A request to Vendors, PLEASE for the love of pete, consider my request
Knight22179
Posts: 1,195
I'm seeing more beautiful BF2 products out and I'm disappointed there isn't a Genesis version of said character (Darkest Eve being the latest one).
I realize not all vendors are willing to make two products, one for Genesis and the other for BF2 just as not all vendors will make two products for V4/M4 and Genesis.
So, to all Vendors. Can you please at least consider this request to try and make more of an effort to make your beautiful and wonderful products for Genesis and not just for BF2? Those of us who still use Genesis would greatly appreciate that.
I'll gladly pay more money if this means more compatibility for Genesis. ;)
Thanks.
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Don't you mean "G2F"? And I do tend to agree with you. Something I bought the other day had both Genesis and G2F versions in the same product and I didn't even realize it until later. I forget what it was right now. I was very pleased to discover that though.
^He calls it Basic Female 2. lol
In a perfect world, we'd have Gen4, Genesis, and G2F versions of everything. There probably isn't much coming out for G2F that you can't get in some form or fashion for Gen4, which can then be used on Genesis anyways. I use Gen4 for the majority of things, unless it's a really stylized character I have for Genesis (ie MS Lycan, Mavka, Taiga, Asobi, etc).
Well, clothes for Genesis can be applied to Genesis 2 via AutoFit. So everything for Genesis works for Genesis 2 as well. Most of it - with some limitations.
Because of this, a vendor who makes clothes for Genesis has a bigger market in my opinion, because Genesis 2 users may buy their clothes as well.
Most PA's, at least those that I communicate with on a regular basis, prefer to make their items compatible with both. It really comes down, sometimes, to what type of product it is.
For textures, the PA needs to decide what uv set they want to use and if it is one that is compatible with both Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. My latest release, Dolled Up, used the V4 uvs, so it was actually compatible across three generations of figures. In some cases, the PA might not have resources that can be used this way. None of us wants to limit our market, but in many circumstances it is unavoidable. In the case of some new releases, especially those centered around a new character such as Girl 6, we have to take into consideration that features like the face take textures differently on other characters. Makeup that covers the eyelids on Victoria (any generation) won't necessarily be more than barely visible on someone like Aiko or The Girl 4/6. That is why there are separate UV sets. This is also a big factor in the gender split (how I see it, not official opinion). Those PA's who can make a more universal set certainly try to do that.
As for clothing, a similar issue arises. When I model a bodysuit, for example (and I have. Still under consideration whether I will release it or not), I can model it on Genesis, then autofit it to Genesis 2 to produce a base mesh for Genesis 2. Fairly simple in most cases. But to do the reverse, to model a bodysuit or dress on Genesis 2 Female, then try to reverse out the breast area to generically fit Genesis 1 and it's androgynous style, is quite another story. Many times we begin our projects on the target figure and once you get going, it does not make sense in terms of productivity to stop and shift gears to make it Genesis 1 compatible. Some are okay with doing this, others like to keep momentum moving forward.
As for myself, I will continue to try to make all of my products compatible with both generations of Genesis. I start my new models on Genesis now, then make Genesis 2 compatible copies. I won't necessarily always want to, or be able to, do this, but for now I am listening to you and will try to do as you ask :)
This clone will allow you to autofit and use the G2F clothes on Genesis
http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-2-female-clone-for-genesis
And I will continue to do so because that is exactly what the figure is. ;)
Thanks for the explaining this to me, Slosh. I appreciate it. Even more, I appreciate that your still going to support Genesis. ;)
And I bought your Spex product, very useful and I love it. :D
Thanks, I am aware of that. But, unfortunately, it won't allow me to use the BF2 character morphs or skin textures that don't use V5's UV map.
Rumor mill has it that GenX is going to get an update. Hope that includes the ability to transfer BF2 morphs to Genesis. :)
I too have been extremely disappointed with the neglect that Genesis has gotten ever since G2 came out. I have been wondering if G2 is somehow easier for PAs to make clothing for.
I had often hoped that so many of the great clothing sets made for V4 would make their way to Genesis at some point, but considering how short the gap was between the releases of the last Gen5 characters and Victoria6, and the complete lack of support the SuperSuit, I am starting to think I would be better off just using V4. I definitely have little desire to buy any G2 stuff after spending so much on all the Gen5 characters.
