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Not being in the workflow isn't that good a determinant. Carrara dropped ignominiously from my workflow two operating system upgrades ago. And as you point out, development is still going on.
I look at it this way: Carrara stumbled. Hard. Scraped the crap out of both knees and an elbow, and twisted an ankle. Now it's hobbling along, trying to catch up with the help of the Endless Beta. It'll take an above-average effort to do so, but it might still happen. Heck, I'm still kind of rooting for it, because home-town favorite, and I generally know how to use it.
(Side note: Generally, the "beta" version of a program should be complete, and the feature set should be locked. If you find you absolutely need to add new features to the program, then it really wasn't ready for the customers after all.)
(And I bet the non-beta C8.5 will still make extensive use of Carbon calls. BAH!)
You joined the same day I did! How cool is that?
Yep. you did.
Thanks for letting us know, otherwise we might have kept coming here like mindless zombies.
Don't be so hard Holly.
I'm a zombie and I eat brains.
More brains.
Zombies are cool!
LOL I will never live this down, will I.
thinkmoremedia, dude, don't be pissing in my backyard. I'm the carrara doom sayer around here and don't you forget it.
And even though the developemnt of C8.5 is proceeding along at the speed of mud, it is moving along at a measurably forward speed. Even though you may need lasers to have something sensitive enough to measure that speed lol
Now even though DAZ seems to think I should be paying to use a figure I'm not really using much even though I can, I'm still looking forward to the release of C8.5 even if just to not have to put in a new code every month of so; with no preceding or follow up update. Although it is easy to get the opinion carrara isn't being worked on with how thin on the ground the updates have been. I can assure you carrara is being worked on even if it is just an intern verifying bugs.
I've been enjoying Carrara 8.5 quite immensely. Often wondering why it is no considered a serious animation tool...Then I started animating..
Where the heck is the coping of keyframes! So simple.
Why should I have to recreate a run cycle all over again.
If you left click in the sequencer, the options are ghosted out (disabled)
What respectable animation package wont let you copy a frame? Bazaar.
Secondly, the motion path tools are very sub par and need an over haul.
So sequence management/editing tools, and motion paths.
Those are my two big issues with Carrara right now.
Otherwise, I'm enjoying the software and look forward to updates.
Personally, I like using puppeteer and NLA way better than the old keyframing way. Then I suppose, I might feel differently, if I had gotten really good with using keyframes first.
Yes, it is simple!
Just highlight the keyframe(s) you want to copy, hold down the "alt" key (I think it's the "option" key on a mac), and drag your brand new, copied, keyframe(s) to their new home in the timeline.
Ok, I'll admit I was wrong.
However, I think I will not be alone in saying that (hold down the "alt" key + drag) is not the most intuitive user experience. As well as the disabled copy/paste on left clicking a keyframe is misleading.
So I still stand by that the sequence still needs some revamping.
MOO!
Agreed!
You have no idea how long it took me to find out that selecting a keyframe range and holding "Control" then dragging will proportionately "scale" the animation so you can speed up or slow down your entire walk-cycle (or whatever).
Much to be desired in the animation department, but a revamp of what is already there would be a Great first step!
Would you be mad if I said I read it in the manual? ;-) It's been the same way since at least version 5, so if you have the Version 7 manual it should be in there as well.
Has anyone ever thought that DAZ gets PAY OFFS (CASH) from other companies such as the people who make lightwave and MAYA to keeps it CRAZY AUNT (CARRARA!) locked in the attic?
Agree. Appears Carrara 8, been put aside and collecting dust since 2010. Although I do not use DS since version 2.0, they sure keep updating the versions.
That is just a bit too far in to the conspiracy theory zone even for me.
My theory? DAZ is under staffed. I can only assume carrara is being worked on by Studio devs when they have the spare time.
I mean really, no CG app developer is going to see carrara as competition, because it's not. It may have been at build 4 or 5, but certainly isn't now. {well maybe Poser}
As DAZ has made carrara more Studio like, carraraest have left for apps that do the jobs they want done. While the big 3; hell the top 5, CG apps have moved forward with features, carrara has been stuck wallowing in dolly land.
Now even though it may not sound like it, I like being able to use premades. I'm not that good at modeling, but do know how to rig in carrara. I love premades because I love staging, not modeling or rigging; well I like texturing. But with every new build it seems features, or feature advancement has been sacrificed for dolly compatibility.
C8.5 has a few minor; but nice, feature tweaks. The only new feature is genesis compatibility; due out this summer lol. We have also been given a tentative period for the release of C9, but does anyone have a clue what new features, if any, will be in it? If DAZ expects me to pay for C8.5 then in a few months pay for C9, C9 better be a big jump in features/advancement. But I don't see this happening. I don't believe DAZ has the capabilities to make any big advancements in carrara.
