More Non-photorealisitic Renders (NPR II)
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Yeah I haven't leaned the shadow catching thing yet either. I have pwCatch or whatever it's called, but I haven't tried to use it yet.
I`m not sure if pwCatch work in recent version of DS . Already tried another free catch shader but it seems didnt work either
I love everything about this, giant robots are my favorite. I have to check out that comic as I have never read or heard of it.
I'm also enjoying the shading of your artistic rendering style. The gradients for the skin and clothing textures in your last image stands out.
I love the one labeled "BigFuturbe"! The shading and colors are very nice! :D
These have a really good look to them, I like the soft toon style you have here. You mention the outline, and the one thing I did think is that the outlines come off strongly compared to the softer look of the rest. It may just be thickness, or even adjusting the color to be closer to the main surface colors might help soften it, if you think that would be closer to what you want to get.
I just tested, and pwCatch is working (both for shadows and reflection) in Studio 4.10.
thanks , I`m big fan of your iray toon render,. Would love to try iray route until I can get new machine .
Great to know and thanks for the outline tips , will try some adjustment , and I wonder if everyone here thinking about doing outline in post ?
I saw several outline trick in these thread and youtube , but it after bought Affinity designer last year , it seem doing outline easier and its possible get better result than let "machine" did for us LOL . Still not sure how to give proper outline ink though especially since I didnt had traditional art experiences at all
This is my Universal/go pwToon shader setting to get base smooth render .
Mostly I`ve used in Cloth or hair which already have good textures , but it also can work in skin with changing several parameters like Rim exterior color and makes diffuse shading (upper/lower bound) ratio to 80 - 0 or maybe 30 - 0 if you still need cel shading fx .
just remember rim bounding exterior/interior ratio setting really depend on main diffuse shading ratio . So if you wanna smoothness fx make sure your difuse shading (upper/lower bound ) ratio not set in 50-50 , 30 - 30 and so on
You can also play with specular/glossines/sharpeness if you want boost leather or some metal element
For Lighting I use one Aoa Distand light for shadow direction , and AoA ambient light for smooth ambience FX ( you can turn AO or not depend on how you want Smooth FX you need ) . Both use 128 128 128 as color , and set in low intensity
( reference images would help you to judge how bright your scene needed )
I believe you can use standard distant light with raytracing and Uber Env lighting to subsitute Aoa light sets
Before I got LineRender9000, I was doing linework seperatly in Clip Paint Studio. Now, LineRender does a lot of the linework for me and I clean up any issues in Clip Paint Studio. LineRender will create seperate renders for line work that you can composite with your render (layers) in Photoshop. Saves me a lot of time.
Thanks. I'll give this a try when I use PwToon again.
I have a mega comic store near me, so I'm able to get the individual issues. It's a limited series; 12 issues if I remember correctly. I'm up to issue 9. If you don't have a mega comic shop near, you the series is available at Comixology.
This another quick render and using setting I posting above as start and tweak until I feel ok . and postworked in PS for BG and correction Light etc
Sorry about geometry mesh up , I was try to fit V3 outfit to my fave Genesis 1
The real-time (in Poser Pro 11 teminology, it's called "live") Comic Book Preview is VERY fun to use, and very powerful because you get to see how the shadows are falling on your artwork as you move the lights. Plus, you get to set different line widths based on material group names. So I can have a thinner line on the edge of the teeth and eyes than on the hands and chest. Or thicker still on clothing and armor. This gives me a lot more control than I would get with the geoshell look.
I really haven't been doing much work with my comic lately, but that's about to change. I think I've finished with the space-themed book cover, so I can get back to my comic. But I'm happy to post something new that I don't think you guys have see, yet. I'll do it in another post.
BTW: Thanks for the detailed list of your process. It gave me some insights into how you are generating your work. If you're interested in seeing more of how I do mine, check out the "Poser Noir" link in my signature line.
Since it's been a while since I've posted anything new, here's something I don't think you guys have seen, yet. Here's a WIP page from my comic DAYS GONE, and it includes my thumbnail sketches at the bottom. Before I work on a comic, I completely sketch it out on typing paper to get the general pacing down. This stage is VERY rough and loose. Then I sketch it a second time, this time on a page with the proper comic book dimensions pre-printed on the paper. This forces me to really think about panel shape and story flow. Again, the artwork is still super rough and I have lots of little notes scattered on the page to remind me of what things are, and things like motion or effects (or in one case, that a big blob of shadows is the cavern wall).
