Ribs morph for genesis 3 female
IsaacNewton
Posts: 1,300
I've been trying to make a ribs morph for the g3f. I'm not looking for an extreme anorexic look but skinny so you can see the lower ribs at least, as in the attached image.
I have tried using Zbrush but without much success: perhaps my morphing skills are insufficient or maybe the problem lies with the fact that we can only export/import gf3 to Zbrush as a base mesh, which just has too few polygons to perform detailed morphing. I know that there is a tool/plugin which DAZ3d make available to DAZ Product Artists which will allow export and correct import of gf3 in subdivided mode, which would allow such detailed work, but I am not a PA and don't intend to be. I don't want to sell the morph, just use it! Therefore, I am not allowed to play with this useful tool.
So, my question is: Does anyone know of a commercially available ribs morph for g3f? Or is it possible to add such detail as a weight map? I assume the weight map would need to be drawn directly onto the g3f mesh to be accurate. If so, what software is required for that (not too expensive I hope)?
Or are there any PA morphers out there who would consider making a "Ribs morph"?
Any comments or suggestions would be welcome.
Daz 3D is part of 
Connect
DAZ Productions, Inc.
7533 S Center View Ct #4664
West Jordan, UT 84084
Licensing Agreement | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | EULA
© 2025 Daz Productions Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Comments
There's something for V4 over at Renderosity. Look for I13
You might be able to convert the Morph from V4 to G3.
@BeeMKay &Isaac
Converting something from V4 wont net you better results than your Zbrush sculpting, because G3F has a much lower polycount than V4 so the details will be lost.
I tried both and none of them came close to looking good. The only way to make proper ribs for G2F/G3F is by making a displacement map. You can do this in Zbrush.
Unfortunately this is the same problem as with wishing to be able to morph muscle definition (not bulk - definition is simply to do with fat levels, and very skinny people with little muscle bulk can have very noticeabe muscle definition) either overall for physique or individually for movement/pose - the Genesis 3 figures have such a low definition mesh in torso and limbs (bar the actual joints) at base and the normal 1 subd level that there are not and can't be edge-loops following the contours of the major sub-skin features like the main surface muscles and bones, and one cannot morph any of those at base or normal hi-rez (level 1 subd) ... for the first DAZ human figures since Victoria 2 and the origina Aiko.
The only way to do it is either HD morphs, which as you say we non DAZ PAs can't do - or with normal maps (or bump or displacement, but normal would be better for this) - and personally I lack the skill to create detailed normal maps either.
Personally I also have the issue about wanting to do some rib definition, but in my case that is usually along with some muscle definition for various types of athletic physiques with varying real world typical fat levels producing varying degrees of muscle and rib definition coupled to widly varying levels of muscle bulk between sports. Marathon/long-distance runners, for example, tend to have very low fat, very definied muscles and ribs, but very little muscle bulk; while the Bodybuilder Details morph (without using the corresponding Bulk morph) for G2F is good for that kind of thing, the G3F one is useless by comparison as it is an SD morph and the edge-loops simply aren't there in the base and hirez-1-sbd mesh to let any SD morph give muscle and rib definition. And all the HD morphs that give muscle definition couple it with muscle bulk so definition and bulk go together and the only highly defined character one can do is a contest-ready bodybuilder ... and the only people who look like bodybuilders are bodybuilders, not marathon runners, MMA fighters, hept-/pent-/decathletes etc. On G2F I can get any type of atheltic physique i want, on G3F ... not so much.
