Yellow plug-in general discussion
Richard Haseltine
Posts: 102,931
This discussion was created from comments split from: Share your Yellow results.
Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
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But... Why'd I turn to the next slop machine of the month when I have a vast library of characters made by talented PAs plus a sh*tton of morphs and whatnot to customize them?
I wasn't impressed with the beta, doubt it's gotten any better. I get the pay for tokens since the actual 'work' is done on their machines, but the results weren't worth the effort when it was free in beta
That was the bit I couldn't wrap my head around. Pay for an AI prompt, and then when it's not quite right, finish the job yourself!
...or, y'know, don't pay for an AI prompt and do the exact same thing?
The only thing I could maybe see it for is the documentation says you can ask for the likeness of celebrities in the prompt. But, of course, that would depend on its ability to actually spit out what you asked for.
And do I understand right that each prompt takes a token, whether or not you like what it spits out? Yeah, no.
Exactly. Even for the celebrities, we have dedicated PAs for that, too. I would really like to hear the feedback from PAs about this, because for those like @RawArt, the main appeal (for me) to their products are the unique morphs. Not sure if this can replicate that, but if not now, eventually it will. And for me, personally, part of what I enjoy doing is creating morphs and builds from my collection. There's always a sense of satisfaction when I get something just right.
Since I was mentioned....I really don't know how this system will impact PA's.
But what I do now is that truely unique morphs like the creatures I make take alot more thought than a dial spin. You have to give alot of creative thought to things such as the muscle structure that underlies the shape. Just dropping an animal head on a human will just look odd unless the muscles underneath make sense to support it. Even simple things like proportion need to be well thought out to give creatures structural stability and believability. So I would question how well an AI could do that (at this stage of ai development). Plus the unique shapes need alot of CBS so that they pose nicely.
That said, I don't think the craftsmanship that a PA gives to products will be easily replaced.
At least I hope not and I hope that customers are discerning of the craftsmanship we put into our products.
I agree with everything you said, but that last part is critical. Many PAs have my support because of their craftmanship and consistent quality. I don't want to see that undermined through the use of AI because I enjoy exploring the new products that are released and how I can best utilize them. I don't want this to turn into another AI debate, but sadly that's the nature of what this product represents. I'd rather support a PA and have a permament morph rather than entering prompts, rerolling until I get something I like or that I'll need to manual adjust, and at that point, it signifcantly devalues what Yellow was supposed to do in the first place.
I agree with RawArt that PA products will continue to outshine anything spat out by the AI and I personally will continue to support them.
That said, I haven't tried it yet but I am most intrigued by the "Famous people can be used as a reference" aspect. I love and will continue to buy many of the PA "celebrity" morphs as they are highly skilled, detailed, and I am sure way more accurate then the AI. But I am interested in what can be generated celebrity-wise for the simple fact that if I am looking for a particular celebrity, they most likely won't be available from the PAs unless its an A-List Mega-Star, from a wildly popular franchise, the PAs personal passion project, or some other factor that says the figure will sell well. As it should be. But if I want a personal favorite celebrity made into a Daz morph I am left with trying Face Transfer, etc with mixed at best results (in my opinion) or hiring a 3D modeler to do it. Most of the Daz3d custom character modelers that I've seen that create good likenesses better than face transfer et all are usually a year+ out on commisions and are thus closed from taking on more. So my hope is that Yellow can recognize lesser known "famous people" or gets the ability to use a LORA file to create models from for those.
I don't know, just my musings on the topic.
I don't need generic new humans. Yellow+ likely can't make the stuff I need. The documentation says, "Do not describe figures that have non-human anatomical features (e.g., mermaids, fairies, centaurs, cyclopes, mutilation, etc.)" It's not clear if it can make things like digigrade legs for characters. It's also not clear if the plug-in can be used to make PA "inspired" figures. What if I told it to make a character just like Marissa for G9 or the upper body of Merrick and the lower body of Hannalea? (I'm picking on RawArt since he popped into the thread.) It sounds like it's just AI dial spinning using the base G9 head and body morphs from the documentation, which isn't very useful for me. Maybe some will find it useful, but I'm definitely not their target market.
Yay
+ I appreciate the consideration to ethically train the model!
+ It shows promise as a fast and iterative art tool.
+ I don't know if there's anything else like it, especially that gives Daz-ready character rigging.
Nay
- The more iterative we are, the more it costs. People on a budget may need skillful prompt engineering.
- The cost of each diceroll may be prohibitive to use it casually for exploratory/experimental promptings.
Other
\ The plugin could eventually disrupt established character artists (as any ai tool could do). But it depends on the dev team improving the tool, and whether the artists could also adapt it into their workflow.
\ Would be wild to eventually see a (good) ai generator for clothes, hats, etc.
\ Would be cool to see morph2morph where you could send the plugin an existing figure morph as a basis.
\ Would be cool to see img2morph where you could send the plugin an existing reference image as a basis.
\ Yellow token discounts for Plus and Premier membership tiers (or even unlimited tokens) would help justify the existence of membership tiers.
The biggest potential I see today is being able to ask for a variety of character attributes and the tool quickly gets the figure into the ballpark. Then take the morph outside and sculpt it further. But sculpting from a base figure in Blender is the fun part. :)
It's also immediately useful for extras & background characters, eg to fill out a village or pirate ship, if you don't already have a huge asset library. Just generating tall/short/fat/thin and some common body shapes could get ya pretty far, then use paid morph assets to fine tune.
Imo it can't yet compete with the quality and value of the Daz Original and PA figures in the store. But you could also mix and match morphs and textures from those.
