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Daz Studio HSS, US and US2 Tutorial planned but want feedback first

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  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    Yeah, it's rendered in DS.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    sweet thanks again

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    mjc1016 said:
    Szark said:
    LOL that went straight through one ear and out the other evilded. Got any links to show how to do this? I am presuming it is with the external 3delight render engine (free)? I know of threads discussing this but I get lost at page 2 in the main one. There are no Step 1 > step 2 > etc.

    In the render settings, the selection box for Render Engine, there is a selection for Scripted 3Delight. If you choose that, there is another group of options listed below...the scripts you can use. One of them is the Pointcloud render.

    Just for the first time...take a scene and flip that on and render...don't change anything, just render...then come back and we'll move you on to the next steps.Ok flipped it on to Point-Based Occlusion and it came out quite dark but I can see the settings for intensity etc. Interesting that is took longer of default settings than a normal render on higher settings, is that normal?

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    Mustakettu85 said:

    It does look good. Would you share the settings, please?


    Here you go

    Uber Surface

    Diffuse 7,7,7
    Diffuse Strength 70%
    Diffuse Roughness 0.80

    IOR 1.46

    Bump and Displacement
    Bump default settings with a homemade noise map in Tiff 16 bit format
    Displacement same Tiff as abovw 100% min -0.020 max 0.020

    Raytrace Reflections
    Reflection Colour 79,79,79
    Reflection Strength 5%
    Reflection Blur 20%

    Fresnel ON
    Fresnel Strength 70%
    Fresnel Falloff 1.00

    Velvet ON
    Velvet Colour 72,72,72
    Velvet Strength 70%
    Velvet Falloff 7.50

    SSS
    SSS Colour 4,4,4
    SSS Strength 30%
    SSS IOR 1.46
    SSS Scale 0.10
    SSS Shading Rate 2.00

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,465
    edited December 1969

    Szark said:
    mjc1016 said:
    Szark said:
    LOL that went straight through one ear and out the other evilded. Got any links to show how to do this? I am presuming it is with the external 3delight render engine (free)? I know of threads discussing this but I get lost at page 2 in the main one. There are no Step 1 > step 2 > etc.

    In the render settings, the selection box for Render Engine, there is a selection for Scripted 3Delight. If you choose that, there is another group of options listed below...the scripts you can use. One of them is the Pointcloud render.

    Just for the first time...take a scene and flip that on and render...don't change anything, just render...then come back and we'll move you on to the next steps.

    Ok flipped it on to Point-Based Occlusion and it came out quite dark but I can see the settings for intensity etc. Interesting that is took longer of default settings than a normal render on higher settings, is that normal?

    You'll need to set your render settings as you would with a normal 3Delight render, as they do not transfer over. If you had GC previously, that is likely why it was dark.

    Did you leave the simple occlusion light on? If you had something already providing occlusion like UE, that would have slowed it down I imagine.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    Yeah I get that I have to set up the render settings manually, thanks. GC?? I am just using UE2 IDL with soft shadows and yes I left it in the scene turn ON. I see the Occlusion light settings too and understand them.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    smftrsd72 said:
    Hello Pete,

    what were your parameters for the "low res" picture? That even looks good - without these noisy shadow zones you normally get for low quality renders.

    sorry I can't for the life of me remember what the render and UE2 settings were. I think it was shading rate of o.50 and 2X UE2 quality preset. Though I did have Pixel Samples X and Y at 12 in the render settings
  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,465
    edited December 1969

    Szark said:
    Yeah I get that I have to set up the render settings manually, thanks. GC?? I am just using UE2 IDL with soft shadows and yes I left it in the scene turn ON. I see the Occlusion light settings too and understand them.

    Sorry, Gamma Correction.

    I'm surprised that you would find it slower and darker, but it does not always perform as expected. In general I get brighter, faster renders when rendering with the point cloud, especially when using IDL of any kind.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    I will keep playing and see what happens

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    evilded777 said:
    Szark said:
    Yeah I get that I have to set up the render settings manually, thanks. GC?? I am just using UE2 IDL with soft shadows and yes I left it in the scene turn ON. I see the Occlusion light settings too and understand them.

    Sorry, Gamma Correction.

    I'm surprised that you would find it slower and darker, but it does not always perform as expected. In general I get brighter, faster renders when rendering with the point cloud, especially when using IDL of any kind.

    I have found that with the included light it is faster and with UE by itself, it's faster...but both together can slow things down to a crawl. The DZDefaultlights work very well with the point cloud script.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    So I should be using either or but not both, cheers.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    Yeah...usually if I'm already using a light with occlusion, I shut off the included one. If I don't have one, I'll leave it on. Or if I don't even have any lights yet, it stays on.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    Thanks again I am on the same page now. Going to play a little today.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    I tried Point Cloud and figured it all out.....yes very speedy when done right. ;) Thanks evilded and mjc

    But like AoA's lights http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/27675/P1245/#567499 I get the same artefacts when using dzlights when using point cloud and without. I don't get this when I use Uber points Anyone have any ideas what is causing it.. I have tested using different shading rates as low as 0,10, pixel samples X and Y 24. changed the pixel filter settings etc etc. I did multiple tests with just changing one setting at a time. I did the same with AoA's lights and still it happens. I thought it might be Uber Surafce so I fiddled with that to. Spent all day trying to figure it out and I noticed it was in my last render a few pages back.

