Anyone interested in a camera tracking solution for DS?

Orion_Uk

Hi everyone :)

I have been talking with a programer and we are wondering what level of interest a script for exprting Syntheyes/after effects data (pos others) to Daz studio for use with Daz studio renderer and/or Octane Render plugin (maybe other renderers also) would be like?

There was a Syntheyes to Daz script around a while back but from my understanding it no longer works and is not being worked on..

Your thoughts please?

Thanks, Orion_uk.

linvanchene

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Orion_Uk

HI linvanchene,

Thanks for your reply..

I am with the kids until later this evening so will give you the reply your post deserves thenk ok ;)

I wont mention who MIGHT be working on the plugin/script as it is NOT definate at the moment and I would not want to have people bother the person in concern with loads of questions when they already have more than enough to deal with right now :) IF they choose to reveal who they are, thats up to them :)

I am just `sticking the feelers out` to gauge interest at this point is all ;)

You raised some interesting points which I will try to go in to later, thanks :D

EDIT: Changed thread title as u have a Gd point ;)

linvanchene

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Orion_Uk

Hi linvanchene :D

I am VERY interested in finally getting any kind of camera tracking into DS.

If the only way to do it is to make it with Syntheyes then go for it.

Thats great news.. maybe show a few people this thread who might be interested plz ;)

BUT:

My first choice of camera tracking would be a solution that lets me export / import between DS and Adobe After Effects CS6

I dont own After Effects so you can see my priority :P

Maybe one does not exclude the other. As far as I know Syntheyes is also compatible with After Effects so any solution that works with one of them might be adjusted to work with both of them?

Syntheyes 2011 Export has:

After Effects JAVA
After Effects 2-d clipboard
After Effects via .ms (Maya?)

After all it might be the best thing for everyone if the plugin would support as many applications as possible:
After Effects
Syntheyes
Nuke
Fusion

Completely agree, For sure :D

But I can see how it might be quicker to just support one application first. And Nuke and Fusion are probably out of the price range of most people on this forum… So I would prioritize After Effects and Syntheyes.

Your prob right there ;)

But would there not be a larger crowd interested in a camera tracking plugin for DS no matter the render engine?

Quite right, I personaly just dont want to come across as being greedy to someone who offered to help me as a thank you for helping them by asking too much :P This idea started as an offer of gratitude to me with something I said I could do with, Having spoken a bit more, mr Anon seems keen on After Effects (at least) as he has it :D

All people who are using DS could then use it no matter what they are using to render.

Bring in the masses I say.. our (possible) kind contributer feels strongly about giving to the community as a whole :D

linvanchene

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Orion_Uk

Hi linvanchene:D

Thank you for leaving such helpful information to share with people on why this is so important ;)

Your post will be most helpful to those who may be unaware of the benefits of having this addition to Daz Studio, and your input is most gratefully received for sure :D

I remember buying the SynthEyes INTENSE full training course from CMI VFX when it first came out, Sebastian did an amazing job on that and I got a lot from following his easy method of tuition :D

Orion_Uk

Seriously... only one other person interested so far !

I seem to remember speaking to lots of people over the years who said this would be an awesome asset, where are you all now???

linvanchene

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Joe Cotter

Ok, camera tracking... really you are cutting edge here imo. It's not that people aren't interested so much as people aren't to that stage yet. Mixing rendered and rl footage is something that will be a *big* thing imo, but it will be coming, not now. So, I would say yes... jump in. It will take time to work out issues related to this and you will be at the forefront possibly when it does, just don't expect an immediate payoff. As to application support, AE definitely... anything else is secondary I believe, except possibly my second recommendation, C4D... one could argue either one as first as they would be neck and neck. Blender, third. Blender will be a strong contender going forward as it has a strong video compositing base already and if someone were able to automate output to Blender it would be snapped up by some guaranteed. It could even be argued for first place also by some with strong credibility. It's all a gamble going for the future like this, but it can have big payoffs. Good luck :)

[Edit] I should mention that all of these have camera tracking built in to some extent either directly or through popular plugins. The strategy would be to tie into the camera tracking already in place, make a transfer type of utility. The job of supporting various platforms isn't as daunting when realizing this.

