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Well going back to two has worked out the exact opposite way, for some customers. Hence the problem I'm experiencing. With Genesis 1, you could easil take Hitomi and still make a male character, that looked very similar in style. Fast forward to 2018. Sakura 8 looks fantastic, but she's useless to me without a guy pal, and the PAs are going "well there's no money in it", so those of us who want a comperable male character are at their mercy.
I was always told the reason for the gender split was to make it easier for pas to make clothing.... presumably for women. I’ve never heard customers demanding a gender split to any significant degree.
Has it been 15 Days already??
Another "why less male content" thread.....so soon
I understand there is a certain visceral satifaction
in being able to post ones gripes.
But certainly no one actually thinks that yet another
rehash of this subject is going to change the paradigm.
Users can Accept what clothing is available or learn to model
their own...or Dont buy anything at all
As far as specific male counter parts of specific female "characters",
I dont understand why this is so important thus have no opinion
on that issue.
Genesis 2 Female and Male were separated because making natural looking clothes for the unisex Genesis was hard (as a look at the breasts on a lot of Genesis clothing will show).
AutoFit will convert clothing, the Transfer Utility can convert moprhs. Every Genesis has had the ability to AutoFit/Transfer between the male and female figures.
Okay. Gonna go with an extreme example to drive the point home. Lets say you are a comic artist. You go to make a scene with male and female characters. For your female you have Sakura 8, for your male Poser 4's Dork. Needless to say, they don't look right together, because they just don't match. The scene just doesn't work. Now, if you have say Aiko and Hiro 6, it looks right, because the characters look like they belong in the same style. This is very important for people who lack the skill to model their own.
There's no "solution" because there will always be unhappy customers. There will never be parity because of the economics involved.
But we can hope for value for the money we spend. And of late I am not seeing that. i have perhaps made some snap judgements based on previous experiences, and made judgements more on my own perceived usefulness of the articles on offer, but when compared to the things I will buy (that are very often in the same price range), I don't see the value. That, to me, is where the argument lies: percieved usefulness (and percieved sophistication of modeling/textures) and attractivness vs cost.
I agree with the first part, as far as the unhappy customers goes, but not the second. I do not agree with the second part simply because I believe the customer is as much a part of the solution as the PAs are.
And what, do we as customers, do in this ongoing situation? There certainly is more male content released regularly (though if its not a character release, its a trickle), but it does not seem to be what those of us who want male content want to buy. How do we address this other than speaking with our wallets, which amounts to silence and a downward spiral?
This makes Zero sense.
Anyone using Sakura 8 for G8,
in a comic ,would likely be using at least DS 4.9
thus would not even be considering a 25 year old figure like Poser4 "Dork" .
I think the example, while a bit extreme, makes the point that using Dork would be as visually jarring as using some other more recent character instead of one that is visually compatible stylistically.
So, speaking anecdotally because I have not seen other data that DAZ can see, or learn through experience as the PAs have...
I feel like I buy a good amount of male things when available--hair, characters, poses, weapons, etc. But, I hold back in terms of clothing, especially anything with weird-looking pants. If we can get some good dforce pants, or just decent-looking, non-body-hugging pants, I personally would be buying more male clothing. So many times I put male clothing in my cart, only to dump it after a closer look on the pants.
perhap start a thread about making a opposite counterpart out of morphs There are several forum members who seem failrly accomplished at making morphs work and might provide some tips.
The thing is, even if you think all male content stinks now, all the commentary being made now has been made since Genesis 2 (and probably longer).
If there was a point where you thought the content was great, it was made less frequently and PAs observed that it mostly sold worse.
If you think some male content is good and the rest is drek, if that content sold fantastically, PAs would notice.
So, basically, the overall quality you perceive doesn’t seem to be making a difference.
I liked having one figure with Genesis, but there are definite upsides to splitting it.
Thankfully there are loads of cross gender morphs and such, so it’s not so hard to synergize.
It makes a difference in what I will spend my money on and I can only comment on my perceptions because they are the only ones I am privy to. That being said, I've been at this a while and trust my perceptions. Past experience has also taught me what vendors are a safe bet and which ones are not. Unfortunately, the good bets are generally not on offer in a male bundle. And that little fact is a bit of a coup de grace in many cases.
Well I liked Genesis male / female better as one base figure theorectically too but for the characters I do have of Genesis, the bending and distortions around the posed bones bends and morphed areas can be quite awful looking. I don't know how with less polygons Genesis 8 looks so much better but it does maybe it is that weightmapping is better than it used to be.
As far as these complaint threads there have been some really surprisingly cardboard tube looking ad copy for some new Genesis 8 clothing but I really can't say if it's worse or not as I haven't bought it.