Thanks, I am aware of that. But, unfortunately, it won't allow me to use the BF2 character morphs or skin textures that don't use V5's UV map.
Rumor mill has it that GenX is going to get an update. Hope that includes the ability to transfer BF2 morphs to Genesis. :)
I don't think you need GenX - you already have the transfer utility, so if you get that G2F clone for Genesis, the transfer utility will transfer the morphs.
Fed up with waiting for a G2F GenX update, I decided to try using the transfer utility to transfer some Genesis morphs to G2F, and also some V4 morphs that I'd previously used GenX to convert to Genesis. This included the entire Genesis Evolution Muscularity and Genesis Alive! morph sets, and GenX-converted-to-Genesis V4 Elite and NPM morphs, along with a bunch of Mihrelle's character head morphs. Transfer utility converted them from Genesis to G2F perfectly - if I put them onto Genesis and G2F with the same base morph applied to each, I simply cannot tell the difference. I haven't converted G2F to Genesis, but as long as you have the G2F clone for Genesis I can't see it would be any different for transfer utility than going the other way. The only difference would be that you might lose some fine detail in areas (mostly of the face) where G2F has a higher poly count - if the creator of the G2F morph actually made use of the extra polys. But that would be the case with an updated GenX as well, or the vendor making a Genesis version.
And DS includes the map transfer utility, which will convert textures between any two UV sets a figure has. So you could convert e.g. a V6 UV or Gia UV texture to V5 UVs you could then use on Genesis. Just make sure you turn the map transfer quality setting up to max and don't convert too many maps at once. (It only takes a couple of seconds to convert a limb and torso set together, so doesn't take long to go through converting a set of diffuse textures, then the bump maps, then the specularity maps, then the normal maps etc.)
Interesting thread. Myself, I am a big Genesis supporter and user and was extremely ticked off with the GF2 release, so much so i pretty much stopped work in this community and refused to even install DS4.6. Commercial responsibilities made me get back into my workflow recently and have been working my way thru what my options are regarding genesis and GF2. I am also disgusted with the lack of genesis 1 content because of GF2 and that there hasn't been an update to GenX yet so i could start using all my genesis 1 content with GF2. I have tried the various transfer methods users have posted, but nothing has been perfect, so i am still waiting for a GenX update which really does not look like it will ever come. Makes me even wonder if DAZ didn't tell the GenX creator not to produce one for GF2 since it would hurt their sales. Sucks to become reliant on a simple plugin to keep your workflow going.
Now knowing I can use GF2 content on Genesis I have a new purchase to get and this will help with my workflow, so thanks for the link.
Why would they do that? GenX is sold here and I can't imagine they would say no to big numbers for GenX again. Nor do I think it would negatively impact sales on Genesis 2 clothing. The more likely scenario is that they creator is waiting on the male figure to be sorted.
I don't think you need GenX - you already have the transfer utility, so if you get that G2F clone for Genesis, the transfer utility will transfer the morphs.
Fed up with waiting for a G2F GenX update, I decided to try using the transfer utility to transfer some Genesis morphs to G2F, and also some V4 morphs that I'd previously used GenX to convert to Genesis. This included the entire Genesis Evolution Muscularity and Genesis Alive! morph sets, and GenX-converted-to-Genesis V4 Elite and NPM morphs, along with a bunch of Mihrelle's character head morphs. Transfer utility converted them from Genesis to G2F perfectly - if I put them onto Genesis and G2F with the same base morph applied to each, I simply cannot tell the difference. I haven't converted G2F to Genesis, but as long as you have the G2F clone for Genesis I can't see it would be any different for transfer utility than going the other way. The only difference would be that you might lose some fine detail in areas (mostly of the face) where G2F has a higher poly count - if the creator of the G2F morph actually made use of the extra polys. But that would be the case with an updated GenX as well, or the vendor making a Genesis version.
And DS includes the map transfer utility, which will convert textures between any two UV sets a figure has. So you could convert e.g. a V6 UV or Gia UV texture to V5 UVs you could then use on Genesis. Just make sure you turn the map transfer quality setting up to max and don't convert too many maps at once. (It only takes a couple of seconds to convert a limb and torso set together, so doesn't take long to go through converting a set of diffuse textures, then the bump maps, then the specularity maps, then the normal maps etc.)
