G2F and G2M Head and Body Evolution Morphs: delta comparison.
Kattey
Posts: 2,899
DavidGB suggested a way to compare G2M and G2F morph deltas by looking at them in the text editor. I decided to check and see how many of original morph deltas are actually in each pack. The test took me about a day to make @_@
Conditions of test:
For the purpose of comparison, I only compared morphs with some actual delta (vertex distance difference between base shape and final morphed shape), not control (CTRL), scaling (SCL), or alias files, and if morph is a mix of control and delta, I compared deltas only; although in some cases I also noted similarities in "formulas" where I suppose the bone rig adjustments are.
I've used Bred3 editor which allows easy comparison of parsed data by method of 100% aligning of related sample blocks in two separate windows with precision: by quickly switching between two perfectly aligned windows a couple of times the difference in delta, if any, becomes visually obvious. Bred3 also allows to move a page down with precision by the same amount of lines, so if after hitting page down same amount of times for both files data lines still align by the first number (such as [ 18450,) I can be sure I didn't miss any additional in-between lines.
Each G2M morph delta is sampled in 3-4 places (2, if very small) in blocks of about 40-45-50 lines each against morph delta of the file with the same name in G2F morphs. Deltas are considered to be the same only if _all_ of those 3-4 samples are the same, digit to digit.
Places of the comparison are chosen from the approximate beginning, the approximate middle and the approximate end of the delta block at random.
Compressed morphs are decompressed by adding the .zip extension to dsf file and unzipping the file with PeaZip as if it was a regular archive.
There was no any transfer done between figures. There were no files resaved in any way. With exception of decompressing, those files are exactly the same files I've got from the store. G2F morphs and essentials weren't updated since about four months ago, so what I have is more or less what I got from the store at the first download. G2M morphs are brand new, bought and installed on Thursday, I believe.
As usual I don't claim to be 100% right in everything and I welcome corrections if you tested something on your own and saw a different results.
I need also to note that sometimes morph is a complex thing, which deltas is only a part of, but for the purpose of this test, I only compared deltas.
Morphs with different deltas are marked with (*)
Result logs:
G2M and G2F Head Morphs (regular price of each morphpack: $19.95)
MCMFaceAngleBack.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
MCMFaceAngleForward.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMBrowDefineL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMBrowDefineL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMBrowDepthL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMBrowDepthR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMBrowWidthL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMBrowWidthR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMCheekBonesSizeL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMCheekBonesSizeR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMCheekBonesWidth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMCheeksDefine.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMCheeksDepthL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMCheeksDepthR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMCheeksDimpleCreaseL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMCheeksDimpleCreaseR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
*PHMCheeksSinkL.dsf - the different delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
*PHMCheeksSinkR.dsf - the different delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMChinCleft.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMChinCrease.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMChinCreaseSmooth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMChinDepth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
*PHMChinWidthL.dsf - the different delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
*PHMChinWidthR.dsf - the different delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMCraniumSlope.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMCrowsFeet.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEarlobesAttached - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEarlobesLength.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEarlobesSize.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEarsAngleL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEarsAngleR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEarsDepth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEarsElf.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEarsElfLong.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEarsHeightL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEarsHeightR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEarsSizeL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEarsSizeR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyelashesCurl.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyelashesHideLayer1.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyelashesHideLayer2.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyelashesLength.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyelashesTopPoint.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyelidsBottomDefine.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyelidsBottomInHeight.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyelidsBottomOutHeight.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyelidsFoldDown.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyelidsHeavy.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyelidsLowerHeight.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyelidsSmooth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyelidsTopInHeight.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyelidsTopOutHeight.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyelidsUpperHeightL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyelidsUpperHeightR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyesAlmondInnerL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyesAlmondInnerR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyesAlmondOuterL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyesAlmondOuterR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyesAngleL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyesAngleR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyesCorneaBulge.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyesDepthL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyesDepthR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyesHeightInner.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyesHeightL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyesHeightOuter.