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Ohhhhhhh Nooooooo! not the' what is art' debate again, nobody will ever win it, I tell ya! :)
Whether or not ANYTHING can be considered 'art' is really down to personal opinion, pride and snobbery.
Ask a Max/Maya/Blender artist (whos a bit of an elitist) and he will probably tell you Poser users aren't really artists.
Ask a photographer (whos a bit of an elitist) and he will probably tell you that 3d Artists aren't really artists.
Ask a painter (whos a bit of an elitist) and he will probably tell you that photographers aren't really an artists.
Ask an Art critic (whos a bit of an elitist) and he will probably tell you that the above painter isn't really an artist.
You get the picture....
What ever your artistic vice, so long as you are having fun with it, you dont need anyone elses approval.
Enjoy it with like minded people and forget about what everyone else thinks - find some other common ground with them instead.
I think you need new friends. :P
Kidding aside, others made it for others to use it. Others use it to make their own images. It is art, your own art, much the same war Star Wars is Lucas' own movie. Its kind of like photo-manip in the regards that you will usually go out and find stock and assemble it into a new work. But it is the work that is new and yours.
Tell them all to get a life. I've been drawing painting ect.. most of my life. Did some commercial art for a short time. Now I'm retired from a life that went a different way and I'm doing 3D art. All my friends and family are happy to see me doing ART again. What I do is art and you can tell them I said so.
Well said... I'm with you :cheese:
@ Revenger........... I'd like to know how your "Art Critique Friends" would go with rendering a decent artwork!
Now that I've read this thread... I'm feeling a little angered, perhaps cheated... I have an extensive art background, since the moment I got a set of crayons. I've studied digital media, 3d animation, visual arts, fine arts, sculpture, print, creative writing etc. etc. If your 'friends' don't believe 3d animation or images are under the category of creative art - then they have no knowledge of the very definition of ART! - If they are right, (Which I beg to differ!) then of every thing I've studied only Painting and Sketching is art, thus I would not know any better as I'm corrupted with so many non-art subjects.
Don't bother debating with the narrow perceptions of others, in the end we are what we make ourselves! And since you're here at daz, you are most likely a creative individual and someone who creates original work is in my opinion an artist... What an artist creates (With NO purpose of 'functionality' (The term 'functionality' refers to object or creation to be used for some practical purpose such as a fork or a chair)) IS ART!
...Art. A fellow I know with no arms and legs who hangs around on a wall.
Art is the act of putting items/objects/brushstrokes together to create a message you want to communicate to others(generally in a way that is either pleasing to the eye or in a way that deliberately jars(cause that's part of the message being communicated). Even if the message is simply look at this beautiful woman and the mood she evokes...
Sculptors use found materials...
Artists who use collage in their work use ready made materials...
Artists who paint buy their paint from a shop...
Quilt Artists use fabric....
Photographers use items from real life....
the list goes on.
If you look at any render of a particular model you will find that they all have differences. Some will contain a high order of originality, some will contain technical expertise with their use of shaders or lights, some will use colour in a way that takes you breath away.
None of them will be the exact same.
This is no different than traditional artists in galleries. You look at a Kandinsky and you mind is blown away by his brilliant use of colour. For originality you couldn't go past Salvador Dali. You look at the impressionests and you're blown away by their use of light in their works. Each new step/phase in art development you have naysayers who say that isn't art. The impressionests originally were told that's not true art...and had difficulty getting in to the French Gallery( I think it was called the academy, sorry not sure)
Don't let the naysayers get to you...it is their narrow conception of what art is that causes them to say what you are doing isn't art.
A friend is a precious thing, even more so if you're an artist and they aren't and you want somebody to keep your ego in check. I wouldn't change them for anything. However you can turn their argument around: is a clerk who uses Word/Excel author of their own work?
If you're fixing meshes in Carrara and changing textures, you're already at least a couple of steps ahead of the average DS/Poser user. I'll leave the "is it Art?" for another time, as I'm old-school and still think Aristotle got it right: Art is that which is learned, therefore very much like craft. I do not know any Art-form that doesn't require craft.
this is a joke - how many time are you people going to do this
you all ways say the same thing - nothing new
get a life
you like what you are doing
then do it
who cares what some body has said about your " ART "
LMAO! haha! good point! I do also think enough has been said lol I think we all just had to let of some steam haha!
Q: A blonde is walking down the street with a pig under her arm. She passes a person who asks "Where did you get that?"
A: The pig says, "I won her in a raffle!"
so it goes
I do not pretend to be a fine artist
I am a video producer
my Daz figures etc "actors"
clothing, "my wardrobe department"
I often make my own awful music but using a computer still.
but being a video producer still makes you an artist,
people who do still renders using models are like photographers and home decorators/interior designers etc, it is still art.
just not "fine art "
craft is not fine art either.
as the days go by
I think how lucky I am you are not here to ruin them for me
so it goes
fine " ART "
This is the perpetual debate. It's good thing governments are not established on the basis of this debate.
There are those who can not see and there are those who will try to tell you what to see. Difficulties arise when people with closed eyes try to tell you what to see.
My position? Of course it's art if the composition is put together artfully. Now, define "artfully". 8-o
Then again, art attracts it's own brand of groupie snobs to the successful but talentless and insecure icons who deride any perceived competitors.