No idea how to use the Transfer Utility or the map transfer utility. Know of any good tutorials?
My own results using transfer utility to move Genesis morphs to G2F were so good - just what I'd have expected from an updated GenX - I find myself rather intrigued. Can you give an example or two of morphs you've tried to transfer but not managed to get a good result? I'd just like to see what I'd get if it's something I have so can try myself.
(Just for the record, I too have been very unhappy with G2F being released, right from the day of that release, if for somewhat different reasons than those given here. For one thing I am not convinced by the supposed benefits. When Genesis was released, DAZ argued that the lo-rez mesh, combined with subd, was enough for low and medium-rez detail, while any higher-rez detail could/should come from normal and/or displacement maps; Like many I was dubious at first about that, but in time was convinced. Now, suddenly, DAZ are saying they were wrong and more rez in parts of the mesh is needed after all. And on comparing joint bending between Genesis and G2F, while I can see that for some bends G2F is better than Genesis, for other bends G2F is actually worse that Genesis (sometimes MUCH worse). But my biggest complaint is what I expected to happen to the clothes market ... and which has indeed happened, even worse than I expected. I have no use for girly and skimpy female clothes, I want (a) male clothes, and (b) uniform, unisex and practical female clothing. For V1/2/3/4, M1/2/3/4, S2/S3/S4, D3/4 etc the market was terrible for me: bad for the male clothing and terrible for the kinds of female clothing I wanted. For Genesis - before G2F - the clothing market, from my POV, improved immeasurably: with the figure being both male and female, suddenly clothing PAs were making lots of male and unisex clothing out of all proportion with previously, and a much smaller proportion of girly skimpwear. Wonderful. But then G2F came out, and the market immediately collapsed back to what it was, all girly and skimpwear for G2F, and a few pallid male clothing releases for Genesis that are mostly just more limited versions of things I've already got for Genesis. Since the day of G2F release, there's hardly been a single Genesis OR G2F clothing set released I have the slightest interest in - NOT ONE clothing item in the V6, Gia6, Girl6 or Teen Josie Pro packs, for instance. No clothing PAs here (or DAZ) have been getting any of my money since the G2F release; and I'm now pretty much reconciled to the fact that the Genesis wardrobe I have now, plus conversions of all the V3/4. M3/4 and S3 and D3 clothing I have is all the wardrobe I'm ever going to have for Genesis AND (via conversion) G2F (if I ever decide to really use G2F, which as yet I have not). I'm simply going to have to rely on adaptations. So I'm furious with G2F for the effect it has had on the clothing market, which is not - to me - worth even substantial technical improvements in the base figure, let alone the very limited improvements there actually are.)
No, because I didn't look for tutorials. Just looked at the options, menus etc and figured them out myself.
I'll try and write brief instructions in posts and post them in this thread later this evening ... but no promises. I'm afraid I'm disabled with permanent crippling back pain that has two relevant effects: (I) Typing (or even just concentrating on something) produces mounting pain very rapidly so I can only do a little at a time, and unpredictably reach a point where I can't then do anything at all for several days; and (ii) I'm on permanent prescription painkillers that have only a limited effect on the pain, but severely mess with my head, so a lot of the time I can't think straight or concentrate, and I have the memory of a goldfish, frequently forgetting what I am doing while in the middle of doing it - and VERY often forgetting all about something I was going to do if I have to leave it for a few minutes, let alone a few hours.
So ... I'll try to write and post ... but no promises.
I see that explaining in some detail, but politely, with no rudeness at all, what is wrong, for me as a customer, with the balance of the products here at the moment, and why, since the release of G2F, I haven't bought any clothing for Genesis or G2F and will not be buying any in the future if the current situation persists, is not allowed.
Funny ... in the sense of 'strange', not at all of 'amusement'. If I was a PA who made clothing here - or DAZ for that matter - I would want to know and understand clearly why a customer who has spent many thousands of dollars in the DAZ store over 9 years, quite a portion on PA clothing, was no longer buying any of my new products.
Clearly that's not the case. Or at least DAZ do not wish to know, and also do not wish the PAs to know whether they want to or not.
Given that even a short post costs me quite a lot of pain to type, a long post costs me a LOT of pain to type, and both use up quite a chunk of the small proportion of time I'm up to using my computer for anything, I am not prepared to spend time and incur pain on perfectly polite posts that are then just deleted for no reason I am going to find acceptable.