I have had consistant problems in certain areas of fit for male and female clothing for too much clothing for Genesis 3 onward which was when I 1st started using 'DAZ' expensively. In my mind, these clothing fitting problems have got to go, to ever progress to much more than a skin-of-the-teeth income for most DAZ PAs. Keep calling DAZ 3D model products a bargain all you want but a hobbyist customer for fun or hobbyists speculating on their own art commisions, games, animations, graphic novels, and what not with their spare money and spare time are not the same target market as AAA game studios with a staff of 3D artists creating bespoke designs, models, and art so to and make those markets some sort of competitive equivalents is not going to fly. A hobbyist has to produce a much better story than a big AAA game company has too to even get noticed to make a dent in sales.
Anyway, when I think of male or female clothing there isn't really a lot lacking, especially when you take autofit into consideration. In Genesis 3 there was even 2 police / security uniform sets and firefighter uniforms and construction uniforms which although made for the males, autofit on the females and in real life also worn by females. And those cases were big improvements over the earlier offerings of those style work uniforms too. There is also the plain jane every day clothing, male & female.
I'm afraid beside a male fairy & male anime to match the Sakura / Karyssa I don't have much to complain about besides auto-fit failing too much and a couple of DAZ Studio bugs I've already submitted.
I'd like to see dForce fit and drape make autofit a thing of the past but I guess I'll have to be patient on that.
Stylisticly there have been "anime" style males in recent years
that are certainly more recent than poser 4 era males.
Perhaps an anime comic illustrator should consider GENX 2 or other methods
for Creating males to match certain Female Genre's
There are options in DS ...Do the Bloody work to achieve your creative objectives
Conclusion: DAZ should be more aware and make an effort to at least always release on store the same toon/Sakura/fairy unique styles on both male/female, and help PAs to build better male trousers. I think these things are the minimun improvement on parity without costing that much.
Well the claim is usually made in these threads that they would make such characters but customers aren't buying. Anyway, it's like manufacturing a washer but not a dryer.
As far as females outselling males by a wide margin I believe that easily but I don't believe all those slight variations of female unpracticable fashion clothing and female unpracticle fashion armour's sales could be that good. I look for good original practical female clothing and it's not much more on offer than good original practical male clothing.
That's not an excuse, DAZ is able to motivate PAs to produce costly things for PC and even to give away as free gift on March Madness and Christmas, I dont see why DAZ can't do the same and motivate PAs with $$ to make two bundles or three per year of toon/fairy/sakura males and Mobius females. That's the only way.
Anybody that's worked the same job a long time often gets bored with the job but their desire for quality and respect for self, coworkers, employer, and customers motivates them to create quality despite their boredom and maybe low-pay. Yes, some of you that have chosen the world of exactly what type of job you want and even the type of products you make at your job to make a living might be surprised to find that people like myself have worked as busboys and many other 'menial low-paying' jobs that were the only jobs available and only way to obtain money too but we still make sure to do a good job anyway out of self-respect, respect for coworks, respect for the business, and respect for the customers. It's not 'selling out' to make a living at a legal job that is the only available while still be good at the job and respectful and helpful to coworkers and customers.
I'm primarily interested in male characters, and I haven't felt hindered by content so far (I started with Daz Studio in summer of 2017). But then I'm not interested in anime/manga style characters. I have a very slight interest in catguys (meowy yaoi?) but I couldn't guarantee anyone a sale in that area.
BTW, I appreciate the comments about economics and motivations.
Respectfully, I don't think "do it yourself" is an appropriate or relevant response to suggestions in a product suggestions forum.
In addition, most/many people have done work in attempting to achieve their creative objectives. But to act like everyone has the capability or time--I mean, isn't a main selling point of DAZ and its products the fact that it makes people's lives easier in achieving their creative objectives?
Not having male counterparts for stylistic characters is just weird to me. Even if it doesn't sell well, having it available adds value to the female character (i.e., can be used by people who want to actually make anime-styled stories that include both female and male characters), and can attract additional customers.
I just tried to get a friend of mine to consider selling his creations to DAZ last night (he's selling to Unity and Turbosquid). He visited the store and he initially thought DAZ was primarily used for making skimpily-dressed girls and women and wondered if his creatures would even have a place here. He's probably not the only person who gets that impression and leaves (although I'm trying to convince him otherwise). So, while this is just anecdotal, I do think more parity can attract a broader base and increase sales over time.
"Respectfully, I don't think "do it yourself" is an appropriate or relevant response to suggestions in a product suggestions forum."
Amen.
A poor analogy...Most people buying a modern utility like a washer
will naturally expect to be able to Dry the clothing with similar convenience
or the utilitarian value of the automatic washer is somewhat diminished.
In my opinion Female Characters in the DAZ content market(of any style)
obviously have their own intrinsic,stand alone value in the complete
absence of a similarly styled male counter part.
( hence the higher sales and content support)
I dont recall seeing any posts complaining that "Bethany 7"
Did not have male counter part with a BMI that "exceed the Ideal".
"Big girls" need mates too right ??
Of course female characters have their own intrinsic, stand-alone value. I just think the value goes up if there is a male counterpart.
I can't speak to this, as I was not active in the forums at that time, but I would absolutely want a male counterpart to Bethany.