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What I will do is give a plain English explanation and then provide links to the more advanced info on a certain aspect
Einstein who? ....only kidding. Yeah E=MC2 is simple alright. :)
Absolutely,
Obviously you know what you're doing, but, the trick is to try to put yourself in the position of someone that doesn't and is reading it for the first time. If you can't tell yourself how to do it then you won't be able to tell others.
CHEERS!
Exactly what I am trying to...hopefully. LOL
Pete, dear, it saddens me to see you spreading misinformation.
Omnifreaker's shaders are indeed suspected of using not the built-in 3Delight SSS function but some sort of his own proprietary implementation (not verified, though), and yet it is true SSS, calculating light transport below the surface, just like in AoA's shader or pwSurface, not any "fake scatter" of the DAZMaterial "skin" mode fame.
In other words... have you just called me a "cheater"?! LOL
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/21611/P240/#496074 - Scroll down for images; they're as quick as it gets, lo-res genesis textures without much specular sophistication or interesting lighting, but IMO proof enough that US and US2 handle mesh thickness just fine.
Note I'm using the correct scale that converts DS units to 3Delight units.
"Since geometry is rarely specified in millimeters, a scaling factor, which is applied to the given parameters, can also be provided to 3Delight. For example, specifying a scale of `0.1' means that geometry data is specified in centimeters (objects are ten times bigger). " - source: http://www.3delight.com/en/uploads/docs/3delight/3delight_40.html#SEC170
BTW, the ShaderMixer SSS brick in AoA's shader uses the same correct scale by default.
...There are folks who manage to get great-looking results by using more translucent scales for skin (1 and above), like Wowie, but I find that approach way too complicated. For my minimalist style, I'm getting more consistent and believable results with the "textbook" scale, even switching between various figures (Sixus1's HER: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/21611/P30/#318738 - why ever mention different figures? well, at more translucent scales geometry starts affecting scatter rather noticeably)
Either way - AoA's shader appears to be much more sensitive to lights, SSS-wise, than the Omnifreaker family, especially to IBL maps. It's hard to pinpoint why - we do not have access to omnifreaker's source code, while AoA's SMixer network is _immensely_vast_ i.e. hard to really make sense of - but maybe this sensitivity is why people tend to gravitate towards AoA's shader (easier to get it extra translucent, especially in the "pre" mode).
Example of light sensitivity, AoA's SSSShader vs US2: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/21611/P150/#334435
OK I got the "cheat" bit wrong and I stand corrected, thanks for that, this is what I need, clarification. Thanks for popping in and slapping me around a bit. :)
As for the rest as you said yourself AoA seems more sensitive to light and I did say we could do the same in US/2. I have successfully gotten glowing ears etc via US/2 but it is a bit of a fiddle.
I'm curious now, why do you find it to be a fiddle?
Well I should say I found it a fiddle 18 months back now I am not sure as I haven't even tested it with the new rig. I just remember me having issue getting the glowing ears or sss between fingers. Also this was before you helping me understand SSS Scale and Shading Rate over on dA. Since then things have fallen into place but with the old rig I was having US/2 issues where it would render sss and then it wouldn't and this was without changing any settings.
When I come to Skin in this tutorial I will be back testing this properly and I have more knowledge about all sorts of things in Daz Studio that will help.
Just chiming in.
With US2, when tuning/tweaking SSS, I find it best to turn the SSS strength all the way up (90 or 100%) with scattering/absorption strength set to 1/2 (scatter 1, absorption 2). This will give you a very heavy translucent look. From then, tweak SSS scale to your liking. If you want really strong glow, it's best to raise the backscatter boost up to something like 5 rather than upping the SSS scale.
If you want to tone down the SSS translucent strength , raise the absorption strength as opposed to messing with the diffuse/SSS strength.
If you find you're losing too much diffuse details, you can add them back on the second diffuse layer. You also can benefit from the added flexibility of having two diffuse roughness settings.
Hi wowie,
could you please show in screenprints of the controlls, what you are describing in too technical words.
For newbies that would be easier to understand.
Please show what screws you're turning for which effect.
Thank you.
Andy
Sure. No problem.
With the above setup, you'll get something like this.
If you turn up the absorption strength, the translucence will be weaker.
Now, if you want more glow on the ears, turn up backscatter boost. For the image below, I've cranked it all the way up to 10.
In contrast, here's what you'll get if you turn up the SSS scale. I've turned it to 4. Everything else is the set the same as the second render.