I considered my ability to write beautiful computer program code in assembler languages an art. It is, because machine generated code lacks the finesse and elegant solution that I could give to a problem.
As the creator you can call anything you create, art if you think it is, but you will run into other opinions. However, don't get caught in the trap of art snobbery. You may make money by selling your "art" to others but rarely will your buyers have more talent than you. But consider what that says about them! Especially if you take a long hard look at yourself. 8-o
I both laugh and cringe whenever I see some formless catastrophe lauded over by self-important clueless snobs.
My favorite mental image of the art world is of the characters in the tale of "The Emperor's New Clothes". Somebody always has to play the Emperor & his court. There are more than enough scheming tailors. The world is full of sheepish villagers. But somebody will always eventually play the little naive, honest little boy yelling out that the Emperor is naked.
Funny. I work in Photoshop and designing, by myself, display views of vehicles with different paint jobs, logos, and graphics on them.
Pricing is so funny because some people say, "But the computer did everything."
I loath that.
I consider that an art as well and would love for them to try and pull photos into Photoshop and make all design changes, create all logos, and graphics themselves.
Funny. I work in Photoshop and designing, by myself, display views of vehicles with different paint jobs, logos, and graphics on them.
Pricing is so funny because some people say, "But the computer did everything."
I loath that.
I consider that an art as well and would love them to try and pull photos into Photoshop and make all design changes, create all logos, and graphics themselves.
Back in the early days of AC electricity Steinmetz was called in by General Electric to resolve a problem with a new power generator at Niagara Falls (I think). Here's the story:
"After studying alternating current for a number of years, Charles Steinmetz patented a "system of distribution by alternating current" (A/C power), on January 29, 1895.
Steinmetz retired as an engineer from General Electric to teach electrical engineering at that city's Union College in 1902. General Electric later called back as a consultant. He had worked on a very complex system that was broken. No one could fix it no matter how hard the technicians tried. So they got Steinmetz back. He traced the systems and found the malfunctioning part and marked it with a piece of chalk.
Charles Steinmetz submitted a bill for $10,000 dollar. The General Electric managers were taken back and asked for an itemized invoice.
He sent back the following invoice:
Making chalk mark $1
Knowing where to place it $9,999"
Quoted from:
http://inventors.about.com/od/astartinventions/a/Steinmetz.htm
Interesting photo including Steinmetz, Einstein, & Tesla
http://edisontechcenter.org/CharlesProteusSteinmetz.html#
Hahaha!
Now, that is awesome!
Thanks for that!
>hangs up the corpse of an exhumed equine< commence with the pummeling
now that is a good render
LX
lol thats a photo
It's a fairly safe bet that the very same folk saying stuff like this probably don't even realise just how much art is digital these days. They also want it to be the exclusive domain of an almost mythical type of studio "alchemist"... it is NEVER the domain of somebody they know.
Digital is "cheating" - If your renders turn out better than they can draw, then it's a blasphemy worthy of bitter contempt.
The problem is the ego of the antagonist... "If it wasn't for you cutting corners, your images would look as bad as mine". So to rubbish your work can be interpreted as an attempt to salve his/her teensy-weensy ego.
The ultimate irony for me is that there's a similar elitism among some 3D artists about post-working renders... it's not cheating, it's turning a render into a finished piece of work. ;)
Greetings,
I've been asked this; my argument is as others...the individual pieces are my crayons, the composition is greater than the sum of its parts.
But I do not consider myself a 3D artist. I am an illustrator, at best. I have images throbbing in my brain, which I've wanted to get out. I tried to learn to draw to get them into visible form, but time and muscle issues made that less than useful. DAZ Studio has made it possible for me to turn those mental images into illustrations that I can share. Imperfect, odd, sometimes morally questionable, but I can get them out of my head which helps.
So, here's my take. What you produce is more than the sum of the items you used to produce it, so feel free to entirely discard criticism based on your tools. Whether what you produce is 'art', however, is probably in the eyes of the viewer; my vague recollection is that whether something is art includes whether it elicits an emotional reaction, and that's purely subjective.
-- Morgan
It is art, but where things can get tricky is when intellectual claims are made on the art on how much of it is yours.
If you for example just did a quick render of Aiko 3 using presets and did no post work etc.. You most likely wouldn't be able to claim intellectual property on the finished product as someone could do the exact same thing who never even saw your render.
If you set up your own lights, do a good bit of postwork, etc. you may be able to claim intellectual property on it as it is unique and not something easily reproducible by anyone who may never have seen your finished post worked render.
How unique your image is is what is going to be the deciding factor in an intellectual claim.
But I'd say any render you did is your art, now if you have an intellectual claim on a finished render that can get tricky.
Very true. Well said. At least rotate the camera and get some intellectual claim:) Using everything as is without any tweaking/postwork is art, but not really intellectual.
I completely agree, my friend has gone into "silent mode" after reading this. lol. Oh and hey KyotoKid: Those are fantastic renders btw!
I guess I missed the e-mail someone else replied. Fantastic examples and points made here.
..thank you. That was actually a fairly early work but one I still like to consider as one of my best (and my favourite).
I guess in the end I like to consider myself more a visual storyteller than a 3D/CG artist.