Get Your Encrypted Daz Connect Content Here Thread - none at the moment 2018-01-30

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  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,943
    Kerya said:
    nicstt said:
    Havos said:
    Kerya said:
    pds said:
    ...

    On a related topic, there was a thread a while back in which people were asked to share their "immediate-buy" vendors. I wonder how many of them would continue to view their favorite vendors' latest products as "immediate-buy" if they were only available as Encrypted Daz Connect products? How many top tier PAs would risk their income by jumping on board the EDC train? I suspect there are folks working in Daz's marketing department who would love to know the answers to such questions...

     

    As Mattymanx is the first PA to try that route I am sure his car (shiny it is!) is watched closely by Daz.

    Since What's Hot has been broken for a number of days, the rest of us have no idea how well this first non-DO DRM product sold.

    That's a convenient time for it to break. cheeky

    It might be deliberately broken because of the wave of "new old" Runtimedna products at an interesting sale price.

    I don't think Daz wants V4 content in the What's hot ...

    Not deliberate, the Men in Black are investigating and will patch your mem...the site in due course.

    They patched it too often ... I forgot ... what? ... was there something?

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,902
    pds said:

    I agree with a lot of what others have stated regarding issues/concerns about DRM (and to an extent, Daz Connect as well) and have so far avoided knowingly purchasing a DRM'd product through the store.

    With that said, Mattymanx, the apparent quality and effort that went into creating your new car really makes me want to take a chance on an Encrypted Daz Connect product for the first time and support a talented artist--in spite of my misgivings about DRM and Daz Connect in general. I suppose some may view that as being hypocritical, but I also respect your right to want to protect your hard work. I just wish there was a better way to do so that didn't encumber legitimate purchasers.

    Decisions, decisions.

    On a related topic, there was a thread a while back in which people were asked to share their "immediate-buy" vendors. I wonder how many of them would continue to view their favorite vendors' latest products as "immediate-buy" if they were only available as Encrypted Daz Connect products? How many top tier PAs would risk their income by jumping on board the EDC train? I suspect there are folks working in Daz's marketing department who would love to know the answers to such questions...


    Thank you for your kind words (and everyone else too)  It would be very nice if we could fine a happy medium where everyone could agree with the solution to both protect our work and still provide as best as possible to the customer.

     

    As Mattymanx is the first PA to try that route I am sure his car (shiny it is!) is watched closely by Daz.

     

    I heard that Daz_Steve is often seen looking at is reflection and chekcing his hair.

     

    hphoenix said:

    Btw, Mattymanx......I do like the llamaghini.....though I must admit I rarely find much use for the exotics/supercars in my rendering.  More useful to me would be a more 'generic' car with varied morphs so that it could 'become' other cars.  A subcompact.  A sport sedan.  A sports car.  An exotic.  A muscle car.  And more.  A few 'pieces' that can be turned on and off (like spoilers, air dams, scoops, ground effects, etc.) and a variety of textures/shaders to give it both pristine and 'used' appearance.

    Now THAT would be worth a good price!  Might even tempt me to buy encrypted.....oh, wait.  Still on 4.8.  Damn.  Well, hopefully such a product would be available on DIM......

     

    We have all bought products that we have not yet used.  As great as your idea sounds, your asking for a vehicle that can is a 5-in-1 car.  I honestly cannot see how that would be done and done right.  Also, I cannot see it being finacially feasable for the PA who does it.

     

  • hphoenix said:
     

    It is my personal opinion that DAZ made a mistake with the whole DAZ Connect implementation.  Instead of creating a whole new system of content organization, they should have established a standard, and implemented a utility to convert existing (on-disk) products to use that standard.  With that, optimizing the DB usage and interaction becomes much simpler, rather than complicating it with trying to make code and DB use THREE different standards (DS, Connect, and Poser), none of which are particularly firm.  Then the pre-4.9 smart-content implementation would have been much more usable and extensible.  But they have now committed to the whole idea (both Connect and the Encrypted content), and NO amount of arguing or rational debate will change this.  Very few businesses will admit to being wrong about decisions like this.....

     

     

     

    My feeling here is that they probably could have done this, but chose noy to because of folks that had both DAZ Studio and Poser on the same machine.

    Kerya said:
    Kerya said:
    nicstt said:
    Havos said:
    Kerya said:
    pds said:
    ...

    On a related topic, there was a thread a while back in which people were asked to share their "immediate-buy" vendors. I wonder how many of them would continue to view their favorite vendors' latest products as "immediate-buy" if they were only available as Encrypted Daz Connect products? How many top tier PAs would risk their income by jumping on board the EDC train? I suspect there are folks working in Daz's marketing department who would love to know the answers to such questions...

     

    As Mattymanx is the first PA to try that route I am sure his car (shiny it is!) is watched closely by Daz.

