Genesis 9 smooth expressions?

scuttlebuns

I am going for a toon style, and expressions distorting the face, especially the forehead distortions, are unsettling. I found a good product for genesis 9 but, they don't seem to have one for genesis 9.

https://www.daz3d.com/expression-smoother-for-genesis-8-female-and-male

Any possible alternatives?

GhostofMacbeth

Have you turned off the HD expressions?

scuttlebuns

GhostofMacbeth said:

Have you turned off the HD expressions?

Actually not using HD expressions. Using the anime expression distorts the forehead and cheeks quite a bit. I was uping if there was something that can relax the mesh so the distortion is not as obhious. I am rendering in Iray and not filament, so it's not as "flat." Since I'm going for a toon look, these distortions looks ugly.

GhostofMacbeth

Sorry, I am not aware about the expressions on the toon because I haven't really used it. I will take a quick look but I am not aware of a product because the HD expressions have an on and off and that is mostly what I see used.

GhostofMacbeth

This is what I mean by the HD expressions, called FACS. You can dial them up or not. The right has them. That is where I might see wrinkles and this is one of the more extreme expressions.

crosswind

However, some G9 expression morphs were sculpted with HD mesh. You need to check if they're HD expression in Parameter Settings of the morph properties. Better name the product you use if you have no idea how to check...

scuttlebuns

@GhostOfMacbeth ahh found the dial by searching for FACS, it's strength is zero.

@crosswind, I'm using the basic anime toon expressions that comes with genesis 9 toon essentials and expansions, not third-party. 

Not only distortions, the forehead seems to have these random bumps. It's not as visible in my current iray render attached because trying to hide distortions with over exposure, but it's very situational and not a proper fix.

I have FACS strength at zero, and I am not maxing out any of the expressions either. I tried building new characters from scratch, the distortions do exist, but in some it's barable. I was able to rule out if it was a character-specific issue. It's not character specific.

crosswind

OK, so I use Base Anime Surprised Angry as an example. You can see it pushes values to its Sub-component FACS properties: Brow Squeeze Left / Right. These properties are ERC Freezed with HD expression properties : FACSDetails_facs_bs_BrowSqueezeLeft_HD2 and FACSDetails_facs_bs_BrowSqueezeRight_HD2.

As they're HD morphs, so you see the bump and/or "distortions".(screenshot 1)  However, you won't see them with Filament drawstyle (screenshot 2), only some heavily-dialed expressions may show you an outline from a certain angle.... (screenshot 3)

scuttlebuns

@crosswind Yes, that's the thing, I am not using filament, but iray because I want have a 3D toon effect similar to overwatch, marvel rivals, final fantasy etc. The biggest few reasons I decided to go for 3D style was...  I had trouble getting skin wetness and other such detail effects working in filament, trouble getting decent lightin/shadows, and then hair - I'm unable to use catalog of hair I already have and applying filatoon shader only makes it look bad. There just isn't enough choice of decent toon hair that looks good in 2D style. The few made specifically for g9 anime toon style in shop is good, but that's too little a selection to make cast of characters. I'll have better OCs with going for modern final fantasy style 3D look where hair don't need to look too toony. So even if render takes long in my 6gb vram 3060 card and often requires restarting daz, I decided to go for 3D toon style with iray than 2D style with filament. I guess there is no way to "fix" this for Iray? I'm not that technically knowledgeable with Daz to know the implications of ERC  freezed morphs, but I guess we can't tamper with it.

crosswind

scuttlebuns said:

@crosswind Yes, that's the thing, I am not using filament, but iray because I want have a 3D toon effect similar to overwatch, marvel rivals, final fantasy etc. The biggest few reasons I decided to go for 3D style was...  I had trouble getting skin wetness and other such detail effects working in filament, trouble getting decent lightin/shadows, and then hair - I'm unable to use catalog of hair I already have and applying filatoon shader only makes it look bad. There just isn't enough choice of decent toon hair that looks good in 2D style. The few made specifically for g9 anime toon style in shop is good, but that's too little a selection to make cast of characters. I'll have better OCs with going for modern final fantasy style 3D look where hair don't need to look too toony. So even if render takes long in my 6gb vram 3060 card and often requires restarting daz, I decided to go for 3D toon style with iray than 2D style with filament. I guess there is no way to "fix" this for Iray? I'm not that technically knowledgeable with Daz to know the implications of ERC  freezed morphs, but I guess we can't tamper with it.

I'm sorry that after I further checked the ERC Links again, that HD FACS morph is not the true culprit because another property FACS Detail Strength is 0 as default. I don't think you've dialed this property.  (screenshot 1)  If so, you can easily "fix" it now:

1) Go to Head Bone in Scene pane, Ctrl + Select Left Brow Inner and Right Brow Inner (screenshot 2)
2) Reset Transforms value to 0, i.e. type in 0 for Translate / Rotate, 100% for Scale (screenshot 3)  Also check Center Brow.

You can get much better result. Or tweak them with PowerPose tool if you're familiar with it.