How can they justify that pricing model, if we can even call it that.
For me AI always needs iterations to get a desired result and I don't want to pay for scrap and I also don't want to pay while I learn how to speak to this AI.
The head and the body must be two separate morphs. I think it would even better if it would be two separate AI generators, one which can generate bodies and one which solely can generate head shapes.
I picked up the free tokens to have on hand, but it appears that I can't use it yet (4.23 only).
It's not going to replace what I use Face Transfer 2 for, but I could use a quick starter body shape. Yes, I have pretty much every morph set at the Daz store, and almost all of the human Daz Original characters, but getting a basic shape from a couple of sentences that could then be refined could be a useful thing.
I feel like this is step 1 to what should be a more fleshed out system, because currently the morphs on their own don't really impress me enough to consider buying tokens.
I do not buy any "normal humans" any more, I have more than I will ever need, I only buy unique characters, humans that stand out a lot or creatures of some kind.
Wouldn't it be more useful if you could load an existing character and use commands to modify the character?
"Make her 20 years older", "make her taller/shorter", "darken/lighten the complexion", "add/remove freckles", "give her a nice six-pack", etc.
I''l still like to see what "prompts" produce what results.
well, we get 10 free tokens to give it a quick ride. It might serve as a quicker way to create a morph than dial spinning..half the time I can't even find the dials as it is. I even have have DAZ morphs that I can't find. At least this might work plus it doesn;t really cost that much more, if at all, that a current charcter costs. You could potentially generate 260 character for $30 if your prompt skills are good.
Not sure I see the point of this service?
DAZ sells randomizing and shape mixing products.Including their own Mixer
For example:
https://www.daz3d.com/shapes-randomizer-for-genesis-9
https://www.daz3d.com/simtenero-randomizer2
https://www.daz3d.com/simtenero-randomizer
https://www.daz3d.com/shape-gen-plus-bundle-for-genesis-3-and-8
https://www.daz3d.com/character-mixer-version-2-for-genesis-8-and-9
https://www.daz3d.com/character-mixer-for-all-genesis-figures
https://www.daz3d.com/body-mixer-bundle-for-genesis-3-and-8-male-and-female
https://www.daz3d.com/shape-shift-bundle-for-genesis-8-female-s-and-male-s
It might be less of an instant nope for a lot of people if the tokens were only spent if you accepted what it offered.
I'll put out there right now that I am not a fan of AI. I would much rather go to an artist. That being said, there are a couple things I'm looking for that just aren't in the available library, and no amount of my own tweaking seems to be able to get what I'm after. I would be willing to use it for that. But not at this current casino-level slot machine nonsense.
I do have to wonder about how it says it's acceptable to put in celebrities, though, now that I think about it more. Like, which ones does it know? How much info does it understand. Because just as an example, Chris Hemsworth as Thor could give you VERY different morphs, depending on if you could tell it which Thor movie and have it understand you.
It's all about jumping on that AI train again. The free tokens are a bit intriguing for experimentation, but not worth buying them when you can just make your own morphs or even just use a randomizer. Any permament purchase is a better value than spending money on tokens that are quickly and easily consumed. And of course, it doesn't do anything non human (yet).
Absolutely agree. Those tokens are used up really quickly and easily-and with a new AI service, experimenting is encourged. 10 tokens is nothing for this kind of endeavor.
And I'm also against AI for many reasons. I'd rather support the PAs and use my own skills/imagination to create the morphs I want. And even with prompts I made, I had to morph them manually to get a look that even resembled my intent. At that point, it makes no sense to even use it. And that's compounded by the fact I am penalized to trying more prompts because I'll run out of tokens.
Anyway, I have that free Jungle Hut 2 to use for today.
Does it work with 4.13 or 4.22? I'm not in the mood to install a newer version of DAZ Studio.
4.23.x.x - though you could use the beta to avoid disturbing a general release (or back up your application and plug-in installers, update DS, then if you want to revert copy the old installers back into the DIM downloads folder and work offline to be able to install them over the newer version).
I guess I will have miss this train.
Random mixers are basically the opposite of what this product purports to provide.
to me its more about creating what "you" want, not just a random creation that may or may not meet the character desired. Random is cool if you don;t care what is created. At least it doesn't cost more to spin the wheel again in a randomize app once you buy it.
I was thinking of something exactly like that. We have a billion and a half different sliders, and sometimes going throuhg these is tedious. But would be great if you could take an existing PA and prompt things like, "Make this model a little bit taller, more athletic looking."
I dont sweat AI, because there are always people who dont want to put in the work and are satisfied with whatever they can get done easy. Hey stick figures are art. LOL, consequently if you want to improve your art some fundamentals are what you need not shiny new tools. Go to community college or use youtube and learn about lighing, color, composition, photography, ect. You will get more satisfying result and that is what matters. The road to perfections is impossible, just work towards getting better results. Just watch a child do some art and see how happy they are with their simple results and emulate them. Just my 2 cents
I'm warm to tools like this. One thing I'm curious about, though, is what ethical sourced means when the totality of the AI model is considered. For example, I've created a Nefertiti bust character using the plugin. It looks like Nefertiti to my eyes. How does it know what Nefertiti looks like? Granted, that's a bit of an ancient example.
This is just... not why I use this software. So it's not for me. It might be for some people. It's hard for me to imagine a purpose, except for the curiosity of seeing what it produces. I know every company right now wants to jump on AI bandwagons wherever they can, inventing products just for the sake of saying they are using AI, and coming up with ways to monetize it. I wish more would do the opposite. AI is anti-intelligence as far as I'm concerned.