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I'm certainly pretty frustrated by it, though I wasn't around at the time. "Big dude" is even more underrepresented than "big girl." Who is there, George and that sumo character? (And then on the other side of that, "old lady" is somehow more underrepresented than "old man.")
On the flip side, it might be worth counting blessings.
Despite the fact that female content sells way better... PAs/Daz still put out a lot of male stuff. It might not be parity, but it could be WAY worse.
And, for those of us who like weirder stuff, there are aliens, furries of a bunch of varieties, wings galore, faerie, cyborgs and robots, all sorts of wild stuff.
You're kidding right? I never considered Bethany 7 fat but then I'm not into the fashion model world. I consider George fat, but he's not a DO.
Having a match female & male stylistically - it's a story telling necessity. You can't do a scene that's that believable in modern or historic Beijing with Lee 8 and Bethany 8 as two average residents of Beijing and it not feel somewhat or totally contrived. Beijing is not the Starship Enterprise when someone's wanting to tell a traditional story about Beijing and it's people. You can do a believable average scene with Lee 8 and Bethany 8 in modern Los Angeles though or on the Enterprise. You can't do a believable scene with Lee 8 and Sakura 8 anywhere for that matter.
The relevant thing is Bethany is a good match stylistically for Michael, Elijah, Lee, Leo, Giovanni, Darius, Lucas, Victoria, Olympia, Monique, Mei Lin but is not a good match for Toon Generations 2, Morpheus, Girl 7, Guy 7, Jax, Ruby, or Amaya.
You say the washer and dryer analogy isn't relevant but setting aside convenience, how many people go out and buy a stainless steel Maytag washer and then buy a white GE dryer? Most people even pay more to have a matching set stylistically, model wise, and brand wise.
Anyway, I am glad for the freebie that 3D Outlaw made so I don't have to worry about that. I think it's a missed opportunity for DAZ though although I don't know their sales increases (and clearly all their more recent products are selling more copies of every genre).
Yep, I was commenting that M4 got maybe 4 outfits last year and less than 4 characters, and the non-daz figure had 1 character and maybe 2 outfits. Two. In the whole year. Then some just got nothing but a module to convert skins from M4.
It really disheartens me, to be honest, at how the trend continues with G8M. "Make Genesis 8 Move, Talk & Morph!" made me roll my eyes so hard when I first saw it. When I first saw it, not clicked on it, I was very confident it should've been "Make Genesis 8 Female Move, Talk & Morph!" Clicked on it to find that 95% of the banner applied to G8F, as I suspected. This whole week has been dedicated to G8F, with G8M getting the littlest attention yet.
Geta for men was probably the most high quality product I've seen for G8M as of lately, and it was free! Bend the toes, and the geta bend uniquely with his foot. There was realism and detail in a free product! Most of G8M's clothing look like rehashed versions of G3M's and G2M's clothing... There's little to no inspiration or creativity in what goes out for G8M. I've been eagerly awaiting to spend money on Gianni 8 and Lee 8, as they were my favorite G3M figures alongside Michael 7. I feel like with every week, every day, I'm holding my breath that G8M will get at least *one* day for himself per week. I'm fooling myself every day with these hopes. :[
I've mentioned this before, and it got shut down with "artists don't pay particular attention to last minute details," but Andre was by far the best figure that's been pushed out for G8M outside of Michael 8 and Owen 8. There was great work put into him, and he was a purchase I was very satisfied with. Most male figures lack details to their hands and feet, particularly their palms and soles, which is a deal breaker for me. It's so frustrating and offputting when their palms and soles look plastic/porcelain. They should look life-like and detail, as it's a Genesis 8 figure... There should be no excuse for "no attention for last minute details." If PA want their money's worth, they should put in the work for it too.
I do hope the vendors, PAs, Daz3D, etc. look through this topic and take suggestions and thoughts into mind. I understand G8F sells the most, she has a large pool of fans, but you're alienating your G8M fans more and more with each day. This is frustrating, and has been going on for way too long. AllowG8M at least one day per week to have the spotlight. It's unfair that G8F gets seven days a week all to herself, with G8M getting one day every three or so weeks.
There is https://www.daz3d.com/classic-tuxedo-for-genesis-3-male-s for G3M, which I can recommend as an excellent product. THIS is the kind of quality in male clothes I'll spend money on, not male skimp-wear. For male underwear, I use https://www.daz3d.com/michael-7-intimates-for-genesis-3-male-s and OOT also has https://www.daz3d.com/intimates-for-genesis-8-male-s for G8M, though I haven't bought much G8 stuff yet.
I like and use classic tux a lot but the shoulders are a bit wonky and the collar area was a bit problematic. I like the set but I see flaws
Flaws, yes, though I haven't found anything really problematic. And not around the collar or shoulders (yet). This was one of the characters I used in an image I posted at Rendo, and the whole suit went on with no need to adjust anything.
Its the shoulder shape. They slump and are cut in on the tuxedo. If you google images of the tuxedo and look at the way this one looks you'll see the odd shoulder/arm thing Could be the way it fits G3M, but I think it is partly the seams of the shoulders plus the lack of a really clean line on the shoulder area which should be flatter, The neck collar is also flattened when collar should be slightly more shaped.
Those are small details but things that really pop out at me. But they are visible in the promo art. It is still a good piece, I use it frequently, but I'd like a tux with a better collar and more flattering fit to the coat.
I can't see your picture, sorry to say.
Thanks, Serene Night, I looked more closely (with my bad eyes), and saw what you mean. When you say you can't see my picture, do you mean I've done something wrong with the post, or is your device (PC, phone, etc) not able to display images?
