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Michael and Victoria 6 HD Add-ons Now Availalbe

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  • Coon RaCoon Ra Posts: 200
    edited November 2013

    DAZ_jared said:
    Xenomorphine said:
    Damn it, now I might have to upgrade to Genesis 2 morphs and textures... So much money!

    Does anyone know what the difference is between that and this?

    http://www.daz3d.com/displacement-for-victoria-6

    It seems to give a similar HD appearance.

    Also, are V6/M6 necessary for this or can it simply work with the Genesis 2 base figures? And can it be combined with the recent HD creature creator?

    One creates details using displacement maps, the other creates the details using HD morphs. Creating details using morphs rather than displacement maps offers several advantages one of the biggest being that the morph is UV independent, so it doesn't matter what UV set you are using you can still get the HD details.

    Displacement maps are limited to movement along a polygon normal, while HD morphs are not.
    In case of pure DS UV map set may be important but a lot of other renders handle different uv sets for different maps for the same mesh, i.e. for example diffuse maps may use V6 uv, bump or displacement - Gia ones. To me setting new materials (including copypasting accompanying FB morph's uv to extra uv map) and lights in modo is much faster than woo-doo-ing DS lights and shaders. And then I can send the scene to Thea or Octane to get faster render speed.
    Or rebake displacement map to differnt UV set. I just find buying every bit-n-piece of slight improvements VERY pricy.

    Post edited by Coon Ra on
  • LeanderLeander Posts: 56
    edited December 1969

    Luci45 said:
    Here is M6 HD with the new Bjorn texture. Render time is really slow, SSS doesn't help. I would only use these for portraits or they would kill my computer too. But very nice. i haven't played with V6 HD yet. Looks OK with M4 morph mixed in too.

    Luci, that's a beautiful render. Would you mind telling me what lights (and background?) you used for it?

  • BarubaryBarubary Posts: 1,216
    edited December 1969

    So, we're using HD morphs instead of normal maps now? Or are they even moar, moar betterer than what we could get with V6's normal maps?

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 7,096
    edited November 2013

    Hd morphs compliment normals, and other texture based details, not really replace them. It enhances the mesh detail, which works with the detail provided in the skin. When combined, gives you even better results than before.

    Post edited by Zev0 on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited November 2013

    DAZ_jared said:

    -See your details updated in real time (Viewport subdivision must be turned on).

    In the above it says 'Viewport subdivision must be turned on.'. How do you do it!? I'm struggling to find where you check this and adjust it if it isn't turned on.

    CHEERS!

    Post edited by Rogerbee on
  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 7,096
    edited December 1969

    Here. It just needs to be on one in order to use HD. One is default, but for some reason the new G2F essentials sets it to 0 in a new figure loaded in scene. Just make sure its set to one and you are all set.

    subd.jpg
    556 x 366 - 82K
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Gotcha, LOL!

    I was looking for something in the preferences! I'll have a play when I eventually get the HD morphs.

    CHEERS!

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,581
    edited November 2013

    Rogerbee said:

    Gotcha, LOL!

    I was looking for something in the preferences! I'll have a play when I eventually get the HD morphs.

    CHEERS!

    Keep in mind that you'll need a pretty decent video card and system to view HD morphs in realtime. If you don't you'll bring your computer to a crawl or lock your system.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Everything on the required list is supported by it, so, I'll take my chances.

    I'll only use it for the odd portrait so hopefully it won't fry too much. DS has been running pretty smoothly up until now....

    CHEERS!

  • DkgooseDkgoose Posts: 1,451
    edited December 1969

    so, you don't need to have the subdivision level set to 3 in Studio for it to show the HD?, because it makes everything really laggy and the highest it goes will go without going to the settings is 2

  • scorpioscorpio Posts: 8,471
    edited December 1969

    Slosh said:
    I decided to try both HD figures, with their Elite textures "out of the box". I didn't change any material settings except to reduce SSS to 50%, as is my preference. I also used AoA's Advanced Ambient light and transmapped hair. Rendering closer portraits always takes a bit longer than distance shots. I wanted to really test the render time by throwing a lot at it (2 figures?). Total render time on this was 1 hr 19 mins. Not too bad, really. Next time, I would do more tweaking on the materials, especially V6 lips, which are a bit too specular in this render. I would also brighten up M6 a bit.

