Where are the guys?
Achillias
Posts: 89
Everyday new women, but hardly new men, let alone, manly men. We need more male characters, clothes, hair, poses etc.
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Well just lately we have had
https://www.daz3d.com/nikolas-for-genesis-3-male
https://www.daz3d.com/nino-for-genesis-3-male
https://www.daz3d.com/m3d-coen-shapes-hd-for-genesis-3-male
Thanks for your reaction, chohole, but It's not clear to me what exactly is your point. I shouldn't have made this request?
Let's be honest: if we compare the amount of male products (characters, clothes, props, hair) with the amount of female products, during the past year, we see at least a ratio of 1 to 100.
Hmm, could be the ratio of users that purchase women over men is 100 to 1, LOL
While I haven't checked it out, I believe this is the thread you are looking for
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/68371/michael-and-friends-appreciation-association-lots-of-images-please/p1
The ratio for female items will always be higher due to the demand of paying customers. You can ask, and many have asked before you, but unless you have a huge influx of people willing and able to buy male products (and not just wishlist for later), this trend will continue. Male items don't make as much money as female items, so you won't get a huge number of male items for sale.
That said, the tech is there to autofit and reuse items from previous generations.
It's not like there is not an abundance of both male and female products.
Have you really bought all the G3M product out there? Or have you a want for a particular product? You need to ask for that particular product.
You're not the first to ask, and probably won't be the last. But, PAs need to see actual sales of products they make to continue making them; as stated numerous times, male items simply do not sell in the volume that female items do. Male-M3dia is one of those rare people that do make and sell such things.
Maybe the reason for this is that they are not available. If you offer 200 females and 2 males (using the 100-to-1 ratio that was quoted), it stands to reason that more females will be sold. Maybe if the number was more even, so would the sales be more even.
To any developer out there -- I'll buy G2M characters, clothing, poses, etc.; RIGHT NOW!
I tihnk the point beimg made was that each individual female character has sold way more units of than each individual male character. That said, I have bought a lot of young G3M characters lately, and just a few young G3F characters.
(sigh)
This MAY be true but the reason why I have purchased more G3F sets than G2M sets is because more of them keep popping up. I have so many of them that I am now being VERY selective about where I spend my future purchases.G2M is an entirely different story. I would like something in addition to Scott, Lee, Gianni, Michael ...
The 100:1 ratio is a bit of an exageration. It is closer to 3:1 for Genesis 3. There are 3,134 items in the store for G3F and 1,154 for G3M. There are 1,047 for G2M. While it would be nice if there were more male items(and child items), they do not sell as well. After speaking with one PA who has been pretty good about making male as well as female characters, they said that about three times as many people buy one of their female characters as male characters. To put that in perspective, if you were offered two identical jobs, but one paid $5 per hour and the other paid $15 per hour, which would you take?
As far as getting new Genesis 2 male characters, that is highly unlikely.
I understand but if there is an interest in a certain "thing" and no onw is addressing that interest, somebody is leaving money on the table -- so to speak.
Unless a G3F has something really unique about it, I am pretty much done with adding anything to my collection. G2M, on the other hand, is an entirely different story.
I am totally in support of male content, and have jousted this particular windmill a score of times. The end result is that usually Pa's tell us it doesn't sell, and selling men's content is frequently risky. That doesn't really overcome the issues of needing or wanting men's content but it is an explanation even if it is one I don't want to hear.
I'd love more men's content. I've posted wanting more men's hairstyles, not the unisex women's stuff we are being given right now for men. I'd also like specific men's clothing, and better modelling on things like hands, and shoulders.
Inevitably someone tells me to make it myself etc.....
So, I totally agree we need more mens' content. I wish we could get it.
Despite how my previous post may have sounded, I would like more male content as well. Specificly pajamas, arctic expedition clothes and parkas, a modern cowboy outfit, a tennis outfit, and swimwear among others. The reason I doubt that much new G2M content will be released is because we have had G3M for a couple of years and the release of Genesis 4 is getting closer. With the exception of V4, M4, and Aiko 3, once a new generation of figures is released, new content for the previous generations drops off rather quickly.
For Candybonanza, have you tried the GenX2 products to transfer morphs and clothing to G2M from Genesis, M4, and David 3? You can even transfer morphs from G3M. With the clones from Sickleyield, you can also transfer clothes from G3M to G2M. Also, Genesis and M4 poses work reasonably well on G2M, but do require a little tweaking. These may expand your resources a bit. My prefered figure is Genesis, but I have some Genesis 2 and 3 content which I am able to use with Genesis because of the utilities and clones which are available. Finally, if you decide to start buying G3M characters and content, that doesn't mean you have to stop using your G2M content.
I've seen this mentioned in the past but am not too sure how to do it. Is there a link / tutorial around?
I know that with the exception of shoes, I can use Genesis & G3M stuff with my G2M characters with only minor issues but if I could get the posing stuff working, that would really be a plus. Thanks again for the suggestion.
The best way to get more male content (or practical female content, or historical content, etc.) is to try to recruit users for that content type so that people see sales pick up and make more items to meet the rising demand.
Please pay attention and re-read my previous post. Male sales are lower than female sales because the damand is lower. Period. You have to increase the pool of buyers, not the amount of content because vendors are already losing money on male items, particually more complex ones. And the sales have been shtrinking even more with each generation. And from a vendor point of view the G2M content ship has sailed, so there's no point in asking.. and this comes from a vendor that has been selling for about 9 years and having to ditch projects when a new generation comes out because they will sell like crap when the new generation comes out. Of course if you disagree, feel free to become a vendor and learn what I've learned rather than telling vendors what they should be doing when you don't have the experience to do so.
You would think with the number of times PAs have said that items for males sell fewer copies, this would be a common sense response from the community...