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyesHeightR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyesInnerDepth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyesIrisCorrection.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyesIrisSize.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyesPuffyLower.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyesPuffyUpper.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyesSizeL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyesSizeR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyesWidthL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyesWidthR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMEyesWrinkle.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMFaceCenterDepth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMFaceFlatL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMFaceFlatR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMFaceHeartL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMFaceHeartR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMFaceRoundL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMFaceRoundR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMFaceSquareL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMFaceSquareR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMFaceYoung.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMForeheadDefine.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMForeheadFlat.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMForeheadRound.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMForeheadWrinkleL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMForeheadWrinkleR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMJawAngle.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMJawCornerWidthL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMJawCornerWidthR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMJawCurve.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMJawDefine.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMJawHeightL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMJawHeightR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
*PHMJawLineDepth.dsf - the different delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMJawSizeL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMJawSizeR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMLacrimalsPinch.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMLacrimalsSize.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
*PHMLipLowerDepth.dsf - the different delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMLipLowerSize.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMLipLowerWidth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMLipsEdgeDefine.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMLipsHeart.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
*PHMLipsSquare.dsf - the different delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMLipsThin.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMLipTopPeak.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMLipUpperCurves.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMLipUpperDepth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMLipUpperSize.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMMouthCurves.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMMouthDepth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs (also "push", "val" (for bone adjustment, I presume) are the same)
PHMMouthHeight - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs (also "push", "val" (for bone adjustment, I presume) are the same)
*PHMMouthSize.dsf - the different delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
*PHMMouthWidth.dsf - the different delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNoseBridgeDepth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNoseBridgeHeight.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNoseBridgeSkew.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNoseBridgeSlope.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNoseBridgeWidth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNoseBump.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNoseDepth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNoseFleshSizeL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNoseFleshSizeR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNoseHeight.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNosePinch.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNoseRidge.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNoseRidgeWidth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNoseSeptumDepth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNoseSeptumHeight.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNoseSeptumWidth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNoseSide-Side.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNoseSize.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNoseSkew.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNoseTipDepth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNoseTipHeight.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNoseTipRound.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNoseTipWidth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNoseTwist.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNoseWidth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNostrilsDepth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNostrilsFleshSize.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNostrilsHeightL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNostrilsHeightR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNostrilsWidthL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMNostrilsWidthR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMPhiltrumAngle.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMPhiltrumDepth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMPhiltrumWidth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMPupilsDialate.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMPupilsSlit.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMTeethBottomSize.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMTeethGap.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMTeethIrregular.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMTeethTopSize.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMTemplesDefineL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMTemplesDefineR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
Total 9 out of 162 tested morphs (5.56%) in G2F and G2M face morph packs have unique deltas, the rest of deltas are the same for G2M and G2F version. The rest are 32 files in the package are CTRL files, which I didn't compare.
All tested morphs have the same names, there were no unique morphs (with deltas) in any of G2F or G2M Head Morphs packages.