    Would you mind giving your Render settings and Computer specs, thanks

  • Kevin RyeKevin Rye Posts: 392
    edited December 1969

    I was dying all day yesterday to get home and try out some M6 and V6 HD renders. I got wrapped up in a bunch of other stuff and it just got too late to get into anything by the time I was able to sit down. Hopefully tonight I can play around with it, but with Thanksgiving being tomorrow, I have a feeling my wife is going to hand me a list of crap to do when I walk in the door.

  • peteVaultpeteVault Posts: 308
    edited December 1969

    ryemac3 said:
    I was dying all day yesterday to get home and try out some M6 and V6 HD renders. I got wrapped up in a bunch of other stuff and it just got too late to get into anything by the time I was able to sit down. Hopefully tonight I can play around with it, but with Thanksgiving being tomorrow, I have a feeling my wife is going to hand me a list of crap to do when I walk in the door.

    Yeah...the old "Honey Dew" list...wretched.

  • RiggswolfeRiggswolfe Posts: 906
    edited December 1969

    Richard Haseltine said:
    HeraldOfFire said:
    JOdel said:
    What does it do to the poly count? I remember that V4/M4 were about 68,000 polys and I could never get more than about 4 human figures into a scene and be able to render it.

    It's been stated that Gen2 is some 22,000 polys, standard. What are they in HD?

    ETA: I am assuming that these can use whatever textures have been converted to gen5 .duf. That they do not need special HD textures.


    I'm not entirely sure what level of subdivision the HD figures use. By default it loads with a visual appearance set at SubD 1, which is the same as standard Victoria/Michael 6 resulting in 85,253 quads. Obviously, the total number of polygons will change depending on the level of subdivision used. SubD level 2 gives 339,432 quads and SubD 3 gives 1.34 million quads.

    My guess is it uses subD at level 2 or so, but I don't really have an easy way to test this.

    The HD morphs were created at level 3 - hence 64 times the detail (and polygon count, if you turn the preview level up that far). IN DS the SubD level setting is viewport only, it doesn't affect renders which are always taken to the limit state in effect; in Poser the SubD level does govern the render.

    Am i understanding this right? Subd in renders is always on and the subd parameter only affects the viewport? If so how do you check the subd setting for your renders?

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,581
    edited November 2013

    dkgoose said:
    so, you don't need to have the subdivision level set to 3 in Studio for it to show the HD?, because it makes everything really laggy and the highest it goes will go without going to the settings is 2

    Am i understanding this right? Subd in renders is always on and the subd parameter only affects the viewport? If so how do you check the subd setting for your renders?

    You don't have to do anything with the subdivision level in DS to get the HD to render. The details are added in at render time which is one of the advantages, rather than having to manually set it up and potentially lock up your computer if your specs aren't high enough.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • RiggswolfeRiggswolfe Posts: 906
    edited December 1969

    Male-M3dia said:
    dkgoose said:
    so, you don't need to have the subdivision level set to 3 in Studio for it to show the HD?, because it makes everything really laggy and the highest it goes will go without going to the settings is 2

    Am i understanding this right? Subd in renders is always on and the subd parameter only affects the viewport? If so how do you check the subd setting for your renders?

    You don't have to do anything with the subdivision level in DS to get the HD to render. The details are added in at render time which is one of the advantages, rather than having to manually set it up and potentially lock up your computer if your specs aren't high enough.

    Interesting. What about for SubD 2 if you're doing non-HD?

  • CypherFOXCypherFOX Posts: 3,401
    edited November 2013

    Greetings,

    Male-M3dia said:
    You don't have to do anything with the subdivision level in DS to get the HD to render. The details are added in at render time which is one of the advantages, rather than having to manually set it up and potentially lock up your computer if your specs aren't high enough.So...this is off-topic, but this has been something that's confused me.

    I've had circumstances where light doesn't hit a character right...it seems to have a jagged line down their face or leg (most common), or something, and I'll go to the Parameters tab, set the subdivision to 2 (from 1) and re-render, and it'll seem to...smooth out the character enough that the lighting doesn't look all jagged anymore.

    So I've been a little confused by the conversation here saying that DS already 'turns on' the subdivision, and that setting is view-only, because historically that's not been my experience. Is it just the HD morphs that enable it, or am I missing something else that's going on?

    Edit: Yes, this..exactly.
    Interesting. What about for SubD 2 if you're doing non-HD?

    -- Morgan

    Post edited by CypherFOX on
  • XenomorphineXenomorphine Posts: 2,421
    edited November 2013

    DAZ_jared said:
    Xenomorphine said:
    Damn it, now I might have to upgrade to Genesis 2 morphs and textures... So much money!