Orion_Uk

Hi linvanchene & Gedd, Thanks for your replys :D

@linvanchene:

One speculation of mine is that all people who have knowledge of video skills and are familiar with syntheyes and adobe and other advanced software and DAZ studio are visiting the DAZ forum very rarely.

I fear you could be right on this one :(

It does not help that there are so many posts on the DAZ forum that topics vanish from the first page very quickly.

I guess its the nature of the beast and comes part & parcel with forum `life`, sadly.

The real issue may be that most people are just not doing any animations with DS.

With such awesome additions like Octane Render, Luxus & Reality for Ds, this saddens me to think that could even be possible :P

Maybe the only thing we can do to change the situation is to actually start making cool animations so that other people realize that it is possible now and then suddenly the demand for more supporting features will rise.

With luck, we could get our hands on a beta script/plugin that would allow us to do `the basics` of importing the data in to Ds and that way we could `build the hype` and get people more and more interested as development progressed, should this dream become a reality :D

Nevertheless it seems we are stuck in some kind of loop. Without supporting features like camera tracking data it is somewhat difficult to make decent animations

I was thinking about doing this, in a way! Russ Anderson (Syntheyes Dev) gave me the idea of importing collada data generated from Syntheyes in to Ds to match up the scene then delete/hide the collada stuff before rendering, not the ideal way of doing things but a work possible around (for now) none the less, I will try it when I next get some free time!

Unless:

Imagine if there was some kind of DAZ feature request newsletter that people could subscribe to with their e-mails.

Any time a developer has an idea for a new plugin he could then send out e-mails to all those people and get some feedback how many of the early adopters would be interested.

This could also be implemented with a simple check box in each DAZ account:

Do you want to get newsletters by developers who want feedback for new plugins and features?.

Yes, I would be most happy to get information from devs regarding ideas and possible future release info:D

Maybe the best way to go about this is if the potential developer is contacting DAZ directly and asks for help how to find out how many people might be interested.

While that’s a great idea, That would have to be arranged out side of Daz 3D`s commitments. I think that Daz would rather minimise adding to the current work load and continue to focus on creating/re-releasing more & more characters (old & new) for Genesis and other store content, to keep their bread buttered, why else would Carrara 8.1 end up not getting MANY/all its issues fixed at all, and Carrara 8.5 STILL be in beta after so long? SO (before I get in to a massive rant) Maybe A devs section in the forum and people could just sub to that to keep updated/keep in touch?

Maybe subscribing here would help:

Product suggestions: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/categories/33/
Developer Discussions: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/categories/60/

Devs could post a thread/sticky saying what they intend to do and request that people PM them directly an email address where they can recieve updates & info to their in box (should you not wish to keep having to search through threads & posts that constantly get lost by the fast arrival of newer threads/posts :D

Maybe they could share with the developer how many people purchased tools like keyMate and graphMate.

I wonder (not being a dev myself) if devs have that much direct contact with Daz 3D? Could there be something like this that Devs sub to? A news letter for Daz2Devs that shares info on sales and stats!

.. hhmm?, a great idea eh Daz???

there is only a low chance that any DAZ staff will read any of this and offer help on their own.

A low chance is better than NO chance in my book :D

Thanks for some great ideas, gonna take me a while to mull em over, see if I can dust the cobwebs of those rusty gears in my head :P

@Gedd:

really you are cutting edge here imo

Really? No offence meant here at all, and please excuse me if any of this comes out wrong as I am extremely tired right now but.. I don t think so any more! Programs like Boujou, PF track/PF hoe, Syntheyes and Voodoo Camera tracker have been out for MANY many years now. Sure AE & Hitfilm Ultimate have jumped on that wagon quite recently along with Blender (Tomato branch) heck, even Carrara can import tracking data from syntheyes sinice 8.1 Pro. The ability to do tracking on either zero or a low(ish) budget has been around for ages in my book :P

It’s not that people aren’t interested so much as people aren’t to that stage yet