I typically do not paste the thumbnails into Manga Studio (aka Clip Studio Paint) because I have a binder with all the sketches (and I have scanned them into a PDF that I can easily open). But, in this case I was participating in an online Webinar about visual storytelling and I wanted the other participants to see how I built from the thumbnails into the final panels, so I merged them.
In this scene, the hero is having a crisis at the top and is going into a monologue. This takes place across the top of the pages.
At the bottom, Nirona the Fairy is having fun going on a "shopping spree" throughout the treasure trove. She is flitting about picking up pieces of treasure, then quickly discarding it as something else catches her eye.
================
The top panels are still roughs. I need to clean up some things. For example, in panel 2, his hair should be hanging down more from his face to show that there is gravity in the scene ;-) Also, in panel 2 I need to finish postwork on the dragon. On a previous page I show that the dragon is missing a claw, so I need to add that detail here. Also need to add a cut or two to the hero. And in panel four I probably need to draw in his nipple so that you can better figure out the odd twist I have in his waist. As it is, I don't think the navel and the uppper body look like they are lining up properly (they are, but I just have that odd twist in his abdomen so, without the nipple to serve as a reference, it looks odd). Oh, and the background of the top panels needs a little work: This is about what it's going to look like, but I want to increase the resolution of the sketchy lines so they appear smoother.
UPDATE: Maybe I'll just delete the navel in panel 4? I think that would solve everything.
Anyway, I look forward to your feedback. Keep in mind, it's still WIP.
This one is really cool. You definitely capture the old-school anime from the 80s-90s look. Also, there is a confidence to your outlines that is stronger and more mature than it was just 6 months ago. You're relly going somewhere great with this.
My one critique (oh, c'mon, you knew it was coming!) would be that there is a disconnect betwixt the colors on the figure and the mech. The figure colors are super clean and crisp with very light shadows and strong, tight highlights on the armor. But the background has very strong, very deep shadows with difused highlights. I know they sometimes did this effect in anime, but since this isn't moving it seems more like a Robotech comic than cartoon, so that's probably why it isn't working for me.
BTW: I really like his pose. The arch of the back seems particularly realistic, and the folded arms and tilt of his chin really convey confidence. I like it.
Composition wise, the color of his hair is very similar to a piece of the mech right behind his head. When I first looked at him, for one second I thought he had some sort of "fin hairdo" or mohawk. Just for a second, mind you, but it was there for a second. Just recoloring that little wedge would fix that problem completely.
Great work! Now... when are you going to start on that graphic novel? You're ready!
I like it. Background is exciting and her pose is cool. I think you need to take another shot at matching up the highlights between her leathers and her armor. Your highlights on the amor are super sharp, but on the leathers they are soft-edged. On another note, I think your approach to hair is working. It just seems more consisten these days. Good work!
But the highlights are more accurate that way, right? The highlights for leather would not be the same as highlights on metal. Metal is a lot more reflective than leather so it makes sense that the highlights would be brighter and sharper on the metal than the highlights on the softer and rougher leather.
You are correct. Different surfaces do react differently to light and shadow. However, these two surfaces do not appear to be reflecting light differently (which is fine), they appear to be in two different styles. The metal is in a sharp style (like you might see in a comic book) and the leather is so MUCH softer that I don't think they look like they were drawn by the same person. I would expect tight reflections on the metal, but with narrow, soft edges. In other words, the two styles are too far apart.
Oh, you mean the shading looks different? You just mentioned highlights. If you meant that the shading between the leather and the cybernetic arms look different, then yes I agree. I thought you were talking about just the highlights.
I think this looks really good, it has a nice, consistent line look across the panels, and a good tone balance. The tonal shift of the background going through the panels looks good to me, and keeps it interesting without drawing too much attention to itself.
On the fourth panel, I think it depends on whether the twist is important. With the way the shading is, if you remove the navel I think in my mind I would assume the torso is twisted more to his right side (our left). Adding the nipple back in would help show the twist, though it might be tricky to place just right.
I was trying out the Side Layered Messy Hair here, and saw it in wireframe mode and thought it might work really well for toon hair. Wanted to try out some of my pwToon presets on it, and I like the texture you can get out of it. Not happy with the eyebrows, will need to figure out how I want to handle those in the future.