I will post once more in this thread with the instructions I've just written on using DS's Map Transfer to convert textures between UVs.
I intend to post once more with instructions on using transfer utility to convert morphs - but may not: I may forget by the time I'm up to writing that.
I will not be posting in this forum (the whole DAZ forum, not just this thread) again after that. At all, ever again. Not with mods painlessly obliterating in a moment things I've suffered a lot of pain to type.
While I was here a lot every day, posting lots every day, from 2004 to 2008 when the disability started, I've only been here occasionally, reading a few posts and posting even more rarely since. so I'm not much of a loss.
I will not be replying to anything.
Texture conversion from one UV to another - e.g. V6 to V5 - using built in DS Map Transfer function:
Note - I am trying to be detailed, to avoid confusion or questions on the forum I won't see, which may give a length that looks intimidating. It is NOT hard. Once you've done it once, you will fid it takes much less time than reading these instructions; and way, way, WAY less time than it is taking writing them.
1 Load figure that has both UVs available for V6 to V5 UVs this would be G2F (requires Victoria 6 product or Teen Josie product for the V6 UVs for G2F - comes with both Victoria 6 and teen josie products).
2 On figure, in Surfaces tab, switch all surfaces involved to UVs of texture you want to convert. For V6 to V5 conversion, that's V6, then. Needn't bother with surfaces not used by maps you are going to convert (e.g. you might not bother with eye textures or mouth textures or eyelash transparencies, and insetad use native V5 maps from another set for those areas afterwards - you CAN convert all surfaces, but might think it's not worth bothering.)
N.B. The map trasnfer function will convert all maps applied to the figure - a whole set of textures - diffuse, bump, specular, normal etc - in one go. I did, however, read someone saying that when you do a lot of maps at once the results aren't so good. I haven't tested this. I have very short bursts of time when I'm able to use the computer at all and can't pare what I have with lengthy experimentation. So I do one set at a time - just the diffuse, then just the bump, then just the normal. The instructiosn below will be of this method. But it WILL convert all at one if you just apply a full character's materials and then initiate the map tramsfer. Feel free to experiment.
3 Apply the torso, limb and face diffuse maps of the V6 UV set you want to convert to all the surfaces they cover.
4 (a) Optional - if you can't remember easily which surfaces share a map, you may find it helpful, with G2F, to expand the Legacy Surfaces entry in the column in the Surfaces tab and make sure all the 1_ 2_ and 3_ entries are visible for the next step.
(b) Go to the Surfaces tab menu and click on Map Transfer ... The Map Transfer window will open.
What follows is all in the Map Transfer window:
5 Top left is an empty box marked Templates. Right-click in it, and click on New Template in the right-click menu that opened. A 'Template 1' will appear in the Template box.
6 Go over to the box to the right, where there is a list of all the surface names. You need to drag each surface that shares one texture over and drop it onto Template 1 in the left box. Doesn't matter which set of maps, but easiest to go with the 1_, 2_ and 3_ of the names of the surfaces as they are in the 'Legacy set of surfaces I advised having visible in 4 (a) above in the Surfaces tab. So, using the V4, Genesis and G2F legacy conventions, drag Lips, Nostrils and Face from the right box and drop on Template in the left box.
7 Right-Click again in the left Template box and click on New Template again. 'Template 2' will appear. Drag each of the surfaces that share another texture from the right boxes and drop them on Template 2 in the left box - to use the V4/Genesis/G2F Legacy map numbers, drag all the 2_ surfaces to Template 2, which is Nipples, Head, Hips, Neck, Torso, and drop them each on Template 2 in the left box.
8 Right-Click again in the left Template box and click on New Template again. 'Template 3' will appear. Drag each of the surfaces that share another texture from the right boxes and drop them on Template 3 in the left box - to use the V4/Genesis/G2F Legacy map numbers, drag all the 3_ surfaces to Template 3, which is Fingernails, Forearms, Feet, Shoulders, Hands, Legs, Toenails and drop them each on Template 3 in the left box.
(Optional - you can create more templates for e.g. the mouth and eye surfaces if you want - onne template per texture, with all surfaces that share a texture dragged onto one Template #.
