Photo-real characters. A different approach.

MelissaGT

SadRobot said:

melissastjames said:

Thanks guys! There's really not a whole heap to it. I do play around with bump maps (they are usually too high) and top coat, but each character is different. In terms of SSS, I take the color map and then go to Photoshop. From there, I overlay one of the good G3 SSS maps (for females, Vicky 7 for Vicky 8 with brows removed because it uses the base UV and for males Lee 7 with brows removed because it has no hair painted on and it also seems to match the base male UV). I then use blood vessel maps that I found on DeviantArt and overlay those to the color map and G3 SSS map...creating a new improved SSS for the character. I don't really feel comfortable sharing the link to the blood vessel maps, as the person who posted them isn't the original artist...I don't even know who the original artist is. I only use them for my own stuff. You should be able to pull them right up on Google (and no, I am not the person who posted them on DeviantArt). The maps were made for the base G3F/G8F UV, so ones for male characters will take some manual modification. But that's really it...it's that same formula I use for all characters, and it works out to 100% color map, 25% G3 SSS, 25% Blood Vessel Map. 

Some additional notes - Bump is usually too high on characters out of the box. I turn it down on everything but lips and nails. Most characters can benefit from a little bit of Top Coat. To get a good idea of individual shader settings, try opening up one of the base G8 figures to see what those settings look like. The settings themselves are typically pretty good, and I've noticed that Daz tends to use the same (or very similar) settings across the board for their characters. I've used Tasha 8 shader settings as a good reference for females, and Nix 8 for males (and then you just have to swap out the SSS map and maybe play around with the SSS tints). Lastly, don't be afraid to mix and match. I use a lot of what I call "frankenskins"....color map from here, specular map from there, etc. Just experiment with what looks good. 

Oh, and don't be afraid to dial up the HD add-on's to above 100%! Also note that I always render my characters at SubD 4. 

In the examples attached, I have my tweaked version of Tasha 8 compared to out of the box. I also have Muosso's Reese to show that even top-shelf PA characters can benefit. And lastly, I have my most recent "frankenskin"...which uses the color map from Bramble by Lyoness. For this customized character, I only used the color map from Bramble...the Specular and Bump maps come from Victoria 7 for Victoria 8 (Bramble on the left, my tweaks on the right). 

This is a fascinating point. It’s also pretty easy to add some of this procedurally in Blender using a noise texture node and running the color output of into a MixRGB node and adjusting to taste. Thanks for the tip!

I have no idea what you just said, lol. I just know how to tweak my twerks with the shader settings. :/

kyoto kid

melissastjames said:

kyoto kid said:

...SBP3  allows for adjusting the translucency colour which generally has a more "yellow" tint to it.  I often adjust it a little more to the pink end and lighten it a bit particularly for fair and albino skins.  Is that pretty much the same? 

There is also an adjustment for top coat glossiness as well as overlays for veins, freckles, and skin imperfections.

Adjusting these does not affect the thumbnail in the programme so test rendering is still required. 

I primarily use Anigenesis 2 a bit sparingly just to give the skin a little more detail when needed.

Haven't played much with render SubD as I have older hardware (don't even go beyond Render Quality 2 in the render settings) and only a few G3 characters come with HD settings (which means having to purchase the HD add-ons which is a budget cruncher).

I honestly don't know what SBP3 is so I'm not sure. With chromatic SSS, you want to keep the actual translucency color white, which makes sense. Underneath our skin, we're all pretty much the same color, which is what the SSS map is for. The tint shaders is where you can adjust for color, as we all have different tints to our skin. I will note, that for folks with older hardware, chromatic SSS absolutely adds onto render time. That's why shader settings packs such as Altern8 say they save render time...because they change a G8 character from chromatic SSS back to mono SSS. 

...apologies, Skin Builder 3. 

https://www.daz3d.com/skin-builder-3-for-genesis-3-female-s

In it, the default translucency colour shows as light orange (see SS attachment below)

Yeah I'm one with older hardware. I used to work with AoA's SSS utilities in 3DL before Iray was introduced and never noticed much of an increase in rendering time with that (UE was usually the major culprit).

Isn't Altern8 similar to Anigenesis 2 for G3 (I don't work much with G8).

SadRobot

melissastjames said:

SadRobot said:

melissastjames said:

Thanks guys! There's really not a whole heap to it. I do play around with bump maps (they are usually too high) and top coat, but each character is different. In terms of SSS, I take the color map and then go to Photoshop. From there, I overlay one of the good G3 SSS maps (for females, Vicky 7 for Vicky 8 with brows removed because it uses the base UV and for males Lee 7 with brows removed because it has no hair painted on and it also seems to match the base male UV). I then use blood vessel maps that I found on DeviantArt and overlay those to the color map and G3 SSS map...creating a new improved SSS for the character. I don't really feel comfortable sharing the link to the blood vessel maps, as the person who posted them isn't the original artist...I don't even know who the original artist is. I only use them for my own stuff. You should be able to pull them right up on Google (and no, I am not the person who posted them on DeviantArt). The maps were made for the base G3F/G8F UV, so ones for male characters will take some manual modification. But that's really it...it's that same formula I use for all characters, and it works out to 100% color map, 25% G3 SSS, 25% Blood Vessel Map. 

