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@Diomede - Looks like you're doing pretty well. Thanks for the helpful comments. Yeah, I know what you mean about the fire. I'm not really good at postwork. I've made some attempts, and maybe I'll get back to it here soon. I thought about repeating my earlier trick of burying the light source prop inside a larger prop with a different shader. What I have works for where the flames are thickest in the reference image, but yeah. I agree totally. BTW (by the way), I saw the pulp fiction cover you did over on the NPR thread. It was really impressive. Reminded me of some books from the seventies or maybe a Doc Savage cover or something. It inspires me to want to do something similar. Not sure if I can, but I'm seriously thinking about it now. Can't wait to see what you do with this. Oh, one thing, I really love the textures on the pants and shoes (what product if you don't mind?), but the shirt I'm not as crazy about. It's the light reflection that bugs me.
@Night678winG - I haven't said much because I really don't think I have much to offer. You'lve picked a challenging pose, but I think you're off to a good start.
@Wanderer - I think your idea of using a second prop flame behind the first could be a sufficient solution. Thanks for the suggestions, and for explainig BTW! You are right about the shirt. Maybe I can get improved results with a combination of lighting changes, some edits to the surface material shininess (whatever that is called in Studio), and maybe some drape from DForce - if it works on that item. The figure I am using is G8M Lucas character. The wardrobe is the Smooth Talker outfit, with the default chronicler design shaders applied (Iray). The hair is Classic side part hair. I modeled the Egyptian lyre in Carrara. I had used shaders in Carrara to handle the top of the strings, so that is why there are white rectangles where those shaders don't work the same in Studio. I will model a quick fix for where the strings wrap around the top. Thanks for the kind words about my Brash Lonergan cover. I love those old pulp scifi and adventure works.
@Diomede - Thanks for the info. Nice job on the model. I would never have guessed it wasn't a regular shop prop.
Ok, I make progress, but still have my problems.
Biggest are the position of her hip on his thighs. when I position her that deep,no other part of her body reached the points of the reference picture.
Even now, I must turn off all limits in both figure arms, to pose them like they are now.
Until now both arms intersection with each other, but when I try to correct that, the position of her hands can't reach the point they must.
I think it's because flesh is flexible. Maybe a weight modifier would help, but I have absolutely no idea how I should do something like that.
Even the light was a challenge for his own. I fought 3 days with 2 and 4 spotlights, but was unable to get enough bright in the scene to see more than schem.
At last I used two primitive planes with emmissive shader. the position of both may need a little adjustment, but I'm near and I'm very proud, that I got the hairs to look nearly as in the picture.
Ok, I make progress, but still have my problems.
Biggest are the position of her hip on his thighs. when I position her that deep,no other part of her body reached the points of the reference picture.
Even now, I must turn off all limits in both figure arms, to pose them like they are now.
Until now both arms intersection with each other, but when I try to correct that, the position of her hands can't reach the point they must.
I think it's because flesh is flexible. Maybe a weight modifier would help, but I have absolutely no idea how I should do something like that.
Even the light was a challenge for his own. I fought 3 days with 2 and 4 spotlights, but was unable to get enough bright in the scene to see more than schem.
At last I used two primitive planes with emmissive shader. the position of both may need a little adjustment, but I'm near and I'm very proud, that I got the hairs to look nearly as in the picture.
Apologies, @Sueya an @daybird - I mixed you up in my post. I've gone back and fixed it.
Daybird, that is a very challenging and impressive set of poses. You really nailed the hair. Your whole image is excellent. Can't help you directly with the weight modifier, but would love to know if you figure it out. (note - I have some related tutes but haven't viewed them yet). Another option after turning off the limits might be to create joint-related morphs. Josh darling's youtube channel has a couple of related videos. However, you would have to be willing to use Belnder or the Bridge to Hexagon or whatever to make the morph. SickleYield has also posted how to do these morphs. Here are Josh's videos.
(Edit: suggesting morphs to get the flesh to be flexible, as per your comment)
Josh darling
joint morphs
new morph tools
@daybird - Wow! I think you're doing quite well. It may be in part a question of body type/proportions, which I ran into even in my simple pose. I wish I had something more helpful to add, but I like it so far. I mean, really, I'm impressed. Yeah, the hair looks good definitely.
@Diomede - You ninja'd me. Hehehe... I like that you're always able to contribute helpfully like that.
@daybird - It sort of looks like there is light shining down on her legs at an angle so that it highlights her skin behind her hair. How exactly to achieve that look with all the same shadowy areas intact is something I'm not able to offer.