    Since What's Hot has been broken for a number of days, the rest of us have no idea how well this first non-DO DRM product sold.

    That's a convenient time for it to break. cheeky

    It might be deliberately broken because of the wave of "new old" Runtimedna products at an interesting sale price.

    I don't think Daz wants V4 content in the What's hot ...

    Not deliberate, the Men in Black are investigating and will patch your mem...the site in due course.

    They patched it too often ... I forgot ... what? ... was there something?

    "Men in Black; they won't let you remember."

  • hphoenixhphoenix Posts: 1,335
    edited July 2016
    Mattymanx said:
    pds said:
    Btw, Mattymanx......I do like the llamaghini.....though I must admit I rarely find much use for the exotics/supercars in my rendering.  More useful to me would be a more 'generic' car with varied morphs so that it could 'become' other cars.  A subcompact.  A sport sedan.  A sports car.  An exotic.  A muscle car.  And more.  A few 'pieces' that can be turned on and off (like spoilers, air dams, scoops, ground effects, etc.) and a variety of textures/shaders to give it both pristine and 'used' appearance.
    hphoenix said:

    Now THAT would be worth a good price!  Might even tempt me to buy encrypted.....oh, wait.  Still on 4.8.  Damn.  Well, hopefully such a product would be available on DIM......

     

    We have all bought products that we have not yet used.  As great as your idea sounds, your asking for a vehicle that can is a 5-in-1 car.  I honestly cannot see how that would be done and done right.  Also, I cannot see it being finacially feasable for the PA who does it.

     

    I have to disagree about the feasibility.  Character artists create morphs to adjust bits and pieces dramatically or subtlely, and the same CAN be done for a basic/generic automobile.  Morphs like 'grill pointed', 'hood curve', 'wheelbase', 'windshield wrap', and more are not THAT out of line or difficult.  It would be more difficult than just creating a good specific automotive model.....but this would be a more 'generic' auto to begin with.  Geografts could be used for 'attachments' like airdams, spoilers and ground effects.  No argument that such a vehicle (done correctly) would be pretty pricey, but I don't see the feasibility being any more difficult than a good detailed original figure.

    (yes, I know custom rigging and modelling an original figure is a rather large undertaking.  I'm just saying it's about the same level of effort.)

    The hard part is the initial design of the mesh that would support all the morphs, without being ungodly high-poly.

    Post edited by hphoenix on
  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,008
    Mattymanx said:

    Thank you for your kind words (and everyone else too)  It would be very nice if we could fine a happy medium where everyone could agree with the solution to both protect our work and still provide as best as possible to the customer.

    One problem is that there is deep division on the protection DRM provides. Many of us believe that DRM absolutely does not provide any protection and, in fact, only punishes legitimate users.

    The 'one year expiration' is about as close to a happy medium as you can get, since if you refuse to use DRM, at worst you simply buy it later; it's not like there aren't hundreds of products to catch up with already.

    So DRM-refusers face the mild inconvenience of not impulse buying, and if DRM discourages sales, the only people standing to lose are the PAs. And assuming they volunteer for DRM, well, that's fair; they take the risk on themselves.

    If DRM did work, well, this also works because most piracy and lost sales are only critical within the first year (my initial proposal was more like a few months, but whatever). After that, hey, any 'lost sales' due to piracy (if you believe that) are minor at best.

    Also, one year auto expiry solves the 'what if Daz goes out of business' issue.

     

    I'm so smart. ;)

     

     

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,902
    hphoenix said:

    I have to disagree about the feasibility.  Character artists create morphs to adjust bits and pieces dramatically or subtlely, and the same CAN be done for a basic/generic automobile.  Morphs like 'grill pointed', 'hood curve', 'wheelbase', 'windshield wrap', and more are not THAT out of line or difficult.  It would be more difficult than just creating a good specific automotive model.....but this would be a more 'generic' auto to begin with.  Geografts could be used for 'attachments' like airdams, spoilers and ground effects.  No argument that such a vehicle (done correctly) would be pretty pricey, but I don't see the feasibility being any more difficult than a good detailed original figure.

    (yes, I know custom rigging and modelling an original figure is a rather large undertaking.  I'm just saying it's about the same level of effort.)

    The hard part is the initial design of the mesh that would support all the morphs, without being ungodly high-poly.

     

    Here is the main problem I see with the idea.  Any character morph in order to work must maintain the exact same number of polygons as the base mesh.  So the entire vehicle would need to be able to change shape without adding or removing polygons.  For a mesh of a human its easier to do since most of the mesh is one large piece.  For vehicles though, we're talking hundreds of pieces even for a basic vehicle.  Even if the HD morph tech was used to help compensate which would allow for more diverse morphs across the vehicle, the problem with HD morphs is that it will not just subdivide one or two parts of the mesh but the whole thing so its adding extra polys where none are needed.  Geografts represent in issue in this case cause they have to match the UV of the part they are attaching too AND if that part has a morph in it, it further complicates the issue.  And then there is the rigging.  Getting all the parts to function correctly with the different morphs applied would be something else all together.