I will point out that you MIGHT be lucky and get what you want from one of the -7 DAZ female figures (like Victoria 7, Gia 7, Eva 7 and all the rest of those DAZ -7s). Each one comes with a set of normal maps, and also has am HD morph add-on. With several of them - Gia 7 and Eva 7, for instance - the normal maps provide varying amounts of rib definition... although you can't get JUST the rib definition, it has to be with whatever else is on the normal map or HD morph like some muscle definition on the abs etc too. Do notice that you can use any one of the -HD addon morphs with a DIFFERENT main morphing of the figure - e.g. you can dial up the Eva 7 HD morph when you are NOT using the actual Eva 7 morph but V7 or aome custom character morph. And note that you can ALSO use one set's normal maps with any other character. While the Gia 7 normal maps, for example, as supplied will only work properly with texture sets that use the Gia 7 UV, DS's Map Transfer function will convert them to any other UV in just a couple of seconds. First thing I did after getting Gia 7 was use Map Transfer in DS to create conversions of the Gia7 normal maps to the G3F Base UVs, so I can get the (not as good as the Gia 6) Gia 7 normal map added muscle and rib definition when using G3F Baase female UV character materials. Frankly, getting Map Transfer to create conversions of the different base -7 figures' normal maps to the UVs of the other only takes seconds per conversion, greatly enhances the variety available to you, is a very cheap alternative to buying the HD-morphs (which are quite expensive, whereas the normal maps just come fwith each -7 figure), and if you set Map Transfer to maximum resolution for the conversions ... well, I've done close up renders on just a plain grey, untextured G2F and G3F, solely for the puprose of minutely comparing using the original normal map and UV with the converted map and the Uv converted to, and I've never been able to see a pixel difference. So, with the note that you need to spend a few seconds making conversions to the other UVs of each set of normal maps (only once - not each time you're going to use them) using a tool that is in DS itself, the assorted -7 normal maps are actually just as UV independent as the HD-morphs .... and produce almost exactly the same effect in the renders as the corresponding HD morphs.
So, you may find that for a particular need you have either one of the HD morphs or the normal maps from one of the -7 base DAZ figures (converted with Map Transfer as necessary depending on what UV the texture set you are using is for) MAY happen to give you the rib detail you want without too much of some other surface details you don't want. Have a close look at those you have, and a very close look at the promo images on the store pages for the -7 DAZ figures you don't and their HD add-ons, and realise that the normal maps and HD add-ons in all of those can all be used with any G3F character you want to use, whether a 'character' from a PA or one you've mixed up yourself from basic and assorted character morphs and materials. For the HD morphs, just dial them; for the normal maps just check what UV the textures you are using are, get Map Transfer to make conversions of whichever Normal Maps you want to use to that UV if you haven't done that conversion before, then apply the 4 normal maps to Template 1, 2, 3 and 4 in the Surfaces pane.
You may be lucky. I wasn't, and while mixing assorted HD morphs and normal maps lets me create a number of different combinations of muscle bulk and muscle-and-rib-and-other-bones definition (with that latter actually basically just being fat level in different parts of the body), it is a limited range of discrete combinations which doesn't actually include any of the ones I want.
HD morphs also, from my POV, have a third disadvantage alongside (i) the one you need may not exist to buy, and (ii) if you're not a PA with access to the 'HD morph tool' (actually AIUI simply a version of Morphloader that can handle importing morphs onto a figure at subd levels above 1 you cannot do anything about that like make your own, or aadapt/correct a bought one; and that is that (iii) I find that some of the morphing one needs for muscle, rib etc definition of a low fat character needs not just lvl2 but also lvl3 and even lvl4 HD morphs, and they really kill my computer on render: not only does the render take 10, even 20 times longer than exactly the same but with the HD morph off, but it locks my computer up solid, no input response, while doing it, unlike normal renders where I can e.g browse while it's rendering. And this can be having to use a high lvl HD morph for a render that's not right up close, no pore level detail or whatnot visible, but just to get a compartively coarse subsurface muscle or bone definition that on every female DAZ figure from the original Stephanie (the first unimesh: Michael 2's mesh reshaped to Victoria 2's shape and with V2's rig, because the M2 mesh topography had edgeloops outlining the main subsurface muscles so muscle definition could be morphed and so now it could be with original Stepahnie, but V2's didn't have that topolgy so she couldn't have that detail morphed on her standard mesh - the last DAZ figure that was true of before G3F) through V3, S3, V4, Genesis to G2F can be done simply with an SD morph. Frankly, having high lvl HD morphs have such a price on rendering in terms of time and computer resources, if I were to use G3F I would now use normal map details in preference to HD mmorphs wherever possible, and this mollified my annoyance - indeed anger - that my favorite G2F DAZ -6 base character body morph, Gia 6, was the one G2F DAZ -6 base figure for which they never released an HD add-on.