I think you're doing great. It's very close. You are going to run into some limitations simply because your models aren't as flexible as humans. I would play with the figure morphs to see if you can change anything to get the figures closer. I think you are on the right track, though. The only major problem I see is the clipping where her wrists meet his arms. If you can take care of that, you'll be there. Needing to turn limits off isn't unusual for posing. We have to do that all of the time. You're doing good.
Shinji Ikara 9th Looks like a nice start.
@Daybird, @Knittingmommy, @Wanderer thank you for the encouragement.
Here is a first attempt. Don't know whether it is Dada or Surrealist, but it is 3D.
Title: Breaking Barriers
Software: DAZ Studio 4.10 Pro
Pose from attached image - woman with boxing gloves punching man.
@daybird - wow! If you weren't trying to match a reference pose, I wouldn't have any critiques other than the issue with the wrists that @knittingmommy mentioned. Even then, if I didn't know a fair bit about dance, I don't think I could find anything else to say.
A lot of the little differences are due to the musculature of these dancers - not something daz figures can always match. as is, you've done a great job - the veins especially are spot on.
I agree, I think the woman is a bit taller than you have her. I also suspect she's got long legs, so that her knees come out farther and her legs are more bent. I'll try to draw a diagram to illustrate what I mean - I'm not explaining it very well.
As to the lighting - it's stage lighting, so it's very unnatural, and the photo reference has been contrast-enhanced. The whites are overblown and the darks are burnt in. As a stylistic technique, it looks amazing - but since it emphasizes the dancers' muscles, it makes the posing more difficult to imitate. Just something to be aware of.
~LaPetite
@RA - You've made something really interesting with your interpretation. I think it's cool that you've made it your own thing. I don't know if it would mess up the look you're after, but the back of the woman seems a bit slanted more back than I think you have in your version. However, that's all I really have to offer. Very interesting. I like that it disturbs me a bit. If the purpose of art is partly to evoke a response in the viewer, you've achieved that certainly for me.
@daybird
So this is my best guess as to how her joints line up in relation to the stage floor. The dark blue more or less lines up with his heels, the turquoise lines up with her toes, and the green is in front of her toes.
And here is my best guess as to stage lighting placement. The yellow is meant to be strongest and coming from above and just slightly behind and stage right of them; the green light is coming from above and a bit in front of them from stage left. Given that it's stage lighting, I'm sure multiple lights (the daz equivalent is spotlights) are being used.
Again, this is just my best guess, but hopefully it helps!
On a random note, I think I just found the girl Amandla (see promo image 3 especially!) was modeled on while poking around on Unsplash: https://unsplash.com/photos/ZqMEbVnKqKU ;
@LaPetiteVerita - Thank you for sharing. It's very useful information. I know that I struggle with lighting, especially artistic use of same. I would have a very hard time with this work. What daybird has accomplished already is really awesome. It's stuff like this that makes me all too aware that I might need to spend serious time in study if I ever want to improve.
First off all, thx for all the kind comments and suggestions, especially to Diomede for the link and LaPetiteVerita for the detailed explanation. :)
You put a lot of work in it to explain what you mean. My sorry that I have not answered faster, because I have understand instant what you mean. I have thought about that by myself, but after worked at the pose so long, I tended to post it, to get the suggestion of others.
It seems that I have to do the whole work again, pose her anew and look, if I can manage, to bring her body parts in the right proportions.
@RA
Now that is different to the other works. It's funny how fast i have tried to interpret somthing in this work. It looks for me, like he breaks his cage that cramped him.
I'm also curious, what he used, to ram the metal grid? Looks like a broken barrel. How did you create that?
The expression is well done, but with his back I agree with Wanderer.
@Wanderer, thanks so much. Thanks for your suggestion. I've been struggling to emulate the woman's head position. I believe part of my problem is my figure's neck is shorter. Also, humans have a "stick your neck out" setting, but DAZ figures do not, at least not one that I own. I did learn that there is a posable upper neck and posable lower neck. So, this my next iteration. I'll keep working on it.
@RA
Now that is different to the other works. It's funny how fast i have tried to interpret somthing in this work. It looks for me, like he breaks his cage that cramped him.
I'm also curious, what he used, to ram the metal grid? Looks like a broken barrel. How did you create that?
The expression is well done, but with his back I agree with Wanderer.
@daybird, thanks for checking it out. I just posted an updated version, but I am still having trouble postng the head. I may lengthen the figure's neck and try again. This new version includes the entire scene, as I wanted it to appear like a 3D modern art painting. I did use a crate and a door. Yesterday, I followed a tutorial to learn how to Dform. That is the weird geometry on the blue door and the crate.
The symbolism is based on two idioms "breaking out of the box" and "opening closed doors".
Daybird, what an outstanding image - pose, lighting, render. Concerning the hips, I have shape modifiers that allow me to lengthen or shorten a figure's legs. It may be that your female is taller than the model in your image, which would explain why her hips sit higher up on the other model's thighs. Anyway, wonderful job.