     

    I dont want to discourage you if its something you would like to tackle in your spare time but keep in mind that as you build a vehicle, or any product for that matter, you need to be able to think 5-7 steps ahead.  Building something like a car is like creating a puzzle.  You know what the end product should look like but the problem is you have to make each puzzle piece one at at time and make sure they all fit together in the end.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,008

    Or use Greebles and build something crazy. ;)

     

  • hphoenixhphoenix Posts: 1,335
    Mattymanx said:
    hphoenix said:

    I have to disagree about the feasibility.  Character artists create morphs to adjust bits and pieces dramatically or subtlely, and the same CAN be done for a basic/generic automobile.  Morphs like 'grill pointed', 'hood curve', 'wheelbase', 'windshield wrap', and more are not THAT out of line or difficult.  It would be more difficult than just creating a good specific automotive model.....but this would be a more 'generic' auto to begin with.  Geografts could be used for 'attachments' like airdams, spoilers and ground effects.  No argument that such a vehicle (done correctly) would be pretty pricey, but I don't see the feasibility being any more difficult than a good detailed original figure.

    (yes, I know custom rigging and modelling an original figure is a rather large undertaking.  I'm just saying it's about the same level of effort.)

    The hard part is the initial design of the mesh that would support all the morphs, without being ungodly high-poly.

     

    Here is the main problem I see with the idea.  Any character morph in order to work must maintain the exact same number of polygons as the base mesh.  So the entire vehicle would need to be able to change shape without adding or removing polygons.  For a mesh of a human its easier to do since most of the mesh is one large piece.  For vehicles though, we're talking hundreds of pieces even for a basic vehicle.  Even if the HD morph tech was used to help compensate which would allow for more diverse morphs across the vehicle, the problem with HD morphs is that it will not just subdivide one or two parts of the mesh but the whole thing so its adding extra polys where none are needed.  Geografts represent in issue in this case cause they have to match the UV of the part they are attaching too AND if that part has a morph in it, it further complicates the issue.  And then there is the rigging.  Getting all the parts to function correctly with the different morphs applied would be something else all together.

     

    I dont want to discourage you if its something you would like to tackle in your spare time but keep in mind that as you build a vehicle, or any product for that matter, you need to be able to think 5-7 steps ahead.  Building something like a car is like creating a puzzle.  You know what the end product should look like but the problem is you have to make each puzzle piece one at at time and make sure they all fit together in the end.

    No, trust me, I do understand.  I've been modelling and rendering in 3D since back in the 1980s.  While I'm not a DS/Poser guru (yet), and don't know all the gotchas concerning geografts, ERC, or some of the other particulars of this particular niche, I DO comprehend the thinking ahead.  Which is why I mentioned how important the base mesh design would be.

     

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,943
    Mattymanx said:
     

     

    As Mattymanx is the first PA to try that route I am sure his car (shiny it is!) is watched closely by Daz.

     

    I heard that Daz_Steve is often seen looking at is reflection and chekcing his hair.

     

    *giggles* 

    Thanks for not loosing your sense of humour!

  • TheKDTheKD Posts: 2,691

    I was disapointed to see the llamaghini was DRM. Maybe I will buy it in a year, who knows. A lot can happen between now and then.

  • argel1200argel1200 Posts: 758
    edited July 2016

    Any chance the OP could be updated to list the tiles by release date? Easier to see what is close to hitting that one year mark and what was just added.

    Post edited by argel1200 on
  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,943

    First post has two lists now ...

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    Kerya said:

    First post has two lists now ...

    Nice job on that.

  • Charlie JudgeCharlie Judge Posts: 12,724

    Although the female version wasn't encrypted, it looks like the male one is encrypted only: http://www.daz3d.com/additional-blood-layers-for-genesis-3-male-s

  • NathNath Posts: 2,798

    Yeah, I saw that - ah well, it'll still be useful to buy in a year's time (unless the UV-swap product thingy and the female version work on M7 - I don't have either yet, but they're both wishlisted).

  • Charlie JudgeCharlie Judge Posts: 12,724

    Also Fight like a Girl Poses is encrypted only: http://www.daz3d.com/fight-like-a-girl-poses-for-aiko-7

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,943

    Both added to the lists in the first post. Is Release Date: 2016-07-17 correct?

    I am in a different time zone and readme's are not yet up ...

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479

    Although the female version wasn't encrypted, it looks like the male one is encrypted only: http://www.daz3d.com/additional-blood-layers-for-genesis-3-male-s

    Interesting. Between all the vocal customers who refuse to buy Encrypted Daz Connect products, and the "male products don't sell" issue, it seems odd to me to release the male version of Additional Blood Layers as an EDC product. I wonder if this was by mistake...