In reference to paragraph 2, the mech pilot is 100% Visual Style Shaders with no additional textures. The mecha is PwToon, cel-shading, with the textures maintained. I tried using VSS on the mecha, with and without the texrures and I wasn't happy with it. I'm still learning PwToon and I'm going to try juvesatriani_S settings, so we'll see how the next one comes out.
Alita is all Visual Style Shaders except for the eyes. I'll have to re-check my settings, but the shading values should be the same for the arms and the bodysuit, but occasionally I screw that up. The glossy settings for the arms are set for metal and the glossy settings for the bodysuit are for leather, All of my settings come from experimentation which is still ongoing.
I like the look. I mix and match VSS with PwToon. I'm going to try your PwToon settings and see if they work for me.
Thank you for the feedback. No, there is nothing at all important about the twist in his torso. It just happened that way while I was working on the scene, what with him turning from one side to the other during his monologue. In my original thumbnails, he was actually very static with just his shoulders and head showing, but as I got into it, I decided it was too static. The scene just screamed out for more movement and, looking at it now, I think the body language does a better job of conveying his inner turmoil.
Matching the nipple placement doesn’t worry me, as I can just re-render that panel so that it shows and then I can copy it onto the other images (or just tweak the shadows a smidge and use the new renders). I save a separate file for each and every panel so I can go back to it. Fortunately, I have a lot of disc space. But on that point, I might do something odd and add the nipple and move or remove the navel. The way the art looks, I think the anatomy would look clearer that way.
Of course, this is just one panel without much going on. If I just delete the navel and move on, it would be faster. [Note, yes, I am amused that I’m spending this much time talking about where a guys’ nipple and navel should be – my wife is probably right that I get too caught up in the details.]
I’m very happy that you commented on the consistency between panels. That is one of the main things I’m trying to learn from making this comic: the techniques needed to keep my art looking the same from panel-to-panel.
This brings to mind something I read decades ago. I can’t remember if it’s from How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way or from an interview in Comics Journal or the old Comics Buyer’s Guide (yeah, I read it that long ago, but it stuck with me). The comment was from an editor (I think) who was talking about meeting young artists who show him only pin-ups. This guy said something to the effect of, “That’s a great picture, kid. But can you draw this face the same way, from different angles and with different shadows, for another 100 panels across 22 pages?”
I think that’s one of the great things about using 3D. It kind of “solves” that problem for us. By using a base figure I have the basic shape an figure to work with. The rest is just developing a workflow that builds off of it each an every time.
The most important things I have learned so far:
Thanks again for the comments. Now that I’ve handed in my space book cover, I am looking forward to getting back to my comic.
We're all still learning and trying to figure out what works and doesn't I still think the final image is very strong. Maybe if you just lightened the background figure in Photoshop? That might bring it more in line with the tones you have in that super cool figure. I really look forward to seeing what you do next.
Don’t get me started ranting about eyebrows! Ugh, they drive me crazy. In my work on those pages, I really don’t like the eyebrow treatment, but I’m just accepting it and moving forward (although I might go back and make them a bit smaller, now that I think of it).
I really like what I’m seeing here with the hair. I’ve got to remember to consider trying the hair set to a different display mode. That might solve some of the issues I’m having with women’s hair, in particular.
I really like the strong colors and look you achieved here. Background is a bit wonky to my eye (I think a little more light on it would bring out some of those cool architectural details I see in the next pic), but since this is all about the girl I’m digging it!
For this particular hair, since it is designed for dforce, it's built as tapered tubes instead of ribbons like most transmapped hair. This lets it work really well with these shaders, especially for outlines.
Took another look at the background, the set itself has a nice round opening in the far wall that the light on the figure was coming from. However, once everything was framed, you can't even see the outline so it didn't matter :) . I redid the background removing that wall entirely and adjusting it to catch some light. I think you are right that it looks more in line with the detail on the second image, and I think I've still got a good light/dark balance.
This is an awesome thread and I've really loved looking through and seeing how everyone approaches their work!
I started doing non-photorealistic postwork to develop a style for my fangame, then spread out to experiment with different techniques for different projects when I realized how much I enjoyed using raw renders as a starting point. Another benefit when I have lots of assets to create is that it's much easier to deal with minor clipping, imperfect fits, and other wonkiness that would stick out in a photoreal image, since I can fix a lot of that with manual paintovers.
Awesome BW setup and those line from poser ? Wow ..thats great !!
Love your render !!