Please, from C5 to C8 name 6 new features that are not DAZ content related, that DAZ has added to carrara; remember dynamic hair was in the works for carrara before DAZ bought it. Have fun, and don't forget, bullet physics was developed by a different company. Ya, that doesn't leave 6 does it?
There must be more but I gotta back to work and can't check... but 64-bit and multithreading are a couple big changes that come to mind that aren't content related and what was done was not easy since it's not the original coding team. There's also re-doing the network rendering so animation renders would be more easily done - the previous way made Animation:Master's network render look stellar by comparison (A:M's still is easier). The latest would be mip-mapping which was lacking for a long time... seems everyone else has that. I'd dig more but I gotta run.
Please, from C5 to C8 name 6 new features that are not DAZ content related, that DAZ has added to carrara; remember dynamic hair was in the works for carrara before DAZ bought it. Have fun, and don't forget, bullet physics was developed by a different company. Ya, that doesn't leave 6 does it? First, 8.5 was aimed at NOTHING but adding Genesis compatibility. They've pleased us with some nice tweaks along the way - just because they're really cool. Not enough great things can be said about the folks who slave over improving our software - truly. I told them all that I am going to, one day, finance a big appreciation party for them - just as a way of me thanking them for improving my life dramatically. No other software compares to Carrara - so, just keeping it updated and alive is making my life better in a big way. I simply cannot do what I do in Carrara in anything else - as easily and comfortably as I can in Carrara - and the developers at DAZ 3D have a LOT to do with that.
I'll start a list, but I'll miss a lot, because much of what has been done doesn't need to be a feature. Carrara development is partly about improving what's already there, too. There are arguments that not enough has been done in that regard. But that comes (I think) from a more narrow view, forgetting how vast the 3d implementation of Carrara truly is. There really is nothing else like it. Okay, let's see...
* Auto-Animation Ocean Primitive (I Love this thing!)
* Multiple Leaves on plants (allows for adding berries, flowers, etc.,)
* Displacement Modeling
* Displacement Mapping
* Normal Maps
* Negative Lights
* UV Unfolding (Huge Addition!)
* Sun Beams (God Rays? I think they're called?)
* Modeling in the Assembly Room
* Spot Light Barn Doors
* 3d Painting (Huge!)
* IES Lighting options
Not to mention that DAZ 3D has taken Carrara through this whole transition (which I was initially really wondering about - and they did it just as I was buying Carrara - in their Carrara 8 beta) of Operating Systems going to 64 bit. They've made export and bridge availability to the big, popular formats, like After Effects, Photoshop, Z-Brush, and more.
I'm sorry that it seems that I get so defensive. I'm not trying to be. It just bewilders me that anyone could find it hard to see the incredible advantages to Carrara over anything else. Now ManStan knows (I hope) that I'm not singling him out when I quote him. I just use his points to help to illustrate mine. He has very reasonable needs and wishes that he's fighting for - and I want those improvements, too. ManStan, in my opinion, doesn't show off enough of his incredible work that he's done within Carrara. So I already know that he know the advantages I'm talking about and such - I'm not picking on anyone here.
I just want to help to illustrate a point that DAZ 3D does have a true interest in seeing Carrara grow and improve to meet the times, head on. DAZ may be huge in the content department, but the whole software offerings beyond Daz Studio is still relatively new - compared to where their competition is. In the grand scheme of things, DAZ 3D just recently acquired these great resources and has generously made them available to their customers, rather than seeing them sink into the archives of the webway. They have made them incredibly affordable. They have even created communities for each to help give the users of these excellent applications a common place to grow and help each other. DAZ 3D has really done a lot for all of us - and continue to do so - and are really, very generous. You really have to cough out a lot of coin to find anything that can try to compete with Carrara - but you still won't get the advantages that DAZ 3D gives us in Carrara.
I truly look forward to seeing what the future holds for all of the DAZ 3D offerings of software. I hope that all of their current applications remain in development. Even if DAZ only has a small development crew (I have no idea how many people AZ employs for software development), the fact remains that they certainly know what they're doing. This stuff has got to be difficult to do.
All of that aside - I just wanted to share my feelings about the current Carrara and its future in a positive light. Not to diminish any of the wants, needs and concerns of others. And then... once I start typing, I just get carried away. I do that when I talk, too.