    Does anyone know what the difference is between that and this?

    http://www.daz3d.com/displacement-for-victoria-6

    It seems to give a similar HD appearance.

    Also, are V6/M6 necessary for this or can it simply work with the Genesis 2 base figures? And can it be combined with the recent HD creature creator?

    One creates details using displacement maps, the other creates the details using HD morphs. Creating details using morphs rather than displacement maps offers several advantages one of the biggest being that the morph is UV independent, so it doesn't matter what UV set you are using you can still get the HD details.

    Displacement maps are limited to movement along a polygon normal, while HD morphs are not.

    Bit of a layman here, so you'll have to excuse me. :) But would I be right in thinking they both give the same end result, but that if you get one, it essentially cancels the other out? Or that they could be combined together for some kind of ultra-HD, photo-realistic look?

    And if you used them on a non-V6/M6 G2 figure, like the base model or something made with the creature creator, they'd make taht look HD-quality? Or is it meant purely for the human V6/M6 appearance?

    Post edited by Xenomorphine on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,436
    edited November 2013

    I'm not sure why the viewport SubD level would affect the render quality - it shouldn't, by my understanding. If I can find the image I have a comparison of three cubes with different levels of SubD in the viewport and rendered - the renders are identical( to my eye, as I recall).

    3cubes.JPG
    976 x 749 - 49K
    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,436
    edited December 1969

    Xenomorphine said:
    DAZ_jared said:
    Xenomorphine said:
    Damn it, now I might have to upgrade to Genesis 2 morphs and textures... So much money!

    Does anyone know what the difference is between that and this?

    http://www.daz3d.com/displacement-for-victoria-6

    It seems to give a similar HD appearance.

    Also, are V6/M6 necessary for this or can it simply work with the Genesis 2 base figures? And can it be combined with the recent HD creature creator?

    One creates details using displacement maps, the other creates the details using HD morphs. Creating details using morphs rather than displacement maps offers several advantages one of the biggest being that the morph is UV independent, so it doesn't matter what UV set you are using you can still get the HD details.

    Displacement maps are limited to movement along a polygon normal, while HD morphs are not.

    Bit of a layman here, so you'll have to excuse me. :) But would I be right in thinking they both give the same end result, but that if you get one, it essentially cancels the other out? Or that they could be combined together for some kind of ultra-HD, photo-realistic look?

    And if you used them on a non-V6/M6 G2 figure, like the base model or something made with the creature creator, they'd make taht look HD-quality? Or is it meant purely for the human V6/M6 appearance?

    Displacement will move the mesh, and HD morphs will move the mesh. How good they look together will depend on their effect - if they both make the same kind of change the result will probably end up as a mess, if they have very different kinds of effect they may work together. However, any displacement map is almost certainly going to be created from the non-HD morph shape, either the base shape or a morph, so I would expect odd results if the displacement was generating fine detail on top of fine detail from the morph - but odd can be effective.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,775
    edited December 1969

    Richard Haseltine said:
    I'm not sure why the viewport SubD level would affect the render quality - it shouldn't, by my understanding. If I can find the image I have a comparison of three cubes with different levels of SubD in the viewport and rendered - the renders are identical( to my eye, as I recall).

    I just tried a similar experiment with a primitive sphere. When first loaded, subdivision is not active. That rendered all "lumpy". When I added subdivision with the edit/geometry menu, the renders were identical no matter what subdivision level I selected in the UI. All spheres rendered very round and smooth. So, my results on primitives matched Richard's results.
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    It'd be interesting to see a side by side comparison of a figure with and without subdivision and with and without HD. I know there are the promo ones, but, I'd quite like to see what someone who has bought them can do.

    Seeing the dials for each would be interesting too

    CHEERS!

  • RiggswolfeRiggswolfe Posts: 906
    edited December 1969

    barbult said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    I'm not sure why the viewport SubD level would affect the render quality - it shouldn't, by my understanding. If I can find the image I have a comparison of three cubes with different levels of SubD in the viewport and rendered - the renders are identical( to my eye, as I recall).

    I just tried a similar experiment with a primitive sphere. When first loaded, subdivision is not active. That rendered all "lumpy". When I added subdivision with the edit/geometry menu, the renders were identical no matter what subdivision level I selected in the UI. All spheres rendered very round and smooth. So, my results on primitives matched Richard's results.