So, look at the DAZ base -7 Hd Morphs and Normal maps and you might be lucky. Or you could choose the solution I have. Use G2F instead. You can get the whole gamut of muscle and rib etc definitions with normal SD morphs, and the morphs exist (there are at least a couple of specifically and only rib definition morphs available for G2F, plus several others for egenesis and V4 that can be easily converted to G2F either with genX2 or just DS's built in Transfer utility).
For myself - I've always previously immediately migrated to DAZ's latest figure, but not with G3F. I've repeatedly undertaken detailed comparisons of G3F with G2F, and against my better judgement spent (or more accuratey wasted) money on buying every product, morph set, -7 base character with likely looking normal maps etc to see if they'd help and redoing the comparison tests again each time, but it still remians that for me G2F beats G3F handily in 4 out of the 5 criteria I have for which figure to use for what i want to do in DS (and the one 'win' for g3F is actually a theoretical win rather than a practical one), with one of those 4 wins for G2F being the mesh topology and the way it sllows SD morphing (and morph adjusting/adapting/correcting by a non-DAZ-PA user) of details like ribs and muscle definition as against requiring HD morphing for even basic, coarse detailing when often the HD morphs one needs doen't exist, one can't create them oneself or adjust/correct/adapt them where they kind-of exist, and even where exactly what one needs exists it has a humungous price in render time and locking up my laptop.
(For the record, the other criteria are: (1) The ability of G2F to use texture sets for all the G2F UVs, and the Genesis Female UVs AND the V4 UVs, and even more the ability of G2M to use all the G2M UVs Genesis Male UVs And the M4 UVs means that for female and especially male characters i have a huge range of texture sets that covers any different character I want or might want; for G3F and especially G3M the current selection and variety is tiny - plus I'm not seeing anything fundamentally better about the quality of the G3F sets over the G2F one as pertains to the results in a render, and in fact I find the way the Genesis 3 ones have been laid out actually gives noticeably WORSE deatailing in some areas; 'industry standard pipelines' to other apps and whatnot mean nothing to me as I only use DS. (2) G3F bends a bit better than base G2F ... OK. In repeated side-by-side testing, however, G2F WITH THE BEAUTIFUL BENDS AND IDEAL BEAUTY PRODUCTS - which I already had bought long before G3F appeared - with the bequtiful bends JCMs and MCMs applied to some joints, the Ideal Beauty ones to the others actually doesn't just bend as well as G3F, it bends better. Side-by-side, and especially with my morphed characters, but just the base shapes too, knees, elbows, thighs, shoulders, ankles and abdomen don't juat bend better but a lot better and more realistically in G2F with those products than they do in G3F, and all the other bends bend either at least as well or better too, if not so dramatically better. (3) I will confess there may be some ignorance here, but so far I have found Triax weightmapping hugely superior to General dual-whatever weightmapping. Until recently I only knew old Poser MAT sphere type rigging, finding my self in need of a particular type of trouser for G2F that also needed very good thigh side-to-side bending, and all the ones of the right type bending badly in that respect, i managed to figure out - especially with the help of looking at some trousers that were wrong in other ways but good in the thigh side-to-side - how triax weightmapping worked and to re-weight the problem bends on the trousers. Finding the same situation with G3F i had a look at the corresponding problem with the General dual quaternian system ... and as far as I can see it stinks - and I don't think it's just me because unlike with the G2F ones I couldn't find a single trouser, whether otherwise of the right type or not, that bended well in thigh side-to-side, not even trousers by the PAs who had made the ones that bent well in that way for G2F, so if they can't do it either I don't think it's just me. I mean ... Triax, on each joint there's a weightmap for each axis, plus two bulge maps per main