Anyways... I still think that Carrara has one competitive render engine as well. Many call it dated. If that's true, that old render engine sure know how to cast and reflect and record rays in a timely manner. Some of my scenes would totally choke some of the other available render engines out there. If they advance Carrara's rendering capabilities, I certainly hope that they keep this engine. Finding an output to an engine that can take advantage of GPU cycles would be sweet - especially if they could get the current engine optimized into GPU cores.
* Auto-Animation Ocean Primitive (I Love this thing!)
Nothing new, we have always been able to animate rolling ocean waves. DAZ just took out having to set it up.
* Multiple Leaves on plants (allows for adding berries, flowers, etc.,)
Was in the works before DAZ bought it. With dynamic hair one of the last things the original developers did.
* Displacement Modeling
Not new. {may be wrong there}
* Displacement Mapping
Not new. Unless you are talking about displacement painting in the assembly room, then that is the 3d painting I'll give you 1 for later.
* Normal Maps
Just a minor tweak to the bump map node. Hardly a big new feature.
{even though this was one of my requested features it is so common I don't consider it a big feature, more of a necessity for any CG app}
* Negative Lights
Put in because studio and Poser users seemed to think carrara needed it.
* UV Unfolding (Huge Addition!)
Not new. Tweaked a great deal maybe, but carrara has always been able to UVmap..
* Sun Beams (God Rays? I think they’re called?)
Hardly usable and I think more of an accidental discovery then a feature.
* Modeling in the Assembly Room
May be a boon to modelers but was put in for dollies.
* Spot Light Barn Doors
Which does what? I haven't seen where it does anything.
* 3d Painting (Huge!)
When you can get it to work. But I'll give you 1 for it.
* IES Lighting options
OK there's 2.
I'll give you the 64 bit, bit, but I would have gladly traded it for dynamic cloth or liquid dynamics.
You are funny! (smiling and laughing here)
The two things you're asking for have also been things that we could always do - if that's what you're going to say about any of the other stuff being... insignificant - simply because you can't find a use for them!
(There... that was picking on the ManStan - but he asked for it!)
Carrara never had UV Unfolding until DAZ added it. Of course it could read a UV map...
Ocean primitive follows the wind, has several preset options... it's totally a new feature!
Multiple Leaves (along with a LOT more new enhancements to the plant editor was added by DAZ
I'll have to look into Displacement modeling and mapping - but I'm pretty sure DAZ added them - but who cares
Normal Maps as a great thing to have! Especially if you have and use Z-Brush!
What gives with that? It wasn't there before... it's a new fricken feature!
Having Negative Lights, whether you give a Rats behind for them, is new
Modeling in the assembly room is brand new DAZ added that. Forgive me if... bah... never mind!
Oh... again with you not knowing, so it doesn't count with the barn doors.
Why am I even responding to this lack of logic?
Have you ever watched Infinite Skills: Advanced Carrara Techniques, hosted by a real pro in 3d, Phil Wilkes?
Oh no... no come back?
Shoot. That usually means that I said something wrong - and I'm really in for it - in due time. Let me start by saying... "I'm sorry, man... just answering the weird reply you've made to my list".
Anyways... let's just say that I'm wrong at all of this. Really... Let's just do that.
We all know that I'm too protective over Carrara and the really awesome people that make it better. I can't seem to help it. It is very important that we let them know what we don't like about it - and what we would love to see in it for the future - especially in this next release of Carrara 9. ManStan, I like pretty much all of your suggestions for that stuff. I also really like your renders. I wish I could see more of them. You and Holly, 3dage, Kevin S, Kodiak, bigh, etc., all have a lot more experience in Carrara than I do, and I really like seeing your stuff. And I hope that all of your wishes come true for C9Pro, unless it has anything to do with its demise or backward progress.
Carrara has always been able to UVmap.
Soft clothes and semi liquid dynamics are part of bullet physics, DAZ may have shoe horned it in but bullet physics is not from DAZ. It's also not dynamic clothing or flowing water.
Figure anything new to C6 was added by the original developers before DAZ sent them on their way.
I didn't say DAZ didn't add modeling in the assembly room, I said DAZ added it for dollies.
Negative lights are for apps with bad shadows. Carrara does not have bad shadows. People that were used to working with Poser and Studio felt carrara needed it and for DAZ it was easy to add to carrara and to the "new features" list. The only time I have used it is when I want a mysterious dark spot in the room. Carrara has shadow adjustments to give you the sort of shadows you would need a negative light for in Studio or Poser.
Please explain how to use the barn doors on the spot light and what they do. Really I'm looking at the spot light, there is no barn doors adjustment or barn doors effect. All I see are little flaps on the light icon, please don't tell me you are considering that a new feature.
dartanbeck, I don't sit parked on this forum. I may check it in the AM and not get back till the next day.
