Any easy way to give an outfit a thicker edge?

Oso3D

I was poking around at some knit fabric shaders and it occurs to me that a lot of outfits are paperthin.

Is there an easy way to thicken the edge of collar/cuffs? I mean, I could convert it to an object and muck with it in a modeler, but I'd like a simpler approach.

AllenArt

When I was making dynamic clothes for Poser, I used to choose one or two rows of polys around all the open holes and extrude out just a teensy bit. Of course that's going to interfere with uv maps.

Laurie

mjc1016

AllenArt said:

When I was making dynamic clothes for Poser, I used to choose one or two rows of polys around all the open holes and extrude out just a teensy bit. Of course that's going to interfere with uv maps.

Laurie

That somewhat depends on which modeller you are using for the extrusion...some will update the UVs on the fly.

But one thing to keep in mind is to keep the polys you are extruding 'in scale'.  Take a couple of sweaters or sweatshirts and measure how thick the cuffs/edges are then when extruding, make it only that thick, because too much can cause odd fitting problems/poke through.

And anything that this is done to 'after the fact' is really going to need to be re-rigged (something where dynamic clothing has it all over conforming)...and all the morphs/adjustments redone, too.  Of course, if it's planned for/done from the start then it isn't a problem.

Ashcloud

Have you tried the "Push Modifier"?

Oso3D

Push modifier just moves it around. Which can be handy, but when you see the cuff, it still looks perfectly thin.

Which is fine for a lot of things, but not, say, heavy cloth/sweaters.

j cade

In tems of modeling, Its a pretty simple muck about, For most clothing items (sertainly the ones that need help looking thick) I:

Import into blender

Select the object

IN the modifiers tab on the right select the "solidify" modifier

Maybe tweak some modifier settings

Export

 

Seriously, I don't even have to go into edit mode most of the time... Truly glorious. It even picks up the UVs.

 

(an example of where one might need to go into edit mode would be if the item in question had something like a more complexly modelled belt, if it were showing weirdness, one would apply the modifier enter edit mode and delete the offending newly created vertices)

 

I'd love a solidify modifier in studio though, It could hang out with the subD and smoothing modifiers

3Diva

What I do if I really need a bit thicker edge is to load the clothing item 3 or 4 times and add a push modifier to each additional one that I add. Like the second one, I'll set the mesh offset/push modifier to .12, then the third to .18, and the forth to .24. 

It works fairly well but, ideally, I'd like to see clothes items have more care taken to make sure they have a bit more of a substantial edge or thickness to them. I know a lot of PAs do a good job with edge thickness. But some don't. 

Oso3D

... Well, that's inventive! HA! Clever.

 

3Diva

timmins.william said:

... Well, that's inventive! HA! Clever.

 

lol Thank you. *blush* :)

I hope that it's helpful! 

wolf359

j cade said:

In tems of modeling, Its a pretty simple muck about, For most clothing items (sertainly the ones that need help looking thick) I:

Import into blender

Select the object

IN the modifiers tab on the right select the "solidify" modifier

Maybe tweak some modifier settings

Export

 

Seriously, I don't even have to go into edit mode most of the time... Truly glorious. It even picks up the UVs.

 

(an example of where one might need to go into edit mode would be if the item in question had something like a more complexly modelled belt, if it were showing weirdness, one would apply the modifier enter edit mode and delete the offending newly created vertices)

 

I'd love a solidify modifier in studio though, It could hang out with the subD and smoothing modifiers

Indeed a great feature in Blender
I use it quite often when importing a Daz figure into blender
for  cycles rendering via the "teleblender" script.
often times the "one molecule thick" daz clothing shows alot of poke thru when exported out of Daz studio into another program.

grinch2901

divamakeup said:

What I do if I really need a bit thicker edge is to load the clothing item 3 or 4 times and add a push modifier to each additional one that I add. Like the second one, I'll set the mesh offset/push modifier to .12, then the third to .18, and the forth to .24. 