RA
@Wanderer, to me the fire-chains look like they are moving. Very impressive.
RA
@Tynkere, Great energy in your poses. They looked like they are engaging the enemy before they hit the ground.
RA
Ok so here's my second version - getting closer to the original.
I’m going to swim upstream, and go against what seems majority opinion here-- even by the CVs!
Who cares about her buttocks! Bollocks!
(Although at 'The Commons' someone with a sense of humor did post link to a product that might be aptly named...
)
https://www.daz3d.com/sy-decrackifier-for-genesis-8
I keep coming back to your work though because there’s something I still can’t quite put my finger on.
Your renders all have a kind of unfinished look to them, but in a good way. Kind of impressionistic.
So the predictable critques, "Her feet look like they're floating. Her leg is clipping into the other leg...."
Who cares?
If you followed ‘conventional wisdom’ your renders wouldn’t be “You” anymore if that makes any sense. I mean if you showed me a dozen renders, I wouldn’t know who did them. “Just Another Render” -- nice one yes-- wish I could do that-- but same ol’ stuff.
12 renders and I’d I could easily say, “I bet that’s Sueya...” They're mysterious maybe... Cryptic if that’s not too silly. Keeps me looking at them, and I can't explain why.
Bottom line: I think your renders are different, and I think that’s special. Hate to see you change too much and have your work end up looking like everyone else’s.
Laugh if you want to. Bruce-- the art critic-- but if I make someone smile-- may day hasn't been wasted.
Thanks for reading!
@ RA
Thank you. It got slammed pretty good this time around, but that’s OK. Only way I’ll get better at it!
Are you a fine artist, or just know a lot about art? Was enjoying our chatting about color theory before we ran out of time.
Anyway, kind of like Sueya-- no one can say your idea is just the ‘same old same old!’ I’m going to laugh if someone says, “It lacks depth. You need to add shadows.”
It’s an exercise in the absurd? I “grok” if you’ve ever read Heinlein.
Looking forward to see where you take this!
@ Daybird
So KnittingMommy was nice enough to check, and tell me I don’t have to copy the photo exactly. That’s good because gods!
That’s really close. Her feet aren’t exact match, but who cares. They symmetry in photo a very good choice, and like how you chose to use gray scale. That’s one wicked shadow making a cool shape at the base!
Look forward to seeing what it looks like when you remove reference photo and really start tweaking it.
@ Shinji
Can see how that one would be hard. You probably know a lot more about Sci-Fi and hard core Sci-Fi than I do.
Like what you probably did with the polished floors for reflections & shield casting soft glow on his face.
Preset for stuff like red indicator light in background, or you made it? Where do you find these sets? Pretty cool!
@ Wanderer
Don’t use Blender & not familiar with d-Force so can’t really say much. You’ve added more light? I like how you can see more of the man sitting on the wagon stairs now. Assme you know what your doing, but be interesting to see how you handle clipping of magnesium fire props. I'd say make an alpha channel in photoshop-- tone them down/add texture-- but if nothing there on R G & B... That's a tough one. Be interesting to see. Hope you figure it out!
@ LaPetite
Very nice of you to take the time with something like that. As Wanderer has already said, much appreciated. I think we can all benefit.
Meanwhile though, looking forward to seeing yours! How's photo search coming?
@ Diomede
Heh. Like it!
And maybe (this will be hilarious -- my esteemed five months experience up against your experience in 3D) but...
Welcome to the wonderful world of posing hands! I have a love/hate relationship with posing hands (esp. the thumb) holding things like binoculars, a tobacco pipe-- any irregular shaped object. Will have to get one of those free guitar props and have fun with it now!
Looks like you’ve got expressions down. Kind of goes without saying it’s not going to take you very long.
@ Everyone
Hope I haven’t left anyone out. Four day work week so a lot of catching up to do. I didn’t think I’d be able to do much this month. 12 hours of staring at a computer monitor-- last thing I figured I'd want to do is go home and fire mine up. Found out though, that DS is a nice way to unwind. Very relaxing and much better than just watching TV. : )
Thanks for reading!
--Bruce
As for me, unrelated question. How do you multiquote here? Three posts on one topic seems overlong.
Anyway, here's this week and I'm kind of stuck.
First off, maybe a bit of explanation. Ran into problem with gunflash and what to use as background. Who is he shooting at?
Then I read an article about Grenfell Tower and thought, "Why not have him Emergency Rescue sort of thing?"
So obviously, it's paying my respects, and a tribute to them. It's also a statement. Record profits and a big fat pay raise eh? If anyone's feet need to be held to the fire, but nevermind. Better stay away from opinions unless they're about art.