I have been lucky to have discovered tracking quite early and while there are many people out there at different levels of interest and abillity, I do feel tracking is creeping in to the hobbyists home and personal projects more & more (rather than just the pros office, esp since Blender getting tracking tools and the release of Hitfilm) these days.. something I can only be pleased about :D

Mixing rendered and rl footage is something that will be a *big* thing imo, but it will be coming, not now. So, I would say yes… jump in

I have been following projects and tutorials on youtube for many years, and to be honest, I have learnt from people who are either still in school or retired, Such an age range and (if you look at the dates some of these videos were posted) such variety between pros and hobbyists, I think people are at that stage now and are ready to jump in, just like I did ;)

Here, Take a look:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=camera+tracking+match+moving+youtube&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a

if someone were able to automate output to Blender it would be snapped up by some guaranteed
Not sure what you mean by "automate output to Blender" ? Blender has its own tracking/match moving tools & can import data from Syntheyes. Do you mean exporting Daz scenes to Blender? Maybe its just me (being nearly 3am here and I need sleep! But, if I am correct in what I think you are saying..

To make it go in line with the subject of this thread, You would want to track your movie in After Effects (in my case, Syntheyes) Then you would want to (like me) import your tracking data in to Daz studio and add your 3D content to the scene. At this point, I would render my animation (with Octane Render for Ds) and export the PNG sequence to my apps for further work such as comp work in Hitfilm Ultimate or editing in Sony Vega. You would want to do the comp work in Blender, right? As long as I can get my tracking data in to Ds and add my/Daz content and render it out (pref with Octane Render for Ds) with the options of either the origional tracked footage in the background or the ability to change the video footage to a sold green or blue, I would be most happy indeed :D

We need to keep in mind that there is only a small chance of this happening and to what level is down to the dev in question. He said he would like to help me out as a small thank you, the last thing I wish to do is get him bogged down with a project that defects him from his own work/bread & butter or over steps the mark of his generosity. At the beginning of the conversation with him I said I would love a way to get camera data from Syntheyes to Daz Studio (thats it) and he said he could help me with that as a way to thank me for some help I gave him (thats all that was discussed) we had a brief discussion via PM I wondered what level of interest such a script/plugin would get from the forum here. So I posted this thread and gave him the link. He is knees deep in another project right now and I am respecting his need to work on his current project, I will jog his mind when I get the impression that development on his other project has slowed down or will wait for him to approach me with additional news, I think that’s best :)

Thank you both for your input, its much appreciated indeed..

Sorry for the long and babbling reply, Now, I realy MUST get some sleep :P

Joe Cotter

Orion_Uk said:

...
@Gedd:

really you are cutting edge here imo

Really? No offence meant here at all, and please excuse me if any of this comes out wrong as I am extremely tired right now but.. I don t think so any more...
I was referring to this particular market, ... the DAZ marketplace, not the industry as a whole. I assumed you understood that.

On the tracking data we are talking separate things... I'm not sure how to clarify without a lot of discussion and since I'm tired atm... it sounds like a lot of typing.

[Edit] after re-reading your post it's not so far off, I'm just to tired to think clearly right now.

Orion_Uk

I was referring to this particular market, ... the DAZ marketplace, not the industry as a whole. I assumed you understood that.

Sorry, lack of sleep had me misunderstanding you.

On the tracking data we are talking separate things... I'm not sure how to clarify without a lot of discussion and since I'm tired atm... it sounds like a lot of typing.

I know the feeling and maybe should have posted my reply after 40 (or 100) winks :D

[Edit] after re-reading your post it's not so far off, I'm just to tired to think clearly right now.

I am just a hobbyist so a lot people here (that are more than hobbyist) will have a much better grasp of whats needed, I only know what I would like added to compliment my current tool set, at least I am in the right place where I can learn from people when I get things wrong or misunderstand :D

On the bright side, having finally got 6 hours sleep has helped prepare me for the day ahead ;)

Orion_Uk

@Gedd..

HI,

Just felt I had to explain something..

Smileys dont seem to be showing up in my browser (firefox) and the following statment was displayed incorrectly, sorry!