9 Each surface you have now put in the left Template box can have its own separate settings down below, but we want the same for all. Luckily you can select more than one surface, so in the left, Templates box, using click and shooft-click, or multi[le CTRL-clicks, select ALL of the surfaces in the left, Template box and keep them selected throughout what follows (doesn't matter if the 'Templeta 1' etc is selected as well as the surfaces, so you cna just select the top of the list tnem shift-click on the bottom oe to select all of them).
10 We will now go down through the settings below the upper boxes: First, Surface Options: Target UV Map: click and select the UV map you want the textures converted to. In this V6 to V5 example, you pick 'Victoria 5'.
11 Now you need to have all the Template 1, Template 2, Template 3 selected in the upper left box. Doesn't matter if the surfaces are select too or not, so if you selected the entire contents of the left box in 9, you already have them selected. This will allow the rest of the settings to be set. For 'Save converted textures to' navigate to and select the folder you want the converted textures placed.
12 Set the filetype you want the converted textures. I use the same as the textures to be converted, so JPEGs for the diffuse textures, but TIFFs for the normal maps, etc.
13 Baking Quality - Drag the slider over all the way to the right ... 10.
14 Optional - 'SAVE' will save the setup you have done. this means that next time, after 4 above (opening the Map Transfer window) you can jsut come to the bottom and LOAD the saved setup and all the Template 1, Template 2 etc stuff will just appear without you having to do all that again. Just remember that on another occasion you may want to change the save location, filetype to convert to (jpeg to TIFF for normal maps, for example) before converting.
Now, you are ready, so hit the Accept button. In a couple of seconds, go look in the folder you specified and have a look at the converted textures.
That is it,
If following what I said about doing one type of map at a time, REMOVE the diffuse maps you've converted from V6, apply just the bump maps, then repeat. Remove the bumps, apply the specularity maps and repeat. If there are normal maps, remove the specularity ones, apply the Nomral maps and repeat. If you saved the settings as in above to use each time (changing filetypes where appropriate), after the first time it'll take less than a minute per map type.
That's it for now.
I will try to write instructions for converting morphs G2F to G (or other way round) later. Can't now - pain rising too high, and concentrating too hard. Maybe later tonight (UK time). Maybe tomorrow. Though unfortunately if not tonight, very likely I'll forget all about it and this thread. Sorry. (Even PM reminders seldom help - if the PM comes when I'm not up to responding immediately - which is most of the time - I'll have fogotten all about the PM within minutes, never mind by the time I am next up to doing anything.
That was, if I remember correctly, one of the reasons that were given for why we suddenly need Genesis 2 Female. That and that clothing creators could now adequately take into account the 'female form', which is why boobsacks and stuff like that have, off course, completely vanished from the market :/
Still, I always thought Genesis sucked at anything except weird freak characters and monsters, Gensis 2 is a tiny bit better in that regard, so I prefer it - for humans.
Boobsacks? What does that even mean? I'm guessing it is yet another derogatory word for something to do with women's clothes but seriously can not imagine the use of a sack on most women's form.
At first I thought he meant bras, but the more I read it I wonder if he means that horrible shrinkwrap effect that happens with clothing around Genesis' breasts.
I don't think you need GenX - you already have the transfer utility, so if you get that G2F clone for Genesis, the transfer utility will transfer the morphs.
Fed up with waiting for a G2F GenX update, I decided to try using the transfer utility to transfer some Genesis morphs to G2F, and also some V4 morphs that I'd previously used GenX to convert to Genesis. This included the entire Genesis Evolution Muscularity and Genesis Alive! morph sets, and GenX-converted-to-Genesis V4 Elite and NPM morphs, along with a bunch of Mihrelle's character head morphs. Transfer utility converted them from Genesis to G2F perfectly - if I put them onto Genesis and G2F with the same base morph applied to each, I simply cannot tell the difference. I haven't converted G2F to Genesis, but as long as you have the G2F clone for Genesis I can't see it would be any different for transfer utility than going the other way. The only difference would be that you might lose some fine detail in areas (mostly of the face) where G2F has a higher poly count - if the creator of the G2F morph actually made use of the extra polys. But that would be the case with an updated GenX as well, or the vendor making a Genesis version.