At this point C9 is a big mystery. Considering it will supposedly be out in a year or so; lol, I haven't read anything about what new features it has.
Now for the C8.5 beta, I have done a lot of beta testing. I've never seen an app or game go for 3-4 months with out an update. Some one can check my math but I believe we have gotten 4 serials per update. Meaning C8.5 regularly went 3-4 months with out an update.
And this is some how supposed to give us confidence in the development of carrara. C8.5 will be little more then genesis compatibility and some tweaks/fixes and it has taken going on 2 years?
Hi Stan,. :)
Here's the barn doors,.. under effects for spotlights. (see pic)
also,. Negative lights are Not for applications with bad shadowing,. they're really quite useful,. I think we've all seen figures talking with really bright inner mouths. a little negative bulb takes that away.
New features are NOT only for Daz dollies, neither is modelling any vertex object in the assembly room a feature which only applies to figures from Daz.
The Graph editor, the vertex modeller and UV Mapping, Rendering, Shaders, Lighting, Animation,. and many other areas of the core carrara program, have been worked on, and improved, as part of the 8.5 beta development.
You mention a disparity between the Beta versions which have been made available to test,. and the serials or build numbers.
Daz wont hand out public beta builds which could cause issues, ..or weren't very stable ?
Some elements of the beta builds had to be re-written since the development of Daz3d's new formats for DSON (duff) was also in development. and changing one, caused issues in the other,.. (daz tried to make things work in a specific route, then found out that it wouldn't work that way, then had to back-track,. and rebuild some stuff. ... that caused a gap in beta releases, while those issues were worked through.
therefore, ..no public beta release,.. until those issues were resolved.
As far as,.. what's new in Carrara 9,...
Nothing yet,. since they're still developing C8.5,.
once that's released,. then the development of C9 can begin.
As far as Genesis 2 / autofit etc,.
C8.5 is still in development and any issues will be getting looked at,.. now.
Since 8.5 wasn't ready for release and genesis 2 was,.. it makes sense for Daz to launch G2, for use in DS and poser using the Dson importer for poser, and make sure it works when C8.5 is released.
Nobody has stopped working on autofit and said, " Hey,. that's it finished" . so it's still being worked on, just as DS and Carrara are being worked on,.
The developers for DS and carrara are different people, (although they do communicate and work together more now) and Carrara isn't seen as something to work on when the daz dev's have some spare time.
The progress of development may be slow in comparison to a software company who only makes software. and has years of development experience,.
But,. it's development none the less,. it's not stagnant, or dead, or even ill,.. it's being brought up to date with new technology and improvements in the way that it works.
With DIM,. you should see updates to products, plugins, and software as soon as they're available on the server,.
DIM is also the way that Carrara can use smart content without the need to install Daz Studio to provide the CMS
Negative lights have been around in other programs for years, like Vue for example, and they are very helpful when setting up fake GI. Barn doors are needed if you are going to try and duplicate photo real studio setups.
I didn't say UV Mapping. I said UV "Unfolding" - a new feature added by Daz3d. This is where you define seams and pins to unwrap the model into a 2d texture map - rather than relying entirely on an automatic algorithm.
Which came from Hexagon. ;)
So the spot light barn doors are like the ocean primitive, some thing we could already do made more convenient. I'd label that a convenience, not a feature. Much like I wouldn't consider the new light shapes in C8.5 a new feature, nice needed style change, but not a feature.
"Nobody has stopped working on autofit and said, ” Hey,. that’s it finished” . so it’s still being worked on, just as DS and Carrara are being worked on,." 3DAGE
I don't assume DAZ is doing anything. If I don't see work, I don't know any is actually being done. So was there any updates to autofit in Studio 4.6? Does it do long skirts yet? Does it not tuck in blouses under breasts now? Does it not wipe out style morphs now? These are the things that; for me, make it as much a PITA as a boon to genesis users.
Of coarse if it worked that good there would be no reason to buy new clothes, now would there?
"The progress of development may be slow in comparison to a software company who only makes software. and has years of development experience,. " 3DAGE
Are you kidding? The development is slow compared to glaciers, let alone an actual software development company. There is no excuse for a 2 year beta. other then maybe the lead programer had some extremely serious health issues, and the one intern working with him was only good for getting coffee.
"With DIM,. you should see updates to products, plugins, and software as soon as they’re available on the server,.