    So, you actually set SubD in the edit->geometry tab and NOT in the parameters tab? I thought I've been rendering my figures at SubD 2 all this time and I haven't?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,436
    edited December 1969

    Riggswolfe said:
    barbult said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    I'm not sure why the viewport SubD level would affect the render quality - it shouldn't, by my understanding. If I can find the image I have a comparison of three cubes with different levels of SubD in the viewport and rendered - the renders are identical( to my eye, as I recall).

    I just tried a similar experiment with a primitive sphere. When first loaded, subdivision is not active. That rendered all "lumpy". When I added subdivision with the edit/geometry menu, the renders were identical no matter what subdivision level I selected in the UI. All spheres rendered very round and smooth. So, my results on primitives matched Richard's results.

    So, you actually set SubD in the edit->geometry tab and NOT in the parameters tab? I thought I've been rendering my figures at SubD 2 all this time and I haven't?

    If the figure is already a SubD mesh you adjust it from Parameters, but if it isn't (as with a newly created primitive) you have to convert to SubD first, through the Edit menu command.

  • RiggswolfeRiggswolfe Posts: 906
    edited December 1969

    Richard Haseltine said:
    Riggswolfe said:
    barbult said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    I'm not sure why the viewport SubD level would affect the render quality - it shouldn't, by my understanding. If I can find the image I have a comparison of three cubes with different levels of SubD in the viewport and rendered - the renders are identical( to my eye, as I recall).

    I just tried a similar experiment with a primitive sphere. When first loaded, subdivision is not active. That rendered all "lumpy". When I added subdivision with the edit/geometry menu, the renders were identical no matter what subdivision level I selected in the UI. All spheres rendered very round and smooth. So, my results on primitives matched Richard's results.

    So, you actually set SubD in the edit->geometry tab and NOT in the parameters tab? I thought I've been rendering my figures at SubD 2 all this time and I haven't?

    If the figure is already a SubD mesh you adjust it from Parameters, but if it isn't (as with a newly created primitive) you have to convert to SubD first, through the Edit menu command.

    Ok. Now I understand. :)

  • CypherFOXCypherFOX Posts: 3,401
    edited November 2013

    Greetings,

    Rogerbee said:

    It'd be interesting to see a side by side comparison of a figure with and without subdivision and with and without HD. I know there are the promo ones, but, I'd quite like to see what someone who has bought them can do.

    Seeing the dials for each would be interesting too

    CHEERS!

    I did the 'with and without' HD morphs in the Dan thread.

    I'm definitely confused about the subdivision thing, because I've seen a difference in my renders between setting the Parameters entry for subdivision. In fact, because of that, I always go set the subdivision to 2 before rendering when doing my final renders.

    Now it's possible that it may have been in DS4.0, or it may have been the figure being accidentally set to 'Base' resolution instead of high resolution and I fixed that as part of setting the subdivision, so I have to dig in and figure out what it was. Hopefully I still have the scene file where I best remember the lighting issue upsetting me...

    OH! Hey, would it make a difference if it's 3Delight or Reality/LuxRender that's doing the rendering? Would I have to set the subD Parameters entry if it's being sent off to Reality?

    -- Morgan

    Post edited by CypherFOX on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,436
    edited December 1969

    It would certainly make a difference, I can't recall how Reality handled SubD (I'm pretty sure LuxRender does support it).

  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,029
    edited December 1969

    I love the HD morphs. My only gripe with it is that it's one morph/dial. I'd love to have separate controls for some of the details. Haven't tried the M6 version yet, but on G2F using the HD morphs cause some problems with the underside of the breasts. Tinkering the breast under curve dial can mitigate that.

    About SubD, don't the resolution used (Base or HIgh Res) also play a part when rendering? If I understand correctly, Base disregards SubD. Or put it in another way, you need to use High Res for the mesh to render with SubD.

  • DustRiderDustRider Posts: 2,788
    edited November 2013

    Has anyone tried these with Reality/Lux and/or the DS plugin for Octane? If they work with both of these, it would be a fantastic addition.

    Edit: I forgot to add Luxus to the list.

    Post edited by DustRider on
  • Coon RaCoon Ra Posts: 200
    edited December 1969

    Zev0 said:
    Hd morphs compliment normals, and other texture based details, not really replace them. It enhances the mesh detail, which works with the detail provided in the skin. When combined, gives you even better results than before.

    To me, better results of HD human body morphs are noticeable only on big closeups. When compared with SD based picture right next to HD one.
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