map: really comprehensive and one can weight things perfectly for each bend on each joint; General there's ONE map per joint and no bulge maps, so there's e.g. TWO separate joints for the thigh, one for bend, one for twist, and no map for side-to-side at all. How is that better? As far as I can see, basically one has to resort to JCMs - which is mad. The whole big thing about the move from Poser Mat spheres and capsules to weightmapping was that we oculd dispense with the ever increasing escalation of JCMs and actually just rig the joints accurately even in complex situations without JCMs - but now tha's being dropped and we appear to be taking not a step but a leap backwards into something as bad and over-simplistic as old-style Poser. It's ... nuts. And presumably for some 'industry standard pipeline' reason that again means nothing to me - I just want the best performance for doing things in DS. So, for me G2F beats G3F soundly on the four criteria: (i) Texturing - the massive variety and choice of textures made for 3 main generations of figures avaialble for the Genesis 2 figures as against the small selection for G3F and the miniscule choices for G3M; (ii) Bending - the Genesis 2 figures with their bend improvement products still bend bettet (and with much more detail, too, which was put into those bend improvement procuts) than the Genesis 3 figures; (iii) mesh resolution and topology of the torao and limbs - the Genesis 2 figures share with the predecessor figures back to original Staphanie and the Millenium 3 figures edge-loops round the major-subsurface features of the body such as surface muscles and some bones, allowing SD morphs to morph definition, rather than requiring HD morphs that often don't exist (like a simple functional equivalent to the Bodybuilder Details morph on Genesis and G2F/M, which would have to be HD but neither DAz nor a PA have made it), can't be created.adjusted/adapted by ordinary users who are not DAZ PAs, and even when they do exist take a huge toll in render time and computer resources even when one ony wants a coarse detail at a disatnce that every prior generation could do with SD; (iv) rigging - the G3F dual-quaternain bending is a big step back from the capabilities of Triax. The one criterion I said the Genesis 3 figures win on theoretically if not practically? That woould be (v) the facial rigging, where the genesis 3 riggibg at least theoretically allows a better range of expressions without having to sculpt a cuatom morph for the expression in a modeller ... but 'theoretically but not practically' because I already have a massive range of Genesis 2 expression products, some dial presets, many substantial collections of new morphs someone else has already sculpted in a modeller, which cover pretty much everything I can think of, adn I haven't actually noticed any Genesis 3 expression products have expressions in that have made me think 'woe, that's an expression i want to use and I couldn't get that on G2f/M (and I've seen as high a proportion of Genesis 3 expression products that are full of ugly, non-realistic and/or cartoonish expressions as I have with the Genesis 2 ones). So, genesis 2 beats Genesis 3 by 4 to 1, and the 1 not actually being a practicl victory either.)
As far as I can see, Genesis 3 was created with a priority of being suitable for 'industry' users, and so changing e.g. rigging system and UV aspects - and possibly the poor topology of the torso and limbs, I suppose - to fit in with transfer to other 'industry' software and whatever they use for figures. And that priority was above functionality in DS for people who only use DS, and did indeed mean producing a generation of figures - Genesis 3 - which are actually very noticeably inferior to the preceding generation - Genesis 2 - that were only made with functionality in DS in mind as a priority. Oh, and making the male and female figures have a mesh that isn't vertex compatible for the first time since Stephanie/M2 and then the Millenium 3 and onwards figures appeared, abandining the separate male/female V1/M1 and V2/M2 mesh dichotomy... meaning people actually can't just buy a morph pack for one sex and transfer it to the other, or notice that the morphs in the separate male and female packs they bought are actually exactly the same any more.