It works fairly well but, ideally, I'd like to see clothes items have more care taken to make sure they have a bit more of a substantial edge or thickness to them. I know a lot of PAs do a good job with edge thickness. But some don't. 

That's a clever idea.  You say you load the clothing item multiple times but it would seem that using instances would give the same effect without the extra memory load.  I don't know if you can use push modifier on instances but i do know you can scale them manuall. I'll have to try it.  Thanks for the tip!

3Diva

grinch2901 said:

divamakeup said:

What I do if I really need a bit thicker edge is to load the clothing item 3 or 4 times and add a push modifier to each additional one that I add. Like the second one, I'll set the mesh offset/push modifier to .12, then the third to .18, and the forth to .24. 

It works fairly well but, ideally, I'd like to see clothes items have more care taken to make sure they have a bit more of a substantial edge or thickness to them. I know a lot of PAs do a good job with edge thickness. But some don't. 

That's a clever idea.  You say you load the clothing item multiple times but it would seem that using instances would give the same effect without the extra memory load.  I don't know if you can use push modifier on instances but i do know you can scale them manuall. I'll have to try it.  Thanks for the tip!

NP! :)

I don't know if it effects render time - if it does it didn't effect it much (at least not in this scene). I rendered both of the images in about the same amount of time. :)

Jimbow

@divamakeup: Very inventive

MelanieL

j cade said:

In tems of modeling, Its a pretty simple muck about, For most clothing items (sertainly the ones that need help looking thick) I:

Import into blender

Select the object

IN the modifiers tab on the right select the "solidify" modifier

Maybe tweak some modifier settings

Export

 

Seriously, I don't even have to go into edit mode most of the time... Truly glorious. It even picks up the UVs.

 

(an example of where one might need to go into edit mode would be if the item in question had something like a more complexly modelled belt, if it were showing weirdness, one would apply the modifier enter edit mode and delete the offending newly created vertices)

 

I'd love a solidify modifier in studio though, It could hang out with the subD and smoothing modifiers

This sounds interesting - but how do you get the modified outfit back into DAZ Studio?

(+1 on the solidify modifier in DS too)

mjc1016

MelanieL said:

This sounds interesting - but how do you get the modified outfit back into DAZ Studio?

(+1 on the solidify modifier in DS too)

You don't...as a 'usable' outfit.  It would need to be imported as an obj and then rerigged.  You can also export the posed outfit, apply the modifier, export and be done, but then it's just that pose.

MelanieL

mjc1016 said:

MelanieL said:

This sounds interesting - but how do you get the modified outfit back into DAZ Studio?

(+1 on the solidify modifier in DS too)

You don't...as a 'usable' outfit.  It would need to be imported as an obj and then rerigged.  You can also export the posed outfit, apply the modifier, export and be done, but then it's just that pose.

Ah, that's what I feared - I failed to read the first line properly: "In terms of modeling, Its a pretty simple muck about..."  so it doesn't solve the getting-back-to-DS thing, just the messing with extrusion/etc part. Thanks for clarifying.

nicstt

If I need it, I export it to Blender and add one; I've even modelled a couple of items for myself to use; basically most clothes get returned if they 'don't exist' in all dimensions. If they're cheap enough I'll keep em.

I'm currently considering returning the Daria Dress http://www.daz3d.com/daria-dress-outfit-for-genesis-3-female-s

The only reason I haven't yet, is its design makes it hard to tell, and the cuffs seem to have some slight depth, although other parts dont

Wilmap

Most of my items will have an edge added to necklines, sleeve edges and hems etc.  If I make something in MD then I have to load it into Silo and add the edges there, which can be a fiddly job.

3Diva

Jimbow said:

@divamakeup: Very inventive

Thanks, Jimbow! :) You guys put a big smile on my face! I'm glad one of my stupid ideas/tricks wasn't so stupid. lol

Causam3D

j cade said:

In tems of modeling, Its a pretty simple muck about, For most clothing items (sertainly the ones that need help looking thick) I:

Import into blender

Select the object

IN the modifiers tab on the right select the "solidify" modifier

Maybe tweak some modifier settings

Export

 

Seriously, I don't even have to go into edit mode most of the time... Truly glorious. It even picks up the UVs.