And DS includes the map transfer utility, which will convert textures between any two UV sets a figure has. So you could convert e.g. a V6 UV or Gia UV texture to V5 UVs you could then use on Genesis. Just make sure you turn the map transfer quality setting up to max and don't convert too many maps at once. (It only takes a couple of seconds to convert a limb and torso set together, so doesn't take long to go through converting a set of diffuse textures, then the bump maps, then the specularity maps, then the normal maps etc.)
No idea how to use the Transfer Utility or the map transfer utility. Know of any good tutorials?
Kattey explains using the Transfer Utility to transfer morphs from Genesis to G2F here: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/24093/ I'm sure it could be used to go the other way, too.
From what I understand, that is the word that is most usually used to describe the effect when clothing sticks to a female characters breasts with not physical reason to do so. I should hope it's derogatory since it's one of the #1 indicators of badly made clothing.
From what I understand, that is the word that is most usually used to describe the effect when clothing sticks to a female characters breasts with no physical reason to do so. I should hope it's derogatory since it's one of the #1 indicators of badly made clothing.
Especially egregious in G2F clothing considering that we've been told the main reason for going back to the gender split was to prevent this -- that vendors had found it difficult to make clothing intended for a female figure on the androgynous Genesis1 base, especially simulating realistic fabric drape and stretch around the breasts.
David, thank you for typing up these instructions. I know it cost you a lot of pain. This is a huge help to me, so thank you for your generosity. Thank you very much. :)
No idea how to use the Transfer Utility or the map transfer utility. Know of any good tutorials?
Kattey explains using the Transfer Utility to transfer morphs from Genesis to G2F here: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/24093/ I'm sure it could be used to go the other way, too.
Thanks, I'll have to give it a whirl
It being derogatory has nothing to do with how the clothing is made and everything to do with the fact that it could only be used when discussing the female. There are plenty of word choices that don't sound like they are aimed at the wearer and not the clothing.
Thanks, I'll have to give it a whirl
Transfer utility can be used both ways but there are several moments that need to be considered if you transfer G2F morphs to Genesis:
- G2F has 'embedded' female form in all her body morphs. To get rid of it I needed to unlock Genesis morph in G2F first.
- Transfer utility, as far as I'm aware at this moment, doesn't transfer ERC links. So if morph in any way shifts the bones, uses joint controlled or morph controlled morphs, the links will be broken, and while partial morphs themselves will be transferred, links will have to be recreated anew.
- Some morphs (usually drastic ones) also require Bone Adjustment with ERC freeze to look better. Automated Bone Adjustment might not work on some morphs if they had fine tuned rigging.
- People reported on several occasions some eye and inner mouth problems. I didn't have eye problems, but inner morph transfer on a very deformed morph might be tricky.
- Delicate, small detailed morphs like Bodybuilder Details, might be slightly smoothed out by transfer. To mitigate it, I usually boost the initial morph about 105% before exporting.
- If morph has same name/label as another morph, DS will only see one of them. To prevent this I had to manually rename all G2F morphs through text editing (by adding _F at the end of name and label); you can do the same through property of each morph but it is kind of tedious process. With new Property Editor in latest DS versions it might be easier now, though.
It being derogatory has nothing to do with how the clothing is made and everything to do with the fact that it could only be used when discussing the female. There are plenty of word choices that don't sound like they are aimed at the wearer and not the clothing.
But clothes like that actually look like they have a separate sack for boobs - a boobsack. This part of clothes modeled this way. And this word isn't aimed on wearer or even creator or on female in particular. It is a property of badly modeled clothes, regardless of the gender and if male clothes would have badly modeled pectoral areas of similar appearance they'd also have boobsacks.
As for using word 'boobs' - I'm using it all the time to describe my own upper female parts. It is a funny little bouncy word. Much better than alternatives, anyway.
A sack by definition is "a loose, unfitted, or shapeless garment, in particular" so I am having a really hard time believing that the negativity was really aimed at the clothing fit. Nor would the word boob on its own be a problem.
But the sack is also a separate bag-like object that allows to carry things inside, like sack of potatoes, for example - and this badly-modeled region sticks out so much from the rest of clothes that it is almost like a separate entity entirely, some sort of sack that was jabbed onto chest separately with the only purpose to keep boobs inside without regards to the rest of the outfit. It could be a 'bag', I guess, but 'boobbag' doesn't sound as neat as 'boobsack'