Some additional notes - Bump is usually too high on characters out of the box. I turn it down on everything but lips and nails. Most characters can benefit from a little bit of Top Coat. To get a good idea of individual shader settings, try opening up one of the base G8 figures to see what those settings look like. The settings themselves are typically pretty good, and I've noticed that Daz tends to use the same (or very similar) settings across the board for their characters. I've used Tasha 8 shader settings as a good reference for females, and Nix 8 for males (and then you just have to swap out the SSS map and maybe play around with the SSS tints). Lastly, don't be afraid to mix and match. I use a lot of what I call "frankenskins"....color map from here, specular map from there, etc. Just experiment with what looks good. 

Oh, and don't be afraid to dial up the HD add-on's to above 100%! Also note that I always render my characters at SubD 4. 

In the examples attached, I have my tweaked version of Tasha 8 compared to out of the box. I also have Muosso's Reese to show that even top-shelf PA characters can benefit. And lastly, I have my most recent "frankenskin"...which uses the color map from Bramble by Lyoness. For this customized character, I only used the color map from Bramble...the Specular and Bump maps come from Victoria 7 for Victoria 8 (Bramble on the left, my tweaks on the right). 

This is a fascinating point. It’s also pretty easy to add some of this procedurally in Blender using a noise texture node and running the color output of into a MixRGB node and adjusting to taste. Thanks for the tip!

I have no idea what you just said, lol. I just know how to tweak my twerks with the shader settings. :/

This is the basic idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_deRNqDcwRk

But it's only useful if you use Blender, really. Although the principles can be applied to Octane, Redshift, Arnold, and some others—not iRay that I’m aware, though.

MelissaGT

kyoto kid said:

melissastjames said:

kyoto kid said:

...SBP3  allows for adjusting the translucency colour which generally has a more "yellow" tint to it.  I often adjust it a little more to the pink end and lighten it a bit particularly for fair and albino skins.  Is that pretty much the same? 

There is also an adjustment for top coat glossiness as well as overlays for veins, freckles, and skin imperfections.

Adjusting these does not affect the thumbnail in the programme so test rendering is still required. 

I primarily use Anigenesis 2 a bit sparingly just to give the skin a little more detail when needed.

Haven't played much with render SubD as I have older hardware (don't even go beyond Render Quality 2 in the render settings) and only a few G3 characters come with HD settings (which means having to purchase the HD add-ons which is a budget cruncher).

I honestly don't know what SBP3 is so I'm not sure. With chromatic SSS, you want to keep the actual translucency color white, which makes sense. Underneath our skin, we're all pretty much the same color, which is what the SSS map is for. The tint shaders is where you can adjust for color, as we all have different tints to our skin. I will note, that for folks with older hardware, chromatic SSS absolutely adds onto render time. That's why shader settings packs such as Altern8 say they save render time...because they change a G8 character from chromatic SSS back to mono SSS. 

...apologies, Skin Builder 3. 

https://www.daz3d.com/skin-builder-3-for-genesis-3-female-s

In it, the default translucency colour shows as light orange (see SS attachment below)

Yeah I'm one with older hardware. I used to work with AoA's SSS utilities in 3DL before Iray was introduced and never noticed much of an increase in rendering time with that (UE was usually the major culprit).

Isn't Altern8 similar to Anigenesis 2 for G3 (I don't work much with G8).

Ah...I have Skin Builder for G3 and was not much of a fan...I didn't like how it just universally darkened or lightened the color map for different skin tones. I'm also not much of a fan of LIE for anything beyond eye makeup. Skin details like freckles, etc look much better when they are blended into the skin with an image editing program like Photohsop where they can be overlayed. Here's an example of the same freckles from Skin Builder overlayed in Photoshop with the character's color map...the results end up much more natural - 

Altern8 is very different from Anagenessis. It's that specific PA's personal shader tweaks built into a package, whereas Anagenessis 2 changes all maps to use just the color map (which I personally do not care for). Sometimes the results are nice, but other times it can be not so great. Altern8 doesn't seem to do dark skin very well at all. But again, it does rely on mono SSS, which is something that I don't really use anymore. I also was not a fan of Altern8's custom specular map. It replaces the character's own specular map so you lose out on those details. 

beyonder2k9

Here is a quick attempt I did. I also did this for the vascularity thread.

