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Based on their previous release schedule, Gen 8 should release this June
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/130706/genesis-4-wishlist#latest
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/135056/genesis-4-female-body#latest
'Interval between 2 versions of Genesis has been 2 years so far, and G3 is now almost 2 years old.'
OK, but there is no anouncement from DAZ3d, so this is all speculation. I hope we can return to the topic of Kids 7.
I think I'll begin working on one of those "Laws" that you see from time to time, that goes something like,:
The necessity of a product can be determined by when asking for a specific item,
1. One is directed to another site for that product.
2. Shown a previous version of that product that is incompatible with their current set up.
3. Shown something else they have to buy in the hopes of creating the product for themselves, or getting the aforementioned incompatible item to maybe work.
lol... that about sums it up
In most cases, store sites have to balance the desires of the customers with the income of the company that runs it and those it is allowing to sell there. Stuff that's less likely (often based on past sales numbers for similar products) to sell in sufficient quantity due to being perceived as a sales risk simply isn't made available. But, that is something that needs to be adjusted, since it perpetuates rhe myth that all Poser/DAZ Studio are good for is risque content.
A realistic "Kids 7" figure would be one character, I would definitely buy. I have and use Growing Up, a lot, since most of my renders are about real life like situations usually involving kids and at the moment, with the absence of a real kids figure(s) for gen3, I'm very happy it exists. Gen3 version of Growing Up was one of the first gen3 products I got after getting into gen3 (last April), because of no actual kid figures.
Even with Kids 7, the lack of suitable clothing items would be a problem, unless the figure would bring out a sudden influx of suitable gen3 kids clothing items..
A sudden influx of Kids7 clothing could well happen, but I think the Kids7 idea has to be strongly supported by DAZ3d first to get it off the ground and flying. So maybe, once Kids7 is released, DAZ3d could release a series of clothing items appropriate to the Kids7 figure. Say for example "rough play-wear", "school-wear", "sports-wear", "Boy Scouts/Girl Guides uniforms", "gymnastics-wear", "swim-wear", "sleep-wear", "birthday party-wear" all sorts of footwear etc. Also they could release several appropriate environments such as sports ground, swimming pool, school, home, bedroom, playground, down at the farm or petting-zoo etc. A few typical kids toys would not go amiss... Appropriate hair styles (with bones... kids love action and playing) would be important.
I think if DAZ3d were to get the ball rolling in this way, it would stimulate PAs to contribute their own ideas.
Just waiting for DAZ3d really!
The Time for School outfits by Dogz are one of the few items that work well with G3F and the Growing Up morphs, so school uniforms are taken care of.
It depends on how far you take the morphs, I see quite some distortion of the mesh and therefore, the texture, in the chest area, due to the flattening of the chest.
You speak too soon xD... As far as sells... I dont care. I do it for passion.... Not greed... I would be more then willing to fill the part. If given a chance.
I've said this once. I'll say it again.. Low sells on kids stuff has nothing to do with the fact that nobody buys it or likes to render child like figures. It has everything to do with the cheap, generic, toonish people.. When you stack a K4 next to a V4... They arnt compatable because the K4 is a hidious little monster, and unrealistic... and just straight creepy looking... it ruins the render... If a K4 was on the same level of quality as a V4.. sells would increase dramaticly.. When you half ass a product.. Expect half assed sells.
When you make a quick model and its cheap, cause you think it aint going to get sells... and then when it dont sell cause its so cheap.. and you go SEE low sells!!! I told you so!.. It's called a self fulfilling prophecy.
If you want serious sells... Take the work seriously...