G2M and G2F Body Morphs (regular price of each morphpack: $19.95)
Unique morphs for each pack that don't have counterparts in an opposite pack and therefore can't be tested:
- G2F Bodymorphs:
CTRLBreastsImplants.dsf
CTRLBreastsNatural.dsf
FBMPearFigure.dsf
FBMVoluptuous.dsf
MCMFBMPearFigureFwd.dsf
MCMPBMPregnantFwd.dsf
PBMAreolaePerk.dsf
PBMBreastsCleavage.dsf
PBMBreastsDiameter.dsf
PBMBreastsDownwardSlope.dsf
PBMBreastsGone.dsf
PBMBreastsHeavy.dsf
PBMBreastsImplantsL.dsf
PBMBreastsImplantsR.dsf
PBMBreastsNaturalL.dsf
PBMBreastsNaturalR.dsf
PBMBreastsPerkSide.dsf
PBMBreastsShape01.dsf
PBMBreastsShape02.dsf
PBMBreastsShape03.dsf
PBMBreastsShape04.dsf
PBMBreastsShape05.dsf
PBMBreastsShape06.dsf
PBMBreastsShape07.dsf
PBMBreastsShape08.dsf
PBMBreastsSmall.dsf
PBMBreastsUnderCurve.dsf
PBMBreastsUpwardSlope.dsf
PBMPregnant.dsf
- G2MBodymorphs:
FBMPortly.dsf
FBMStocky.dsf
MCMFBMPortlyFwd.dsf
PBMAdamsApple.dsf
PBMGenitalBulge1.dsf
PBMGenitalBulge2.dsf
PBMKnucklesSize.dsf
PBMPectoralsCleavage.dsf
PBMPectoralsDiameter.dsf
PBMPectoralsHeavy.dsf
PBMPectoralsHeight.dsf
PBMPectoralsHeightOuter.dsf
PBMPectoralsSag.dsf
PBMPectoralsUnderCurve.dsf
For the rest of morphs with deltas, the results are following:
*FBMAndrogynous.dsf - the different delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
*FBMBodybuilderDetails.dsf - the different delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
*FBMBodybuilderSize.dsf - the different delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
*FBMBodySize.dsf - the different delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
FBMBodyTone.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
*FBMEmaciated.dsf - the different delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
FBMFitnessDetails.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
FBMFitnessSize.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
*FBMHeavy.dsf - the different delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
FBMHeight.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
FBMThin.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
*MCMFBMHeavyFwd.dsf - the different delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMAreolaeDepth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMAreolaeDiameter.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMCalvesSize.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
*PBMCollarboneDetail.dsf - the different delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMCostalAngleArched.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMCostalAnglePointed.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMFeetArch.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMFeetThickness.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMFootLengthL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs(lines "op" : "push", "val" have the same values as well)
PBMFootLengthR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs(lines "op" : "push", "val" have the same values as well)
PBMForearmsSize.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMGluteCreaseL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMGluteCreaseR.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMGlutesLowerDepth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMGlutesSize.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMGlutesUpperDepth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMGlutesWidth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMHandsThickness.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMHipBoneCrest.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMHipBoneSize.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMHipSize.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMIliacLine.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMKneeBonesSize.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMLatsSize.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMLegsLength.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs(lines "op" : "push", "val" have the same values as well)
PBMLineaAlbaDepth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMLoveHandles.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMNailsLength.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMNavelDepth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMNavelHorizontal.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMNavelOut.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMNavelSize.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMNavelVertical.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMNeckSize.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMNipplesDepth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
*PBMNipplesDiameter.dsf - the different delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMNipplesLarge.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMNipplesSize.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMRectusOuterDetail.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
*PBMRectusWidth.dsf - the different delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMRibcageSize.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMSacralDimples.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
*PBMScapulaDepth.dsf - the different delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMScapulaSize.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMShinsSize.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMShouldersSize.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMSternumDepth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
*PBMSternumHeight.dsf - the different delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
*PBMSternumWidth.dsf - the different delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMStomachDepth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMStomachLowerDepth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
*PBMStomachSoften.dsf - the different delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
*PBMThighsSize.dsf - the different delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMThighsTone.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMTrapsSize.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMUpperArmsSize.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMWaistWidth.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PBMWristSize.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
Total of 15 morphs out of, I believe, 71 tested morphs with deltas have different deltas (about 21.13%).
Rest 21 morph are CTRL and SCL morphs that I didn't compare.
Out of curiousity, I've also tested in similar way some morphs that came with G2F and G2M Essentials.
Visems (I think this is what they are):
VSMAA.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
VSMEH.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
VSMER.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
*VSMF.dsf - the different delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
VSMIH.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
VSMIY.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
VSMK.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
VSML.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
VSMM.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
VSMOW.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
VSMS.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
VSMSH.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
VSMT.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
VSMTH.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
VSMUW.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
VSMW.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
1 morph out of 17 morphs (5.88%) has different deltas.
Even some expressions that come with essentials have the same deltas althouth I didn't fully tested that part of about 114 morphs:
PHMFear.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
PHMFlirtingFeminineL.dsf - the same delta in both G2M and G2F packs.