(Edit to fix missing image, 'cos the forum eated it!)
It looks blank to me a big white square. I usually can see images but for some reason not this one. Pm me your pic from rendo so I can check it out. I love guys in tuxes
The way that lapel seems to float drives me bonkers, don't now how to change that though, and men's suits as have a 'square cut' in the way the fit and lay, they don't cling and collapse nearly so easily as cotton. A man in a good suit will always look more fit and athletic than a he appears to be in jeans and a t-shirt.
This is an issue with conformers, it's in female clothing too where the shape shows it up
OK, thanks.
For those saying male content would sell just as well if it was the same quality, I have some input. Those of you who know me or follow my deviantart know I'm big on statistical analysis and crunching the numbers.
Here's a comparison on some products of mine. These are utility sets, so the male content isn't likely to be inferior because things like style don't matter as much; and morph sets, because in most of those the male content and the female content are literally the same ported from one to the other. Wondrous Creatures and Awesome Creatures are exactly the same morphs as one another. The Faces Of etc. sets are also literally transposed, they just look more femme or masculine because the base faces of the figures are different. And, contrary to what you might think, in the Faces Of sets I usually did the males first because I like looking at men. The final dial values might be slightly less strong on the females.
I ran the numbers back from August 2012 to the present. I won't show you how much money I made, and you can't guess it from this because the prices of things go up and down with sales so much, but I am showing you how many copies were sold as a reasonable barometer.
Beautiful Skin has a particularly striking disparity. Fuseling and I definitely did not do worse on the male set for this one because if there's anything we both sincerely love, it's the human male body. Those promos were a labor of love. ;D
The biggest things the "exceptions" have in common is that all of them were commercial failures during their intro periods. In general this is because people bought way less of the female version, not because they bought more of the males. This is my livelihood, this job. Having something only have sold just over 100 copies months after it was released means it failed abysmally. To make me happy it needs to clear 100 on day 1.
Of course, none of this matters if the real argument is about clothes. That's something none of us can fix, because clothes are the riskiest product category - they take a long time, and failure is a greater blow as a result.
And continuing on from my previous post, here are my top 15 products of all time in order of earnings (numbers/money not listed, but these are the top). Note that the vast majority are androgynous products, suggesting that strategy generally pays off. Again, that's obviously not an option for the average clothing maker. The Business Suit was for Genesis - meaning that while people may have bought it as a male product, it was equally possible to use it on females (though at the time I was newer in my job and very stressed by the usual forum complaints that I did not have the capacity to make them a mirrored pair of trousers to represent the mirrored tailoring of female garments). The fact that I can't do andro clothes any more is part of the reason I just don't do many clothes now; I can't make the female version subsidize the male in the same way.
So it looks like DAZ 3D has more Far Eastern customers than American & European. It also looks like the DAZ customer base is growing.
LOL, and thanks for the jockey set & equistrian obstacle course. Talk about an unexpected and pleasant surprise!
??? - Those are sales by product name, not by region. Just trying to clarify.
Personally I loved the blue ones.
No understanding of others taste I guess.
Yes, I know that. Correlation isn't completely useless although that correlation might not be valid. I guess I should qualified with "might have".
It's still useful information for PAs although I'd guess DAZ 3D product cycle designers crunch sales of genres and such information as much as their product metatags and sales database allows.
I worked from reference images and that's how the cut was on the suit. However all is not lost if you're prepared to do a bit more than fit and render. :) The push modifier tool with a painted weightmap can help to add a bit of detail to the flat collar. Go to create - New Push Modifier Weight Node. Click on the weight node and go to tool settings with the weightmap tool (shift + Alt + W) selected. Add a new map and it will initially be 100% red. Select all facets and fill with 0%. Now you can use the weightmap tool to paint the parts you want to have more shape.
Mada: I like this set, and use it frequently. I don't think its bad at all in fact I said it is good. I just don't care for the way the arms join the shoulders or the collars.
Thanks for your advise on how to make the collar less flat. I certainly will try that.
I will try that weight-paint / push modifier / dForce on the Genesis 2 gi I am trying to make poses for. It will be disappointing if I make a bunch of poses but then can't use dForce to get nice draping for the gi.
I think it's mostly a matter of customers being ready for auto-fit and dForce and wala, fit & draped clothing rather than a new quality problem.
Hopefully that helps to get you a bit closer to the shape you want - let me know if something wasn't clearly explained :)
Oh and I should mention Mada, that your Cool Style outfit, the attitude outfit, Casual winter, are really great as well and I use those often, but its actually your tuxedo I converted first to Genesis 8... Because I like it. Never could figure out why the buttons flew everywhere, but, I am not an expert at the clothing conversion process.
Your tuxedo is the best wedding ensemble for men we have in the store, so I thank you for making it.
The buttons use rigid follow nodes so they don't distort with morphs or poses - and is really handy for dforce because it stays with the polygon its parented to. It sounds like the conversion process loses the rigid follow nodes - I'll have to see if I can figure out how to keep them.
Ah, that is the same problem I had. I just hid the buttons instead. I will try that convert G3 to G8 clothing that SickleYield wrote instead next time I use the tuxedo.
Mada... you are pretty high up on my list of male clothing makers I trust. Please don't be discouraged. We could have a talk about those shoes...but please continue.
Thank you :)
DAZ can only put into the store for each gender what the PAs and any DAZ employees working on characters and clothing make. If fewer male characters and items are being made, that's what's going to be offered for sale. I really don't want to get into the debate about quality, as that is, to some degree, subjective to the individual.