

paulawp (marahzen)

crosswind said:

paulawp (marahzen) said:

crosswind said:

I've not used Minions for a while... but yes, that should be an issue coming from the Minions per se. I could easily reproduce them ( in both DS 4.22 / 4.23 ) ~~

Nearly all the values on joints' Twist are totally wrong (as well as tiny difference in Bend / Front-Back... though with same Limit range) ... even if Rotation Limits are turned Off. The values converted with Zev0 and Alexandru's scripts are all correct.

Edit: We should report the issue to RiverSoft Art.

 

OK, I can open a ticket. I wonder what happened? I am quite sure they worked previously. 

I can't believe it could've been that simple, as per the feedback from RiverSoft Art. Though I don't remember if I had to do it before... but anyway you need to make sure Rotation Limits are turned Off before applying the Pose Presets to the minion...

And Twist value is set on Twist Bone, e.g. Left Upper Arm Twist 2... that's why we cannot find its value.

Weird, I don't recall ever doing anything other than adding the minion and applying poses to it. As mentioned, just moments before I ran into this problem with G8, G2 -> G9 seemed to work as usual. Did something change about the default Rotation Limit setting recently?'

I have bought a lot of stuff, including numerous G9 figures.

RiverSoft Art

paulawp (marahzen) said:

crosswind said:

paulawp (marahzen) said:

crosswind said:

I've not used Minions for a while... but yes, that should be an issue coming from the Minions per se. I could easily reproduce them ( in both DS 4.22 / 4.23 ) ~~

Nearly all the values on joints' Twist are totally wrong (as well as tiny difference in Bend / Front-Back... though with same Limit range) ... even if Rotation Limits are turned Off. The values converted with Zev0 and Alexandru's scripts are all correct.

Edit: We should report the issue to RiverSoft Art.

 

OK, I can open a ticket. I wonder what happened? I am quite sure they worked previously. 

I can't believe it could've been that simple, as per the feedback from RiverSoft Art. Though I don't remember if I had to do it before... but anyway you need to make sure Rotation Limits are turned Off before applying the Pose Presets to the minion...

And Twist value is set on Twist Bone, e.g. Left Upper Arm Twist 2... that's why we cannot find its value.

Weird, I don't recall ever doing anything other than adding the minion and applying poses to it. As mentioned, just moments before I ran into this problem with G8, G2 -> G9 seemed to work as usual. Did something change about the default Rotation Limit setting recently?'

I have bought a lot of stuff, including numerous G9 figures.

More than likely, you just got lucky   If the poses don't twist the bones too severely, you might not see a problem.  Occassionally, I will forget to turn off limits and will be playing happily with a bunch of poses... only to be reminded when I hit one that causes problems.