  • lx_2807502lx_2807502 Posts: 2,996
    Kerya said:

    Both added to the lists in the first post. Is Release Date: 2016-07-17 correct?

    I am in a different time zone and readme's are not yet up ...

    Yup it's the 17th. Release date should be whatever "tomorrow" you're just reaching is, or if you're European or further east, what day it already is.

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,943
    lx said:
    Kerya said:

    Both added to the lists in the first post. Is Release Date: 2016-07-17 correct?

    I am in a different time zone and readme's are not yet up ...

    Yup it's the 17th. Release date should be whatever "tomorrow" you're just reaching is, or if you're European or further east, what day it already is.

    In principle ... it is easy. In principle. But we are talking about Daz3d ... LOL

  • MadbatMadbat Posts: 382

    I hate encrypted content. I won't buy it..at all. 

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,943
    Madbat said:

    I hate encrypted content. I won't buy it..at all. 

    Oh well ... when it is free I AM adding it to my cart. And will download in a year or so ...

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    edited July 2016
    Kerya said:
    lx said:
    Kerya said:

    Both added to the lists in the first post. Is Release Date: 2016-07-17 correct?

    I am in a different time zone and readme's are not yet up ...

    Yup it's the 17th. Release date should be whatever "tomorrow" you're just reaching is, or if you're European or further east, what day it already is.

    In principle ... it is easy. In principle. But we are talking about Daz3d ... LOL

    Doesn't matter. DRM products are still DRM products. If you have issues, you will get locked out.

    Kerya said:
    Madbat said:

    I hate encrypted content. I won't buy it..at all. 

    Oh well ... when it is free I AM adding it to my cart. And will download in a year or so ...


    I added a couple to my wishlist, but removed 'em. Generation items, a year down the line, I am much less likely to need, and they'll be there if I do.

    Post edited by nicstt on
  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,943
    nicstt said:
    Kerya said:
    lx said:
    Kerya said:

    Both added to the lists in the first post. Is Release Date: 2016-07-17 correct?

    I am in a different time zone and readme's are not yet up ...

    Yup it's the 17th. Release date should be whatever "tomorrow" you're just reaching is, or if you're European or further east, what day it already is.

    In principle ... it is easy. In principle. But we are talking about Daz3d ... LOL

    Doesn't matter. DRM products are still DRM products. If you have issues, you will get locked out.

    That's why there is a "Sort by release date" list - after one year the things should become unencrypted and downloadable as zips via DIM ...

  • Madbat said:

    I hate encrypted content. I won't buy it..at all. 

    Same here, even after it's been unencrypted after a year.

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    edited July 2016

    I love the products here at daz. But not enough to invest my money into encrypted products. Sorry Daz and PA's I know your just trying to protect your content you sell. But your putting the  burden of " foe security" on the back of the customer that purchase the products that require us to break the product down and reload it unencrypted if we need to edit it for an animation or other projects .    and the pirates just keep doing business as usually.   Dear Pa's I feel ya.  But even free encrypted products that are unencrypted a year later just are not enough incentive to purchase.   Anyway because the stuff I use has become more and more limited because I do not use or buy Genesis 3 items ,  when I see props and environments I can use I usually buy them.  I almost bought a sport car here not long ago until i seen it was encrypted only.. A real shame because it was my determining factor in not buying it. I hope you guys keep that in mind when you ask daz to encrypt your products.

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • L'Adair said:

    Although the female version wasn't encrypted, it looks like the male one is encrypted only: http://www.daz3d.com/additional-blood-layers-for-genesis-3-male-s

    Interesting. Between all the vocal customers who refuse to buy Encrypted Daz Connect products, and the "male products don't sell" issue, it seems odd to me to release the male version of Additional Blood Layers as an EDC product. I wonder if this was by mistake...

    I hadn't pushed the button to buy the female yet, so when I saw that the male version was encrypted, I dumped it. DAZ lost two sales there.

  • mambanegramambanegra Posts: 580

    Wow! They are really starting to roll this out. Gotta start looking more carefully at these product listings before purchasing. No more load stuff into cart and go (though, I quit doing that some time ago, since I missed a few deals that didn't start until later in the day). 

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,902

    Although the female version wasn't encrypted, it looks like the male one is encrypted only: http://www.daz3d.com/additional-blood-layers-for-genesis-3-male-s

    This has been reported to Daz since we dont know if it was meant to be or not.

  • N-RArtsN-RArts Posts: 1,496

    I bought the female version of the Addition Blood Layers and I'm now peeved that the male version is encrypted...

    If it's meant to be encrypted, you've lost a sale from me too. :(

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