DIM is also the way that Carrara can use smart content without the need to install Daz Studio to provide the CMS"
Oh you know I refuse to use ether of those, so I have no clue when something is update; thanks for that DAZ. DAZ could at least have my account; well every ones, set up so when something gets an update it gets moved to the top of my order list. So all I'd have to do is a quick check of my account.
"New features are NOT only for Daz dollies, neither is modelling any vertex object in the assembly room a feature which only applies to figures from Daz." 3DAGE
I didn't say all new features were for DAZ dollies, but it does seem the ones they are putting the most time and effort in to are. And I'll have to agree, as hard as it is to model on content in the assembly room, no it can't just be for dollies. If it was we wouldn't have extra steps involved to do it on dollies; when you can.
When it is hot and dry I can't really tell if the grass has grown till I mow. I can assume it is growing but until I measure it with the mower I can tell.
UV unwrapping in Carrara,.. didn't come from Hexagon.
That's what they've done by making DIM,.
As soon as an update is available on the Daz servers,. and you open DIM, then the update appears available for download.
Even if you wanted to "manually" extract all the files from the zips into your own locations, and only allow DIM to download the zips for you.
of course, doing that, wouldn't allow Dim to know where the products are installed,. and therefore DIM wouldn't be able to tell if a product is installed or not, and I think that would effect it's ability to show updates to installed products.
You can set up multiple runtime folders within DIM, and install different products to those folders,.
Dim can install any updates for your products,. into the folders where the original files were installed. (Unless you want to install them somewhere else). again, your choice to install what you want , where you want.
DIM doesn't force you to install products to any fixed location,. all of the "default" or recommended folders,. can be changed to suit how you want to work.
All I do is open DIM on my desktop,. it log's me into my account and checks for any new files for me.
then I click Download, and it downloads them,. ...and if I've set the option to,.. "Install after Download",. then it installs them into the correct folders.
If you don't install with DIM, but you do leave the downloaded files in DIM's download folder (which you can customize the location of), then DIM will be able to tell you if there are updates. Alternatively, install with DIM to a dummy location and then delete the files in the dummy location, and DIM will know what has been installed, and can check for updates.
I'll concede the UV unwrap, the 2 just seem so similar it was almost a clone.
Oh yes, I paid for the clones. And you know how I feel about workarounds as apposed to actual fixes; it removes the motivation for the fix.
3DAGE, really? Of coarse autofit will get better, the question is, in my life time ;)
I don't need it working better next month, or next quarter, or next year I needed it working better 6 months after release.
I thought I had made myself quite clear, I want nothing to do with CMS or DIM, and you know why. More over why should I be forced to install something I don't want to use just to simply find out if there has been content updates?
Sorry 3DAGE, I'm rather tenacious on the subject.
Seriously, this isn't rocket science. Download, upzip, drop it where it belongs, what is so hard about that? I really don't need two different apps to do it for me.
Stan ;)
I've used Zips for over25years,. so,. I get what you're saying,. it' easy,.. but take this for example......
HI.
I purchased a dress and got a page with a zip file (link) on it,. so i downloaded this file, but it's not working on my system.
response : you'll need to put the files into your Runtime folder.
I don't have a runtime folder,. i'm using Poser and DAZ,. ... I put the file into a new folder, but it doesn't show up in the programs.
response : You need to extract the files from the zip archive into your content libraries.
How do I do that,. ..do i need another program,... and,.. Where are my content libraries,.... is it the same as my poser library.
Stan,. I know that you "know" how to use zips,.and are comfortable with that method,. but to some people, simply unzipping, and not knowing what they're doing can become a nightmare, and result in files being unzipped to different folders, multiple times, and still not working.
So,. the ability for "NEW" (and existing) users, to have an easy to use, and "foolproof" way of downloading, installing, and managing their files is a BIG step forward. it also takes the pressure off of the helpful people in the forums, who constantly have to answer questions like the above example.
Rocket science isn't rocket science when you're used to doing it.
but,. the first time you build a rocket, can be a very nerve racking experience,.
The same applies to any process the user isn't familiar with, whether that's downloading a Zip archive, or extracting the files from the archive,. to a specific location.
Also bear in mind that there's a generation out there who are more familiar with using phones to download and install "apps" automatically for them,. rather than use computers to locate files they need to unpack manually to the correct location before the product can work.
so having a way to "Automatically" download and install your purchases,. and an "Automatic" way to find the materials or poses which can be applied to the figure, or clothing item, or hair prop, which you've selected in your scene,. is going to be a better way to work for many people.
nobody can force them, or you,. to use, or purchase, anything they don't want to,.
The advantages and disadvantages can be explained,. and people can decide for themselves.
Andy :)