With backscatter boost, it's easier to strengthen SSS to limited areas. With HSS, this is only possible with an SSS strength map combined with a very strong SSS strength and (probably) scale. I think UberSurface has the same controls as US2, but it lacks the layered flexibility and fresnel specular to get highlights looking right.
I've moved the light and turn down backscatter boost to 7.5 for this shot.
The reason I'm using a higher SSS scale than what is physically correct is performance and flexibility. Higher SSS scale means the lights enters more deeply into the skin, but I've countered that by setting higher absorption strength and boosting the backscatter so SSS on the outermost edges are more 'pronounced'. Essentially, giving back some of the SSS strength lost from setting a higher absorption.
A higher SSS scale is also faster to render and less prone to SSS shading rate problems. I can get away with an SSS shading rate of 8 on close up shots and 4 on full body shots.
More like HSS. There's no separate absorption/scatter controls in the original UberSurface.
There's one thing I can't seem to understand about the US2 controls. I found that specifying a particular scatter colour tints your material the opposite hue, unlike absorption colour. Your screenshots show you've found the same.
But I've always thought that _scattered_ wavelengths are those that get into your eyes. And absorbed wavelengths remain in the material. It's what the wiki says as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color#Color_of_objects
However, in everything else, when changing strengths, scatter behaves like scatter should, same with absorption...
It's probably due to the way the shader was written. I'm guessing it is easier to remove color than adding to it (for the scatter). I do wish he was better at documenting these features.
Speaking of US2 issues... I'm still kinda irked US2 doesn't seem to have been recompiled for the new 3Delight version.
And if you run shaderdl --reccompile-sdl on it you get the 'no embedded source' error, so it won't automatically recompile on its own...
You'd think someone at DAZ should've gotten in touch with Omnifreaker to ask him to do just one little recompile. But no. As usual, it's the simplest and yet vital stuff that never gets updated, while new female figures are being churned out by the hour.
Yeah don't worry I will be asking Omni myself soon. I have a nice list of questions for him. :)
Awesome! If you ever get a chance, would you please slip in the question about just how exactly "SSS is based on Diffuse" in his shaders? Like, Fresnel-based mix, or what?
Here's a quote from Carrara manual that says the Fresnel stuff best of all, or at least better than I can now because I'm tired:
Fresnel Effect controls how the subsurface scattering and the rest of the lighting is mixed. 100%
is the most physically realistic. In that case, when the surface is facing the observer, the light is
96% of subsurface scattering and 4% of light reflected from the surface. When the surface is
seen from the side it is the contrary. When the slider is at 0, the subsurface scattering is simply
added to the light reflected by the surface.
LOL Yeah they are on my list already. :)
Well, if you can get him to recompile the shaders, can you ask him about adding specular to UberEnvironment. Preferably with its own controls? Or at least for UberAreaLight. That would just be so awesome.
wowie yes I also have questions UE2 and Area lights but I will be keeping those questions for when I redo the Area light tut and make a new UE2 tut. I am now working on Uber surface full time very soon. I asked Omni some months ago about questions I have and he replied saying he will help as much as he can but for me I would like to keep them separate and deal with each tut at that time
I have just got a new pup so my time is occupied with settling him in. After that I will be working on some tuts full time and this is billed second.
You forget about all the skimp wear.
:)
roflol I hear that.
Well, if you can get him to recompile the shaders, can you ask him about adding specular to UberEnvironment. Preferably with its own controls? Or at least for UberAreaLight. That would just be so awesome.
Area light probably can't have specularity controls added...it is a surface shader, after all.
UE SHOULD be able to do specular light...already, but not sure why it doesn't.
I thought that might be the case with Area Lighting but I was going to ask the question anyway.....you just never know. :)
I know getting better spec in UE2 should be possible as ahEnvironment had excellent specular controls. Shame that was never updated.
dzAreaLight actually handles spec-only // diffuse-only modes just fine. I think it's all about the __nonspecular and __nondiffuse variables. For directional lights and area lights, Studio understands them (even if you don't connect them to any code in the shader builder) and creates that "On / Diffuse only / Specular only" switch in the "Illumination" interface section automagically. But I don't think it does the automagic for environment lights... But, for instance, I can still get envlight2 to cast either or both when setting these variables to 1 or 0 manually in the shader builder.
So maybe if we ask pretty enough, Omnifreaker will be able to implement this in an update, since it does not seem that difficult. Maybe.
The code that UA seems to be based on was a diffuse only light...
The dzArealight seems to be very close to the 'standard' one.