While it read as "Sorry, lack of sleep had me misunderstanding you rasberry."

It was meant to say "Sorry, lack of sleep had me misunderstanding you (with a silly smiley at the end!)"

Hope you didnt think I was calling you a rasberry as I was not for sure!

oops!

Joe Cotter

Nope, didn't see that on this end, although the smileys do seem to be broken at the moment.

I was thinking about this today, and actually I believe cutting edge might have been an understatement for this market. The thing is, I'm not sure how many people using DS also are familiar with video editing software to the point of understanding and using camera tracking so the market at this point might not be enough to justify the development costs. One thing I've seen is consistent over years of watching the computer software market is that things keep getting simpler. Eventually, this will be a big thing I'm sure with people in this market. I'm just not so sure how many are currently or will be in the immediate future, up to speed on the techniques required for this (thus the lack of involvement in the thread.) The current learning curve is not insignificant at this point, but it will almost guaranteed be much shorter in a couple to a few years. Also, using current techniques, camera tracking and compositing is a bit of an investment in time over top of the time to get the video footage and the 3D rendered stills.

ReDave

Yes, I'm pretty sure there must be some interest, but only a handful of people follow this subforum regularly, and not everyone plans to do a movie. And as has been said, not everyone is necessarily aware of what you are talking about. Glad to see the Hannover university page finally got an update.

NoName99

Hey everyone. I would seriously be one of the first people to purchase a camera tracking/matchmoving solution for DAZ to After Effects.

I've been animating in DAZ and compositing in After Effects for the past few months, and I can honestly say it is incredibly tedious, although with some patience and persistence, it's possible to get decent results.

I've been posting the videos on my YouTube if you want to check them out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-jnFAojz4w&sns=em

I hope this product come out soon!!

Orion_Uk

@Gedd

Eventually, this will be a big thing I’m sure with people in this market. I’m just not so sure how many are currently or will be in the immediate future

It is looking more and more to be the case and while my paticence stumbles on your words, you are making some very valid points...Sadly as I wish for tomorrow today..lol

@ReDave

Yes, I’m pretty sure there must be some interest, but only a handful of people follow this subforum regularly

Any ideas on how to make this pole more public to gather more interest/backiing as the feedback I am getting from people here (while much aprieciated) is quite frustrating as I truely (maybe naievly) believed that there would be a LOT more interest, maybe I should change my way of thinking on this!

@dinopt

Hey everyone. I would seriously be one of the first people to purchase a camera tracking/matchmoving solution for DAZ to After Effects.

aaahhhh, faith restored, heres hoping for more (much more) posts like this..LOL

I’ve been posting the videos on my YouTube if you want to check them out

I checked out your channel (and subbed).. Love your videos, great work keep it up :D

slider2015_3a8a18d330

YES !

I use Mocha, Syntheyes, and PFTrack, to do a lot of my tracking, and having something integrated within the animation system would help both my workflow as well as increase productivity time.

Orion_Uk

slider20151 said:

YES !

I use Mocha, Syntheyes, and PFTrack, to do a lot of my tracking, and having something integrated within the animation system would help both my workflow as well as increase productivity time.

Wheres the `like` button?..

.Oh, that's right... I am not on FB lol, Thanks for the reply Slider.

Orion_Uk

Quick update:

I spoke to the programmer a couple of nights ago and here is what he had to say on the topic:

Btw, i'm monitoring the camera tracking thread over at daz - sounds like a nice little project to me. nothing to expect in a few weeks time span only, but i think i will start something; and i anyway like to do more projects in this direction...

Lets not do a victory dance just yet BUT, Sounds promising eh! :)

Superdog

I would love it if there was some way to integrate DAZ with After Effects regarding camera tracking. I also own Hitfilm 2 which is a much cheaper solution for this task as it contains a cut down version of Mocha and integrates with Sony Vegas Pro 12. My vote would go towards integrating DAZ with Hitfilm 2 as it's cheaper than both After Effects and Syntheyes and probably more affordable for most DAZ users. Although I accept that After Effects probably has a larger user base but not sure if they use DAZ.