Skylers sells is living proof that customers are more then willing to buy kids stuff if the art is taken seriously enough and not half baked, and slapped together... Nobody wants to buy junk... So yeah.. Duh.. Of course kids stuff is going to have bad sells.when 99% of it is very super generic and cheap,.. What did you expect? There isnt 1 single kid morph out there that if you place in a scene with a V4 -M4 or a G2 or G3 that dont look out of place... And you wonder why they dont sell well? Really?... They are so imcompatable with everything else out there... It dont take much to figure it out... Unless you are going to make a really super cartoony render... They have no use... And most people dont much care for toon3D. There you go.. Thats the sells issue solved... People dont have a prejudice towards buying kids stuff. They have a prejudice towards wasting their money, and rightfully so...
No the sells are not going to MATCH a V4... Of course not. It's silly to expect that... But that is very narrow to ignore a large chunk of the community of artists cause your so blood thirty for money... Not only is it a middle finger to a large chunk of the community, it also boils up from the ocean of greed. And greed has no respectable place in the world of art and narrow mindedness and prejudice is the counter-opposite of "art" and "artist".
@ Angel-Wings. Those are some very nice images, they illustrate clearly that you have the skills necessary to model a Kids7 figure. I think you are right in your comments about realistic childlike figures versus toon childlike figures. Cartoons and anime are quite popular, especially in some parts of the world, however they are mostly hand drawn (2d) works. It is not surprising that the market for 3d toony figures is not so great. DAZ3d's K4 was IMO a disaster of a figure. Some artists made quite heroic attempts to create beautiful characters from K4, but the basic mesh and rigging meant it was pretty much doomed from the start. In my opinion the basic K4 figure looked more like a dwarf than a child; it only needed a beard to complete the scene. Skyler is a better attempt, but I would still say the Skyler figures look more like 12 to 14 years old than young children. So, if a young childlike figure was the goal then Skyler also missed the target.
To me it seems that Kids-Baby (0-3 yrs) and Kids7 (4 to 10 or 11 yrs) are required to complete the Genesis 3 family of figures. I doubt such figures will make sales as great as some of the mainstream catwalk model G3f figures or the macho G3m figures. However DAZ3d puts effort into meeting the requirements of other niche areas such as Hulk like figures and other monsterous figures (both male and female), so why not also the kids?
Skyler is also somewhat stylized, as is Rayn, just like the rest of 3D Universe's products, and if there is no interest in toon characters, why is that the main style of characters that PA sells? And yes, Skyler and Rayn are twelve year olds, not younger ones.
Firstly, I don't recall anyone saying that there is "no interest in toon chatracters"!
As to why that is the main style of [childlike] characters that PAs sell; that is a good question. [I am assuming you are not comparing toon sales to all other sales.] What do you think the answer is?
Angel-Wings implied it, though that may be more that since it's not his or her preferred artistic style, such characters are of no use.
I'm honestly not sure; I certainly do not agree that DAZ is ignoring or otherwise being rude by not making a Kids 7. Nor do I think it's a matter of them wanting to create content that has sales levels comperable to Victoria 7/G3F based figures; it's more likely that they do not see the requests for such products as a valid indication of how many copies will sell, especially in the first three days after release.
I recall saying "Skylers sells is living proof that customers are more then willing to buy kids stuff if the art is taken seriously enough and not half baked, and slapped together... Nobody wants to buy junk... "
Until you find out that you can't dial the head and body in separately, which is half-baked in my book. Even with Tween Julie you have the ability to dial them in separately. But, this doesn't touch on the fact that what buyers see as flaws may not be seen that way by either the PA or DAZ during the QA process. It also doesn't look at the fact that a PA (or the DAZ artist that does a given DAZ Original like K4 was) may not have the same view of what they want to accomplish as what the users want the content to be, and the PA may not be comfortable with making a more realistic character in that age group.
Well, it was always my opinion based on what is available as freebies and just generally running into images on the web that toon style characters are much more popular than realistic characters, In particular in the DAZ/Poser 3D worlds and of those I felt that 3DU's are far & away the most popular.