Well I recently bought every V3/M3 Spanish and Far Eastern themed outfit based on a thread in the forums which also necessitates another Wear Them All product be bought and I will also buy the Egyptian themed and then later Genesis versions of newer Far Eastern, Indian, Arabic, and modern Western outfits (meaning Edwardian, Victorian, Georgian, ... western clothing).
I don't think there is a lack of content if you are willing to use the various autofit products but if sales of new items are not great outside of new DO model bundles I don't expect that the themed clothing will get much development effort made on it if their sales are just as good using a slightly altered version of a warrior bikini.
If clothing dynamics is ever improved & integrated in DS and made to work with all these clothing versions it might be a boon for sales of old clothing and PC+ memberships.
Thank you for still being around and making the awesome packages you do.
Candybonanza, there is a PDF manual that comes with GenX2. You can download it seperatly on the readme page http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/18321/start
Don't give up on autofitting shoes, some of them will work. Zev0's Fit Control can also help tame unruly autofitted clothes. As far as poses go, just apply them normally, then select the figure part by part and take care of any glaring problems. Sometimes a pose will look fine, other times it will need some work. I tend to consider all poses as just the starting point and go in and adjust them to the way I want them.
Edit: a little more detail on adjusting poses. You will want both your Scene and either Parameters or Posing tabs open. Select the body part in the Scene tab and you will see several sliders in the Parameters/Posing tab which can be adjusted. I would suggest https://www.daz3d.com/great-art-now-step-3-posing-and-morphing as well as the rest of Dreamlights Great Art Now tutorials. They are pretty basic, but are free and may give you information you hadn't known.
I would suggest offering to pay upfront for a PA to make a product, not what you would buy from the store, but whatever the difference in the profit is for them.
... Or perhaps get a Kickstarter funding event going, see what you get; that way PAs see if it is worth their while before spending a fairly considerable time on the project.
I sympathise with you, but I would be against taking a paycut, and expect others to feel the same.
There are lots of male products out there, they sell for a lot less.
My own perspective is, "there are too many male characters, we need more females."
Actually 'we' should be substituted with I.
I haven't had much issue converting shoes between generations using products such as "Wear them all" or any of DAZ3D's clones. I've converted M4 shoes and boots by changing M4's foot pose to Genesis and creating objs from that and using the transfer tool to conform to genesis. I use zbrush to tweak the shapes and Zbrush Core would do the same thing and costs only $150.. that's just a few pieces of content if you save up.. but is pretty invaluable in converting old content to fit new. That's what I've done to salvage old outfits and i can get them looking good on newer versions of genesis after about an hour of work. Though it would be nice to have lots of new content, things are much better now than in the M3/M4 days where you can fill in the gaps of what you need by tweaking content and using DAZ Studio's built in tools.
For what it's worth, I've got exactly 2 products in the store. Feel free to take this with a grain of salt. When we developed Creech Evolution, It was a real sticking point for me that it have a version for both male and female. I'd have to say that both sold well, but the male version far, far out sold the female version. Now I realize that this is a bit of a niche character and not exactly like human characters, but it does make me wonder if perhaps the belief that female characters always sell better isn't the culprit here. Do female characters always out sell the males? It's hard to quantify since you have different PA's and different products so it's never apples to apples, but in my little corner of the Daz store, the male sold a 3rd more than the female.
Your product is different than what is being discussed. Male creatures will outsell female creatures, and fantasy creatures fall into a different category than asking for male outfits and human characters. You can quickly look at, ahem, certain artwork sites, to see where there will be a male creature in the render with a female and not the other way around.
The key is that a large component of the market want to make renders of cute/sexy chicks wearing little to nothing in various cute/sexy poses.
The thing about 'critters' is that the 'weird things' market is a small subset, and that subset is a LOT less dominated by cute glamor pinup thing (as are other potential topics, like '1920s gangster' or whatever. You want mols and fedora gunmen)
I think something like Patreon or some fronting service where people could put money into a project ahead of time would be good, at least for more established PAs, so that when they feel like putting out a male figure but don't want to gamble on 'ramen for 3 months', they can see if interest is there _really_.
Because the thing is, people can say they want stuff, but the proof is in the actual cash.
Boy I couldn't agree more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is my perception only but I think advertising men's content is a bit lackluster and the store is very comfortable in the direction of focusing on sexy female content and development and a whole lot less comfortable with male content in the same vein. The store has a fairly strong and dominant customer base who like the same thing- sexy women . Most of the time the lions share of advertising and focus is on development of content that focuses on that target group. Male stuff is here but mostly to compliment the female content market in the same way Ken compliments Barbie.
I appreciate vendors who defy the norm by creating men's content. At the same time I think that spending more time on making quality base male figures with some decent basics would help vastly. I don't need 20 barbarian and Greco Roman outfits or more Mohawks or gothic rocker outfits. If there is going to be less male content I really could use well done basic stuff. The challenge with men's stuff is frequently it can be quite niche. More broadly usable stuff might produce sales. As could a bit more advertising. Right now daz3d is really not widely known as a place to buy guy content.
I think perhaps a small men's store within daz3d might help locate and focus sales of that content a bit better.
The thing is, Serene, while that sounds awesome... on what do you base the notion that it will do better, or better enough?
As I said this is my perception, so no one can say for sure.
We are sort of in a holding pattern with men's content. Even sinking a bit, as I don't think the latest men's pro bundles have been really good sellers.
I think any categorization will quite frankly improve sales by making stuff easier to find. And presumably as the store expands and grows it will set a better foundation for how content is marketed and displayed. Having a distinct category will provide the simple function of making it somewhat easier to find amidst the sea of Vicky content.
Right now status quo is not doing much if at all for men's category stuff.