Milo

Superdog said:

I would love it if there was some way to integrate DAZ with After Effects regarding camera tracking. I also own Hitfilm 2 which is a much cheaper solution for this task as it contains a cut down version of Mocha and integrates with Sony Vegas Pro 12. My vote would go towards integrating DAZ with Hitfilm 2 as it's cheaper than both After Effects and Syntheyes and probably more affordable for most DAZ users. Although I accept that After Effects probably has a larger user base but not sure if they use DAZ.

I still have to investigate the .ma format as I have solutions for going into Carrara using the syntheyes format, I have pfhoe (with a program to convert the .ma format to .syntheyes ( though I didn't get the upgrade (no funds) when they migrated to a new system and dead ended the one I have. )

Hitfilm 2 comes with Mocha-HitFilm for itself, and HitFilm 2 supports the .ma format for importing camera. For those interested the kickstarter to get a great deal on Hitfilm 2 Ultimate is still going on. (They are starting a Mac version of Hitfilm, allows you to get it for almost half price). Here is a link on the Daz Forums with information, it now includes pulling 3d objects in.

The project is fully funded and now its just stretch goal for some bonuses.

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/23180/

angusshmangus

hey all. I was referred to this thread from another thread regarding daz studios ability to handle camera tracking data. this is a rather long thread and I didn't read all of it.

My question now is, does daz studio 4.6 support camera tracking data? can the daz camera make sense of it? I was able to import a collada file of tracking information no problem and a new camera was even created by daz automatically so it looks promising. I just cannot at present get the daz camera to listen to the tracking data/point cloud.

any ideas?

Superdog

It would be really great if there was more integration between Carrara, Hitfilm and Sony Vegas Pro. I think that would be my ideal set up. I would definitely buy a product that let me share camera tracking between Carrara and these programs. While I think DAZ Studio integration would be great, Carrara is more versatile and is going to be much more integrated with DAZ Studio content in its forthcoming updates anyway. I think Carrara/Hitfilm/Vegas Pro integration would suit many of us who just can't afford the cost of Adobe/Autodesk products.

Inner-Fire Studios

I would be very interested in a camera tracking solution for DS

Orion_Uk

Hi everyone, its been a long day so I am gonna hit the sack..

I just wanted to poke my head through the door and say thank you all for your replys, I will leave a proper post tomorrow after I have had some sleep and had a chance to read through all the posts I have missed.

Night all & thanks again.

Timoteo

Hi:

I would be extremely interested in this (and even a Poser Python script) in something that could import After Effects 3D camera data. Or something else that I could get out of AE (such as Max .ms files, etc.)

Just curious if anything is happening with this yet?

Thanks,
Tim

Orion_Uk

Hi Tim & thanks for your interest ;)

Things have not really been moving with regards to this topic :(

The possible dev is snowed under working on another project, I feel bad to keep bugging him so have left the ball in his court as it were.

Sorry I cant give you much more info at the moment!

Regards, Orion_Uk.

Timoteo

Tis' a shame, of course, but definitely understandable. Ok, well I appreciate the info. Take care.

WayOfTheSword

Orion_Uk said:

Hi Tim & thanks for your interest ;)

Things have not really been moving with regards to this topic :(

The possible dev is snowed under working on another project, I feel bad to keep bugging him so have left the ball in his court as it were.

Sorry I cant give you much more info at the moment!

Regards, Orion_Uk.

There are scripts out there that export Blender cameras to Daz. I've been working on getting a good tracking workflow using one of those scripts. Ideally, I'd like to be able to get a good camera solve into Daz, render in Reality/Luxrender, and then composite in my editor of choice.

So far, in Blender, I've got a good camera solve. I've got the camera exported to Daz. I've figured out the focal length conversion. So I'm getting pretty close to a working solution. I'm just having trouble getting the Blender tracking point cloud into Daz so I can line up the models properly. Hoping to start shooting a short film this summer.

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/es_pictures/1533569/119954/119954_original.jpg

And here's some of the non-tracked animation/compositing I've done. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7giucD_VFNM