    Here is a AOA Ambient light and 3 Uber Points render

    rs9c.png
    1500 x 843 - 2M
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    Did you ever change the Cloud Shading Rate?

    It's under the Point Cloud item in the options for the script....

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    yes to 0,10

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited March 2014

    Replacing UE2 at Max Ray Trace depth of 3 with one AoA Ambient light or Point cloud makes a 14 hours render to just over 2 hours at a Max Ray Trace depth of 4.

    3 Uber Spots and Scripted Render with Point cloud and occulsion

    rs9e.png
    1500 x 843 - 2M
    Post edited by Szark on
  • Takeo.KenseiTakeo.Kensei Posts: 1,303
    edited March 2014

    Szark said:
    yes to 0,10

    Put your Cloud shading rate at 4 or more. When rendering in Point cloud mode you don't need a lot of points to compute the occlusion or others effects. The shader calculations will occure on each point of the cloud and the rest will be interpolated

    That is why this tech is used. It can yield tremendous speed gain. But you have to know a bit how to use it

    When using a cloud shading rate of 0.1 you are making a very dense cloud which means a lot of (unnecessary) calculations.

    Post edited by Takeo.Kensei on
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    Thank you Takeo I will give that a try once I go through your post looking up what certain words mean. ;)

  • Takeo.KenseiTakeo.Kensei Posts: 1,303
    edited December 1969

    Lol just ask when you don't understand. I'll try to rephrase or eventually make some quick schema or screen captures to get you to understand the process

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    Thanks but I like to find out myself (helps me learn better if I go looking) which I have and now I understand but I will bare that in mind for the future, just in case. ;)

    I am really liking the Point Cloud thingy. I have noticed that the surfaces and light strength need adjusting when using it but I love the speed and quality.

  • Takeo.KenseiTakeo.Kensei Posts: 1,303
    edited March 2014

    That is the good attitude. It is always better to try to understand on it's own. That is the best way to understand and memorize thing

    I've just read the preceding posts and I just understood what you were seeking and I'm afraid what I told you can't help for your problem with uberpoints (that I don't have so I don"t know how these work. I'm of little help there). What I said about the cloud shading rate will just have a speed impact. Sorry

    I would seek for a quality knob on the uberspot if I was you as it seems to be some problems on reflection. If there aren't then you'll be limited to plaing with max trace depth as you've already did if I'm right

    Post edited by Takeo.Kensei on
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    Thanks yes I have learnt that way all my life and only recently have been asking for help and buzzing from it.

    Uber lights aren't the problem with causing artefacts. It happens with AoA's Advanced Spot and dzpoint shader lights but thanks anyway for looking. much appreciated Takeo

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    Szark said:
    Thanks yes I have learnt that way all my life and only recently have been asking for help and buzzing from it.

    Uber lights aren't the problem with causing artefacts. It happens with AoA's Advanced Spot and dzpoint shader lights but thanks anyway for looking. much appreciated Takeo

    I'm not quite able to reproduce that effect...what is the metallic shader you are using on the legs? (don't have uberspots/points, so I can't test those)

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    Thanks Mjc. Uber Surface with no spec at all, 100% reflection a light grey, Diffuse Grey blue, 1.00 blur, Fresnel 10% (could do with being higher for Point Cloud me thinks which I am testing now) fall off 0.40 again trying 1.00 and Fresnel sharpness 80% IOR 2.50.

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933
    edited December 1969

    Takeo.Kensei said:

    For what I know you have Fresnel everywhere and as you have reflections in metals you have a Fresnel term http://sirkan.iit.bme.hu/~szirmay/fresnel.pdf

    Thanks! But that would be that "micro" effect of Fresnel which gives the "metallic" colour shift to reflected light, right? The shift we are used to faking through explicitly setting spec/reflection colours. Not the general "macro" dielectric Fresnel thing that makes reflection at glancing angles stronger overall, without colour shifting.

    And the Fresnel term in the Uber family (and in generally popular shading models like Cook-Torrance as well, I think) only works for the latter, "macro" effect.

    As for "how"... now that's a question I´d like to ask Omnifreaker actually, "how come you did not include at least an option to properly base Fresnel on IOR?!" LOL It's a giant pain to try and approximate real IOR-based Fresnel behaviour with those controls.

    Speaking of "physically plausible" shading, have you tried it? I haven't yet... I'm still basically teaching myself to write "oldschool" RSL, I'm not sure it's worth skipping the "basics" in favour of the shiniest toys...

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933
    edited December 1969

    Szark said:

    Here you go
    ...

    Thanks a lot! How interesting, I'd never thought of using any reflection for rubber/foam...

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited March 2014

    my pleasure.
    I read that nearly every surface in nature is reflective at some degree and that there is never a true matt surface and though we don't see I it as it is so subtle.

    Post edited by Szark on
  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933
    edited December 1969

    Szark said:
    my pleasure.
    I read that nearly every surface in nature is reflective at some degree and that there is never a true matt surface and though we don't see I it as it is so subtle.

    Yes it's true... it's just that I got used to using reflections for more or less "mirror-like" surfaces only, since mapped reflections glow in the dark, and blurred raytraced reflections are slow...

    Here's a couple of cool posts from John Hable's site, in case there is anyone here who's missed them:
    http://filmicgames.com/archives/547
    http://filmicgames.com/archives/557

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    Sweet. I hear you as I had a 32 bit system but now that I have upgraded I can push the boat out using ray traced blurred reflections.

    I will take a look at those links later after my evening meal, thank you.

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