Wow, DavidGB, I've never had such a long reply before. Your arguments that in some (if not many or even most) ways G3f is a step backwards over G2f do resonate with me somewhat. However, I do like the improved joint bending in G3f (still a long way to go though DAZ!).
I suppose I will have to try the weightmap approach since we non-PAs are not allowed access to the full potential of HD morphs. However, part of me asks... if weight mapping details was such an easy alternative to making HD morphs (for those allowed to do so), then why don't we see more such products in the DAZ shop. I would think DAZ3d would sell an "own brand" pack of weight mapped body details such as defined muscles, ribs and other bony bits, unless doing so would be undue competition for the HD PA artists. Perhaps there are commercial considerations as well as technical ones.
In another thread, I discuss the advantages of introducing a Morph Brush Tool to DS (as is present in many other 3d packages). The morph brush could be used on a figure at very high mesh resolution within DS and so open the possibility of creating our own HD specialty morphs. Hmmm.. again there may be commercial reasons for not introducing such a tool.
Not weightmapping...weightmapping is specifcally for tying the skeleton to the skin. It's what controls how the joints interact.
You are looking at normal mapping...and if you can sculpt what you want in Zbrush, you should be able to bake out the appropriate normal maps.
Hi mjc1016. So, I if I understand correctly, I can export my g3f character to Zbrush and then make the mesh high resolution and then make my rib morphs. Then create a normal map in Zbrush which I can then apply to G3f back in DS. Is that the way it works? I have a lot of questions about this process, for example do I need to return the model to the original mesh resolution before creating the normal map? What is the procedure for making the normal map?
Do you know of a tutorial that shows how to do this? Or can you make one?
If this works then it sounds like making HD morphs for the g3f figure will be unnecessary. Are there limits to what can be done by this method?
Yes, that's basically it, but because it's a map instead of a morph there are limits as to what can be done...like it doesn't change with poses...
I use Blender so the process isn't the same...in Blender you can do a multi-res bake, so no you don't need the low poly mesh (you can also do a hi to low and for that one, yes you do need the low poly mesh).
There's a ton of tutorials for zbrush around, but since I don't use it, I'm not sure what the good ones are...
http://polycount.com/discussion/72460/zbrush-baking-normal-map-from-highpoly-to-lowpoly (this is a very basic rundown)
There are several around here that do use zbrush this way and hopefully will chime in.
I did a quick search on the internet and found an excellent, simple and to the point video tutorial by SickleYield called "Normal Maps Zbrush to Daz Studio Genesis 3 Female".
SickleYield takes you through all the important steps in making a HD morph in Zbrush on g3f and then baking it into a set of normal maps (note Zbrush will export all the g3f normal maps at one mouse click).
One important point. I noticed that under the menu Zplugin:Multi Map Exporter, SickleYield has the "vflip" option checked and when she shows the normal maps they are the correct way around (the ears on the face map are at the top). When I did that, I found that the normal maps were flipped vertically so the ears on the face map, for example, were at the bottom. When I unchecked the "vflip" option then Zbrush exported the normal maps the correct way up (ears at the top).
I don't know if this is a version difference issue or if I, or SickleYield, have another parameter switch somewhere which is different and is overriding the normal map orientation. I did use the GoZ approach rather than importing g3f as an object separately from DS 4.9, so maybe this already takes into account that the normal maps have to be flipped.
In any case this is an easy thing to check and change if necessary. Thanks SickleYield for a clear tutorial.
Perhaps one other piece of advice; make the HD morphs which you intend to export as normal maps quite bold (i.e. relatively large normal extension, so it stands out from the surface). DS4.9 does give the option to vary the intensity of application of the normal map between 0% to 200% but I find the results at 100% rather subtle. If you do over do the morph, you can always turn the normal map intensity down.
Did you ever get this to work?
Shape Shift has ribs adjustment, but it expands and contracts without making visible ribs.
Yes GoZ will set to flip the maps for you. It's why you can export them without the vflip option.
Yup. I don't use GoZ so that's probably it.