So...
Which one do you think looks the best?
First one keeps his feet sort of swinging into action towards flames in lower RH corner.
Or... Have his legs tucked in a little -- ready to put feet on ground, clutch kiddo to his side, and off to a speedy rescue. Sometimes I overthink these things.
Thanks for looking and hope you enjoy!
--Bruce
"Feet towards the flames" version
"Ready to set down" version
---
PS:
@ Chohole
Moderators are busy-- esp. one's who have animated avatars with little old ladies & cudgels-- but if you have the time...
Seat rig look about right? Getting the belt to look like it's holding all his weight proving tough. Lot of d-forms on this project.
---
Thanks everyone for looking & hope you enjoy!
--Bruce
---
Edit: weeding out old imgur files. PM missing links.
Sueya, wow. That is an amazing pose you've created. (I'm going to yoga this moring, so I feel intimidated). Where did you start? Hips Waist?
The only observation I could make is that the reference model seems to have her shoulders twisted a bit more (R toward the ground, L toward the ceiling)
Great work; especially for this challenge!
RA
@Tynkere - Thanks for the suggestion, but as I said, I'm not really ready to do postwork. Still, I appreciate your thoughts on it. I can see you're putting a lot of work into your scene. About your pose, I was never trained for any sort of rescue operations, nor do I have experience picking up anything while in a harness like that, although I did get basic training instruction for what it's worth (maybe not much), anyway, I'm just thinking of what I would do if I were in, say, a swing seat, and I wanted to lean over like that to pick something up, my feet would probably be more like the first image. Maybe Chohole can chime in or someone else with experience. I tried to Google a search and rescue video that might show, but I wasn't able to come up with something in the short time I looked. Probably something out there. As for opinions, yeah, I get that.
@Sueya - Please let me be clear that I think you've got a difficult pose and you're off to a great start, but the suggestion I made about the hips was from the stand point that we are trying to match the image pose and I think it would help if you could get the hips more closely aligned with the image and go from there. Other than that, I think you're art is great for being uniquely yours.
@RA - Thank you so much. Your work approaches something like museum art to my thoughts, whereas, for many of us, a render is a render is a render. I'm torn about the update. I actually think there's some power in the more intimate framing of the original you created that feels somehow lessened in the update, though the update has merits of its own. I wish I had more to say, but I feel out of my depth with more sophisticated visions like yours.
@daybird - Ack! I'm not certain you should start over if that's what you're saying. The image you've chosen is amazing and, for me, it seems you have quite a challenge there, which you've handled very well considering their body shapes. I had a hard time with the light interaction with my figure because it didn't match the body type/proportion close enough to allow a more exact repeat within my level of skill. As they each stand, I think your image and the original are both very striking. You are so, so very close already.
Others have been very quiet lately. I hope to hear more from them soon.
Most of the enviroments that I use are ether from here, or over at renderocity, the later of them being where I got this item that I'm using for the shield. I've also used some stuff from 3-d-c over at ShareCG, who also created some of the set peaces that I've gotten over at renderocity..
Ok, next try. I changed nearly everything in the scene. Not much, but with the change of the proportions from the G8F it was necessary.
I'm a little scared, that I have lost the original impact, but better to ignore the fear and try something new, than stay on the same level.
So posing, proportions, hair and even the light looks different.
Finally I found out how to add a smoth modifier to the G8M, so that the arms of both figures can be better interact with each other. Not perfect, I know, but better than nothing.
(This is something I will use much more often, now that I figured it out, how I can use it.) LEARNED AGAIN SOMETHING NEW!
Ok, next try. I changed nearly everything in the scene. Not much, but with the change of the proportions from the G8F it was necessary.
I'm a little scared, that I have lost the original impact, but better to ignore the fear and try something new, than stay on the same level.
So posing, proportions, hair and even the light looks different.
Finally I found out how to add a smoth modifier to the G8M, so that the arms of both figures can be better interact with each other. Not perfect, I know, but better than nothing.
(This is something I will use much more often, now that I figured it out, how I can use it.) LEARNED AGAIN SOMETHING NEW!
@daybird I think you nailed it. The pose looks about as close as you can get with current models. Well done.
@sueya It's looking pretty good. Her wrists look a little odd. Did you have to turn off limits? It might also just be the camera angle making them look like they have a little extra twist. Which figure are you using and do you have the basic body morphs to go with it? I think most of the figures have a basic body morph that might fake that curve of her back if you can't get it through posing alone. Let me know which figure and what morphs you have and I'll see if I can remember which morph that was. If I recall, the morph creates a sort of swayback which might mimic that curve you need. You also have the left arm too far back, I think. The reference image is a little more centered and lines up with her spine more. Overall, it's looking really good.