 

(an example of where one might need to go into edit mode would be if the item in question had something like a more complexly modelled belt, if it were showing weirdness, one would apply the modifier enter edit mode and delete the offending newly created vertices)

 

I'd love a solidify modifier in studio though, It could hang out with the subD and smoothing modifiers

I love Blender, and do 100% of my mesh work in it. 

The only problem with this method, and I use it quite often, is that the solidified mesh has no internal structural rigidity - It's just two layers with the edges closed together.  Once imported into DAZ and fit to a model, if there is a tight spot say around the curve of a breast or buttocks, the outer layer tends to crash through the inner layer, creating some strange effects with materials.  I'm working on some way of overcoming this short of selecting each and every corresponding pair of vertices between the layers and filling them.  That, in a dense mesh, would take days to do. 

 

Causam3D

Shortly after responding to this, I was working on the mesh which caused me to google and find this thread in the first place, and stumbled upon a solution to the layers colliding.

In Blender, after adding the solidify modifier, give it a negative offset rather than a positive one -- eg, -.875 rather than .875 -- this solidifies the mesh inward.  Bear with me..  then scale the mesh so that the inner wall you just created fits your model properly.  Essentially, you're replacing the original single layer mesh position with the one created by the modifier.  Don't worry, it'll fit just fine.

Now here's the important part;  export the mesh WITHOUT applying the modifer in modifiers tab.  Simply check the box for "apply modifiers" in the export pane, and allow Blender to export the mesh with the modifier applied on the fly.  For reasons I don't pretend to understand, the issue with the layers colliding into each other and messing up the textures goes away after importing the obj file into DAZ.  This accidental find (I had simply forgotten to apply the modifier manually) made a world of difference. 

I hope this helps.

 

Jan_Scrapper

This is a very good post and reason why clothing does not look real.  It's too thin and without edging!!

I think I will have to add in postwork, which is a lot of work and does not look very good :(

WendyLuvsCatz

maybe if the clothes bevel in a bit on the edges one could create an instance mirrored negatively as a lining

Jan_Scrapper

WendyLuvsCatz said:

maybe if the clothes bevel in a bit on the edges one could create an instance mirrored negatively as a lining

Yes!!  That makes sense!!

GlennF

Why not use a normal map?

Sevrin

GlennF said:

Why not use a normal map?

That doesn't actually thicken the geometry, and  has no effect when looking at an edge.

GlennF

Of course it Doesn't actually thicken the geometry duh.But It does look like it is thicker which is what counts.

 

marble

GlennF said:

Why not use a normal map?

I have an idea how to make a bump/displacement map but wouldn't have a clue about making a normal map. Texturing and UV maps are strange and distant lands to me.

Sevrin

GlennF said:

Of course it Doesn't actually thicken the geometry duh.But It does look like it is thicker which is what counts.

 

Garments already have normal maps.  They don't give the sought after result.

nicstt

GlennF said:

Of course it Doesn't actually thicken the geometry duh.But It does look like it is thicker which is what counts.

 

No it doesn't.

Where it counts is the edge, and infinitely thin looks odd.

Your image is an excellent example of why it doesn't work. Maybe you're fixated on the closer boob, but pay attention to the other.

 

Displacement works, but can be time-consuming to make.

Hell, it's one of the reasons I moved to rendering in Blender.

GlennF

nicstt said:

GlennF said:

Of course it Doesn't actually thicken the geometry duh.But It does look like it is thicker which is what counts.

 

No it doesn't.

Where it counts is the edge, and infinitely thin looks odd.

Your image is an excellent example of why it doesn't work. Maybe you're fixated on the closer boob, but pay attention to the other.

 

Displacement works, but can be time-consuming to make.

Hell, it's one of the reasons I moved to rendering in Blender.

I am not fixated on anything.

this was an example of what can be done.also that pic was of a geoshell.not real cloth.