Mendoman

I think one of the most important thing in search for photorealism comes from specular map and rest of the glossy settings. If light is not reflecting correctly, then different lights etc. will mess up the skin shader. Probably the biggest problem I've had is that skin is looking "waxy". I don't know if that's the correct word, but skin looks kind of lifeless and matte and absolutely not real.

kyoto kid

melissastjames said:

kyoto kid said:

melissastjames said:

kyoto kid said:

...SBP3  allows for adjusting the translucency colour which generally has a more "yellow" tint to it.  I often adjust it a little more to the pink end and lighten it a bit particularly for fair and albino skins.  Is that pretty much the same? 

There is also an adjustment for top coat glossiness as well as overlays for veins, freckles, and skin imperfections.

Adjusting these does not affect the thumbnail in the programme so test rendering is still required. 

I primarily use Anigenesis 2 a bit sparingly just to give the skin a little more detail when needed.

Haven't played much with render SubD as I have older hardware (don't even go beyond Render Quality 2 in the render settings) and only a few G3 characters come with HD settings (which means having to purchase the HD add-ons which is a budget cruncher).

I honestly don't know what SBP3 is so I'm not sure. With chromatic SSS, you want to keep the actual translucency color white, which makes sense. Underneath our skin, we're all pretty much the same color, which is what the SSS map is for. The tint shaders is where you can adjust for color, as we all have different tints to our skin. I will note, that for folks with older hardware, chromatic SSS absolutely adds onto render time. That's why shader settings packs such as Altern8 say they save render time...because they change a G8 character from chromatic SSS back to mono SSS. 

...apologies, Skin Builder 3. 

https://www.daz3d.com/skin-builder-3-for-genesis-3-female-s

In it, the default translucency colour shows as light orange (see SS attachment below)

Yeah I'm one with older hardware. I used to work with AoA's SSS utilities in 3DL before Iray was introduced and never noticed much of an increase in rendering time with that (UE was usually the major culprit).

Isn't Altern8 similar to Anigenesis 2 for G3 (I don't work much with G8).

Ah...I have Skin Builder for G3 and was not much of a fan...I didn't like how it just universally darkened or lightened the color map for different skin tones. I'm also not much of a fan of LIE for anything beyond eye makeup. Skin details like freckles, etc look much better when they are blended into the skin with an image editing program like Photohsop where they can be overlayed. Here's an example of the same freckles from Skin Builder overlayed in Photoshop with the character's color map...the results end up much more natural - 

Altern8 is very different from Anagenessis. It's that specific PA's personal shader tweaks built into a package, whereas Anagenessis 2 changes all maps to use just the color map (which I personally do not care for). Sometimes the results are nice, but other times it can be not so great. Altern8 doesn't seem to do dark skin very well at all. But again, it does rely on mono SSS, which is something that I don't really use anymore. I also was not a fan of Altern8's custom specular map. It replaces the character's own specular map so you lose out on those details. 

...the overlays in SB3 do not use the LIE (I remember this form the product pre-release thread) and it also does involve a multiplicative blending process.  Unfortunately I cannot do digital painting very well due to serious arthritis which makes for a very unsteady hand, so doing so in a 2D programme like Gimp or PS is not an option. 

I have to do this on a shoestring budget which is the primary reason I didn't make the jump to G8 as in my view, the few differences didn't justify the expense of buying everything over again. 

Ironically, it was SB3 (and to a lesser extend the move to a more standard weight mapping system) that finally got me to fully adopt G3 as I didn't need to buy a bunch of character content to get a library of different skins.  I have a number of characters with very fair skin (and even a couple albino ones) which are almost impossible to find in the stock characters available in the store.  Just adjusting the gamma (which in Daz does use the LIE) lightening it in a 2D programme is not the best solution.

Again, the image I posted a bit above used SB3 for the base skin and freckles along with Anagenesis 2 just for a bit of pore detail for closeups,  I did the old photo effect in Gimp using a stock filter and a pre-written script.

aaráribel caađo

 

bluejaunte said:

Ok, figured it out... open the UV view, switch the damn view to the viewer node... with not even 3d model anywhere... why not just give me a damn save button on the viewer node... anyway, there's my little Blender rant.

How do you do this in 2.82? I tried to open the UV view, but notihing I tried turned up a render button that rendered my compositor file. 

I'm not entirely convinced I couldn't get the same look from Photoshop, but that might be that I'm using a simple set up (backdrop, 2 lights, 2 white bounce planes, and a solid gray HDR to simulate ambient room lighting), so there isn't the extreme contrast the filmic/ACES workflow seems aimed at addressing.

remcovanembden

A shot at an older character, fibermesh brows, morphs and skin and normal maps all made by myself.