Summary: I'm finding that the majority of morphs in both head and body packs for both figures have the same deltas. Of course, morph appearance and functionality in TriaX figures isn't strictly tied to deltas only, like it was in Generation 4, and although a lot of morphs I tested function without any scale, control or alias connections I could discover, not all of them do (some morphs have same deltas but slightly different rigging adjustments, for example).
Comments and questions are welcome but please be aware that this is a thread FOR SCIENCE, i.e. tests, sharing of knowledge and learning, not for heated debates. Although you can discuss Thermal physics, if you are so inclined. Thermal physics are ok.
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Just as an added note, I've tested a direct carry-over of some unique-delta FBMs (in this context: morphs with same names but with different deltas, not entirely unique for each figures) from G2F to G2M. I chose Heavy and Androgynous because they both have different deltas but also other-figure counterparts. Method used was manual editing of all paths and references from pointing to G2F to pointing to G2M in Bred3.
The result is not the same as with rest of the morphs on the list that have the same delta, with G2M having much more pronounced feminine shape with Heavy and distorted pectorals with Androgynous. For morphs with unique G2F deltas I therefore can assume that direct carry-over to G2M will not work satisfactory, so about 5.5% of face morphs and a bit more than 20% of body morphs can't replicated by carry-over to G2M.
Wow, impressive work!
I tried to find some logic in the differences, such as in the breast area I expected a lot of differences.
In the end I was unble to find logic in as to why certain delta's are different from eachother.
But I have litlle knowledge of this kind of data, so in the end my oppinion is pretty meaningless.
Definitely impressive. As an FYI, on a Mac, you can do a recursive "diff" which would be a time saver.
Well, all breast morphs in G2F are actually unique, as well as pectoral morphs in G2M, so I didn't even compare those, as they have no other-gender counterpart (and therefore specified as unique in a separate listing). Coincidentally, there is 8 of breast morphs in G2F (named BreastsShape01 to BreastsShape08) as there was 8 morphs in V5 (named V5 BreastsShape 1 to V5 BreastsShape 8). I didn't make any comparison here, as I'm sure that delta will be different, with this being two different meshes, but I wonder if side by side appearance comparison (i.e. renders of dialed morphs) will give any interesting results. I'm a baffled, though, why deltas for full-body morphs Thin and FitnessDetails are the same on male and female figure while Heavy and Androgynous aren't.
Any ideas?
Thanks :)
But I'm on PC @_@
My guess? They simply copied morphs from G2F to G2M and remade the ones that didn't look acceptable. Androgynous probably reduces breasts on the female and therefore wouldn't work on the male, and so forth.
Just guessing though, I haven't used either G2 figure yet.
Just a thought but has anyone tried using the G2F deltas for G2M or use the G2M for G2F to see if the results would be identical or not?
Has anyone ever really looked at the original Genesis Evolution head an body morphs? Do they contain any morphs that are unique to the male or female?
The base morphs would be the same, but there were tons of correctives added in for V5 and M5 to make them gender specific. So you could set a dial for a particular shape, and it would activate the base evolution shape plus the corrective, but it just looked like one dial to the end user.
Deltas notate the pixel offset from a base shape, so if you have the same delta and two different base shapes, the end result will look different once the morph is calculated. That said, putting one file on a different shape will not look the same in all instances, and may look downright weird. Because it's already noted by DAZ that the male and female shapes are the same with gender-specific differences, simply copying delta files over will not give you the same result for everything.
That's why there's two morph products where the delta are calculated from those base shapes. Deltas may be the same in some instances, but the results may be quite different.
I'm adding this to the convo so people (especially new or less technically savvy users) don't get misled into thinking they can simply copy everything over and get the same result in order to save a few dollars or that DAZ is trying to be greedy by offering the same thing twice... both of which is not true, which some may lead you to believe. The base figures were created to aid in gender-specific characters and aid content developers with creation of content that was difficult to envision and create with a gender neutral model that some developers refused to touch. This has worked out pretty well as you seen more vendors and PA create items for Gen2 that were more inline with Gen4 content rather than unisex clothing that pretty much dominated Gen1.