However, that's just my opinion. I do know to date that 3DU models have been the only DAZ/Poser models I have seen and recognized in an internationally syndicated TV show and that was an episode of 'Syd the Sceance Kid' featured a big gang of Toon Generations One characters walking along the suburban streets once. They performed admirably, although I disagreed with their choice of shaders used to create the animation it could be they didn't have the house power to do a fully claymation style iRay or 3DL style animation even with their big budget and ability to hire expertise. There may be more instances but you'll have to forgive me for not watching every episode of Syd the Science kid - however you can blame that though as much on my local affiliate incessantly repeating the same episodes than on Syd the Sceance Kid being bad television.
I have to do a render with a pair of 6 yr old kids, all I have are K4. Tried Genesis but there wasn't much option in winter clothing for children. So I'm pretty much stuck.
I suppose it is not surprising to see more images based on free or low cost figures. I suspect that the majority of peole who use DS and DAZ3d products are hobbyists (though doubtless a few professional media artists do too). Your comments on Syd the Science Kid seem to correctly illustrate what is the probable reason why we don't see Genesis 3 figures more in movies or commercial products. Simply, if the company has a sufficiently high budget they can and will afford 3d figures, animation systems, lighting and textures systems that are way beyond the hobby market. Professional level 3d animation can be much more expensive and take longer than filming with real people.
Getting back to reality for us here and now, the Genesis 3 figure is at the top of the hobbyist market. It could be even more fun to use if the mesh was much higher resolution (for us amateur morphers at least).
Accepting that we (most of us here) are amateurs and not working as professionals in the 3d animation industry, we still do strive for quality in our renders and/or animations. That quality might be in making beautiful toon or anime renders, but many prefer realism. A fairly high degree of realism is possible with current Genesis 3 figures in DS, at least for adult and teenage figures, but one has to admit that there is a gap in the market for those who would like to render realistic babies and young children. It may not be a huge market in terms of sales but it is a gap. As for the reasons why this is so, I suppose the people best able to answer this question are DAZ3d themselves. For the rest of us it is limited to opinions and speculation.
DAZ3d, any comments?
Until DAZ get the clothing, hair, and eyes much improved in their realistic models I've given up trying to get a realistic render except occasionally every few months. It might be different were I to have a video card with which to GPU render but the realism still fails I just get to the failure faster.
I agree though the trend in gaming is to go for more realism, when they bother to try and be original artistically at all, but to me what those realistic games, even for those business with the resources to spare no expense, usually winds up looking like is a poor-man's animated Normal Rockwell painting, only not as good.
You would have to ask them. Maybe file a ticket and send it as a product suggestion directly to them.
I'd have returned skyler if I'd found out soon enough; I haven't bought any more of their figures since, because they can't be dialled in seperately.
You speak too soon xD... As far as sells... I dont care. I do it for passion.... Not greed... I would be more then willing to fill the part. If given a chance.
Great job! Especially the girl with the sword; it looks very convincing.
Even in normal photography (which is more or less what photorealistic image rending is attempting to emulate), eyes are extremely difficult to get "right", so I don't blame DAZ or the PAs for that. As for clothing and hair, it's really the PAs that decide how much effort vs return they want, so we have to convince them the extra effort is worth it by doing more than saying we want these things.
@ daywalker: You wrote: "..so we have to convince them the extra effort is worth it by doing more than saying we want these things."
What more are we supposed to do?
One thing is never assume that the PA whose products you want to buy if they would make changes to how they make them actually visits the site for longer than to check his sales numbers. Folks like SickleYield are the exception rather than the rule; other PAs are far more likely to be found and get suggestions from potential buyers on social media than this or other forums.
... and the MORE is?
Ticket submitted. I await a reply.
If the PA says they will do what they can, be patient as they probably already have several products in QA that don't have the features you want. If they don't respond or politely say they aren't interested, so be it. And with things like Iray vs. 3Delight, PAs really do need to understand that not everyone is interested in using the product in renders as they design it to be and, while they may not see a significant number of additional sales, they should do what they can to make the product useful for the widest number of potential users.