The discussion of deltas does not change this.
Thanks for that :)
Delta? Isn't that an airline company? I never heard of delta morphs. Are they like injections or something? Please define delta for this 3D newbie.
Ugg.. smilies don't load in Firefox. I think there is a script blocking the code.
Deltas notate the pixel offset from a base shape, so if you have the same delta and two different base shapes, the end result will look different once the morph is calculated. That said, putting one file on a different shape will not look the same in all instances, and may look downright weird. Because it's already noted by DAZ that the male and female shapes are the same with gender-specific differences, simply copying delta files over will not give you the same result for everything.
That's why there's two morph products where the delta are calculated from those base shapes. Deltas may be the same in some instances, but the results may be quite different.
I'm adding this to the convo so people (especially new or less technically savvy users) don't get misled into thinking they can simply copy everything over and get the same result in order to save a few dollars or that DAZ is trying to be greedy by offering the same thing twice... both of which is not true, which some may lead you to believe. The base figures were created to aid in gender-specific characters and aid content developers with creation of content that was difficult to envision and create with a gender neutral model that some developers refused to touch. This has worked out pretty well as you seen more vendors and PA create items for Gen2 that were more inline with Gen4 content rather than unisex clothing that pretty much dominated Gen1.
The discussion of deltas does not change this.
Thank you for the information. I wasn't sure in the case of the original Genesis. I wondered if the more specific gender characteristics we saw in the fifth generation morph packs came from them or if I was missing something in the original Evolution morph packs. I realize the base Genesis male and female were just that but often times they were just too androgynous without more gender specific morph packs like V5 and M5.
Greetings,
Essentially delta is shortcut for 'a measure of the changes between things'.
So morphs are, under the hood, a set of changes (via numbers) applied to the underlying model. You can compare the same-named morph between two models and see how the morphs differ to support the different models.
-- Morgan
Actually no, this isn't quite right.
Just as a test I carried over one of G2F morphs with same delta as G2M, that doesn't have any controlling (CTRL) parameters or rigging adjustments, - Elf Ear morph.
Carried over morph only changes were edited paths to point from G2F to G2M. There are no other morphs or helpers to influence the appearance of this morph, neither in G2F not in G2M, as far as I can tell.
Here are picture of G2F carried over morph on G2M and G2M native Elf Ears morph. Pictures are rendered with orthogonal camera to avoid rendering distortion.
Can anybody guess which one is where?
Second picture is made of same heads superimposed in Photoshop and set to 'Difference' mode.
Surely some morphs have CTRL helpers (and I intent to look how much those are different) but at least for morphs that don't have those helpers, same delta from G2F Head pack carried over to G2M gives very much the same appearance as a morph Elf Ears from G2M Head Pack. So at least some morphs seem to be fully capable to be carried over.
Yes, I did, but so far only for some morphs that don't have any rigging adjustments in them. Results for morphs with same deltas look either extremely close, or the same to G2M head morphpack - I didn't yet check if related CTRL files have any noticeable effect on bends and jaw opening, for example, but on default pose to my eye morphs look about same, without visible distortions. I haven't check all morphs with same deltas, though, just some but so far results were consistent.
Morphs with different deltas, unlike morphs with same deltas, are distorted when carried over from G2F to G2M, as Heavy and Androgynous can show.
The example of full body morph with the same deltas (FBMThin) carried over from G2F to G2M and compared to G2M native Thin morph. Orthogonal cameras, again to avoid rendering distortions. Same materials (legs have slightly different tint because I my only change in materials was to select all surfaces, put Diffuse to pure white and eliminate texture maps). One simple light.
Neither of those two morphs have any native bone adjustments, only paths and deltas, so the only editing in carried over G2F Thin morph was change of paths from G2F to G2M and adding _F at the end of name of G2F carried over Thin morph to distinguish them in the Parameters tab. I also didn't find any additional controlling morphs for FBMThin, except of CTRL Weight which dials Heavy from 0 to 1 and Thin from -1 to 0, so they seem to pose the same.
You can quite easily test this morph for yourself.
Actually no, this isn't quite right.
Just as a test I carried over one of G2F morphs with same delta as G2M, that doesn't have any controlling (CTRL) parameters or rigging adjustments, - Elf Ear morph.
Carried over morph only changes were edited paths to point from G2F to G2M. There are no other morphs or helpers to influence the appearance of this morph, neither in G2F not in G2M, as far as I can tell.
Here are picture of G2F carried over morph on G2M and G2M native Elf Ears morph. Pictures are rendered with orthogonal camera to avoid rendering distortion.
Can anybody guess which one is where?
Second picture is made of same heads superimposed in Photoshop and set to 'Difference' mode.
Surely some morphs have CTRL helpers (and I intent to look how much those are different) but at least for morphs that don't have those helpers, same delta from G2F Head pack carried over to G2M gives very much the same appearance as a morph Elf Ears from G2M Head Pack. So at least some morphs seem to be fully capable to be carried over.
I think I was quite right. I don't anything in your post disproves that. I did say that the mesh was identical between the meshes except for gender-specific parts; so an ear can easily be copied. You want this as if you want to make a character or different species having the head more exact would be necessary. However once you get into the body, that's where a good portion of differences are.
However as you aren't able to 100 copy everything over due specific rigging my comment about just dropping over morphs still is valid.
I actually just did, above with FBM Thin, carried over from G2F to G2M and compared to FBM Thin from G2M Body morphpack and I don't see any differences. FBM Thin has same deltas in both G2F and G2M morphs, has no rigging adjustments on both G2F and G2M morphs and has no influential control morph I can find.
Then I assume you see the slight distortions in the chest, hip and thigh area. You can't recommend this as a solution to the masses.
I can - for people who know what they are doing, attentive to details and also willing to go through 210+ morphs with text editor in a quite long process of relinking files, as I don't personally see the any distortions on those two morphs. Even if you have batch text editor like Ecobyte Replace Text it will take a while, - and there are also morphs that will require extra care. So the majority will probably value convenience more as bundle morphpack is like $13-14 for PC people on sale which isn't that horribly much and they aren't looking to spend a whole weekend on a hot romantic date with a text editor with way too many numbers and repetitive 'Double IDs" error :p
I saw people having troubles with decompression of compressed morphs with unzip and 3 step instruction, so I hope there is no fear that this little discovery will cause untold woes to any financial department. I highly suspect (purely empirically) that in whole DAZ3D userbase there is less than 5% people who are willing to go through relinking and transferrals of 210+ morphs instead of paying for convenience.
But would you like closeups and superposition of pictures for me to post of possible problematic areas (chests, hips, etc)? If you have any specific criteria for close-up test and superposition (lights, materials, Photoshop procedure, etc) please list them and I'll try to follow them as well as I can.
But I also fully believe that there can't be any distortions in Thin morph because deltas - the difference between base shape and morphed shape - are the same in both G2F carry over morph and G2M native morph and in this case the base shape is the same too (G2M in both cases). Mathematically, If you have the same starting point, and the same deltas you have the same ending point (a + dx = b, where a - starting point (G2M shape), dx - deltas (same in G2F and G2M case) and b - the result). With no rigging or other adjustments to influence the bends and weighmaps in the morphs themselves, or in helper morphs connected to Thin morphs in either G2F or G2M morph, like in this case, I don't see how they can be different as the only rigging, weightmaps and controls that affect both carry over and native Thin morphs are those from G2M native rigging, and both morphs are affected in shaping and posing by them in the same degree.
It will be nicer to have a wireframe render at base base resolution to compare. I do wonder though whether those distortions will be carried over to the clothes as well? I'm guessing they will be and then things will be quite messy.
I can only show wireframe screenshot as there is no wireframe rendering options in DS I know about but there are no distortions in these areas.
Clothes used: default G2M surfer tank top and Adventurer's pants (the most form-fitting I have). Orthogonal cameras in both cases. Same material shader. One is carried over G2F Thin morph (the conditions the same as above), the other one is native G2M Thin morph. Both G2Ms are on Base Resolution, Zero Subdivision.
Last picture is a more of Adventure (Tunic, Vest, Belt) over both G2Ms, more drastically bent pose.
Poses are same, standard G2M poses, with limits turned off. Would you like to see any other poses or close-ups?
There cannot be distortions, for Thin morph, at least. If base is the same (which it is, G2M in both cases) and deltas are the same (which they are by the test) the resulting shape base + deltas = is the same.
If shape is the same, the potential distortion could have come from control helpers (CTRL and scale properties tied to either FBMThin) but there are none of those. The only file from all folders that is connected to FBMThin in either figure is CTRLWeight but CTRL Weight doesn't affect anything of that kind (it only dials Heavy from 0 to 1 and Thin from -1 to 0). So controllers don't affect either morph in any degree.
The other source of possible distortion could have been rigging adjustment and ERC freeze links saved within morphs - but neither morphs have anything like that, they have only paths, property blocks (labels, visibility, things you find in Parameters options) and blocks of deltas, and nothing that affects bends or weightmaps.
So the only things that affects both those morphs is the native G2M weightmaps and rigging but it affects them both equally. With the same shape and the same influence upon them both carried over G2F and native G2M morphs are behaving the same way as it can be seen from pictures.
With other morphs - yes, there can be some difference because they might have additional influential controls, embedded rigging adjustments and so on. But this test was done to show that if the delta is the same in both G2F and G2M morphs, and there is no other influence like embedded rigging adjustments or control morphs, carried over morph behaves exactly the same as G2M native morph, with no distortions from G2F shape. I'm yet to find out (but this is in process) how much morphs with same deltas have same rigging adjustments and controller influence.
Which is which?
You tell me. I'm not labeling them so not to give people a confirmation bias. And if you can't tell, is there a difference? If you have Photoshop or another image editor you can superimpose one part over another part and see how much they overlap and how. Renders and screenshots are taken with orthogonal cameras (front, side, back) so there is no camera distortion. I can provide pngs if needed. If you want to replicate the test on your own I can provide the steps although they'd require to decompress morphs (it is just unzipping), and editing of paths and labels (but nothing else) in carried over morph, so both G2F morph will be applied to G2M and will be dialable in G2M figure.
Edited: hey, it is my 2501 post, and I'm officially 'Addict' @_O
I did try with GIMP. There are some differences, but unfortunately, due to the image resolution, the differences are about 1/2 pixels. Bascially, the knees position is slightly different between the two.
What image resolution would you like? I can't make screenshots bigger than 1920x1080, I think, because the screen is this way, but I can render any big picture.
I've made them as 1270x926 with attention to problematic areas. I also saved as png to avoid artifacts from jpg compression. Sadly forum software doesn't allow to add tiffs. Pictures are automatically compressed by forum software but you can click and on popups there should be non-compressed version.
Well, you can zoom in close on each body part at that resolution. Male-M3dia did pointed out some other areas.
Well, you can zoom in close on each body part at that resolution. Male-M3dia did pointed out some other areas.
Already did for knees above. As addition I colorized one part yellow and another part blue in Photoshop, then overlayed them (in Multiply mode, 50% opacity on the top one so the lower one will show through better). Here are results.
I'll do hips and chest, then, as thighs are already on pictures above. Would you like a zero pose or posed pose?
Chest and hips. I used the same pose because this is a pose with most bends in this area out of standard G2M poses I have. Front, Right, Left, Back view. Same conditions as above.
Still not close enough.
I used one of your comparison images as a backdrop, placed G2M with his native Thin morph on each model trying to line him up exactly. You'll see some differences between the colored shape (G2M) and the background (your image being lower res have a more blurred silhouette). The differences are minute, but there are there even on zeroed/default T pose.