Medieval Lands to 3DL?
Sven Dullah
Posts: 7,621
in The Commons
https://www.daz3d.com/medieval-lands
Has anyone succesfully converted this environment to 3delight? Or someone who owns it, could you please tell me if there are a lot of custom MDL shaders involved? Most worried about the ground, I've bought a few sets that wouldn't simply convert without a LOT of fuzz. Thought I'd ask over here before closing the deal;)
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I bought this set when it was released it comes as iray only . but was able to successfully convert it to 3delight and still make it look as good as iray so i could use it in animation.
this was using ue2 light dome with glasseye poser skydome rendered in 3dl
I actually think that looks better Ivy
I think being able to use a skydome with this set in 3dl really makes the scene look better as well I have not had much luck trying to get poser skydomes to look right using iray and when you add a 4k or better hdri to this set it really comes to a crawl that was one of the reasons i converted it to 3dl and saved it as a 3dl preset
Tks Ivy, nice render! Ok I'm going to get this set and convert it to aweSurface. Just hope rendertimes are counted in hours rather than days
I used Esemwy & Oso3D free IrayTo3Delight conversion script https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/139326/irayto3delight-conversion-script/p1 and it worked out pretty well . if you add the details portion with the extra trees & props . that will add to the geometry, to render . But I think you will be happy with it . I use it to make background with
Well here's the first testrender. Yup the set is nice (and huge), still, I miss the bump- and displacement maps, only normalmaps in this set.
That looks really good,.its a nice set. I agree the set is huge lots of areas you can use for scenes renders. I would maybe try adding a specular light source as your side light it should help with the missing displacement maps, and help lessen the light shine a off the trees a little unless that was what you were going for.
i did my render with a ue light source sphere with software shadows settings which worked real well for me.
Good point on the light shine, I overdid the translucency on the trees, will continue tweaking;)
It says it has bump and roughness maps (whatever that means) so might be worth looking in the folder for them.
I am liking these 3Delight renders
Tks, yes that's what it says. However I did a manual convertion and had to browse to find all the maps, and there were the diffuse- translucency- opacity- roughness (meaning specular roughness I presumed) and normalmaps, but didn't find any bumpmaps. And checked the IRay material preset for the ground, it only used the diffuse- and normalmap. But I didn't yet load the "more detail" prop, maybe there's another folder for that stuff? Will have another look later:)
Tks Wendy:)
doublepost
I dunno if this helps any Sven. But when i converted my set over to 3dl i swapped the normal maps into the place of the bump map prostitution and moved the settings around 35% and it worked pretty good for me that way. I found that anything that needed displacement maps. I used the blacked out Mask-maps included in the set. though i did have to do this part of the conversion by hand
it gives pretty good renders swaping maps
this is the g8 giant HD iray on;y converted to 3dl & with this render you can clearly see that I still have issues with the glossy roughness, & bump settings on my characters skin conversions I'm not sure how to work around the gloss roughness issue
3dl render
Ok tks for the tips, I'll play around with those grayscale maps. AweSurface has a normal strength slider, but removing limits probably will cause some artefacts (bad normals). Using normal maps in the bumpchannel doesn't sound like an optimal solution, but worth a try:) I could also see how a greyscale version of the albedo map works.
The setting looks nice. So what shader did you use on the character? Did you use maps in the specular strength channels? Also note that using DoF has a great impact on how 3DL calculates geometry and thus specular highlights. With no DoF you miss out on some detail, and probably need to increase bump/displacement strength by a fair bit.
nice tip I'll play waround with the dof and see whatI can get for results
I just used the same free iray to 3dl script and move maps as need.
Ok guys and gals, really need some help here:) This is why I rarely buy IRay products, but now that I did, I'd really like to understand how to deal with this.
I loaded the Iray version to study how the materials are set up and which maps are used for what. It's basically the ground that I don't understand (and was my major concern).
I select the ground and look in the surface pane, expand the ground and there are 5 zones as this screenshot shows. Every zone uses the same two maps, one in the base color slot and one normalmap.
So I click on the base color map and open the textures list. The one that is inserted in the base color slot is called PG-matGroundL4-C. PG meaning Pine Grove.
In the list I also find a number of groundmaps called ML, for example ML-matGroundL3-C. ML meaning Medieval Lands. Please have a look at that list, there are several ground maps both ML and PG ones, also a number of ML ground masks, like ML_matGround_MaskL2. However non of them are in use, for the ground only the PG-matGroundL4-C and PG-matGroundL5-N (normal map) are used, so what are the other maps doing in here? And what is Pine Grove?
I would be so greatful if somebody came up with an explanation, as I'm totally lost here. I need to get the ground to look like a ground and randomly trying out all those options and doing testrenders will take days or weeks.
Thanks!
Ivy, your ground seems to use those maps and masks, would you be so kind to have a look at it, my guess is those are set up in LIE? When and if you have a couple of minutes to spare? Tks
Hi Sven
If you slide the cut out opacity setting back and fourth you will notice that each of ground mat has its own region there are 5 ground mat and 5 regions 1 for each map, the mask in the iray render I believe is used as a displacement map & for and the normal map I believe that would replace the bump maps normally used in 3dl. thatss what I used but you will need to manully set dial settings. The 5 regions of the ground are covered by its own set of maps 1 difused, 1 normal , and 1 mask. and it appears to me that is used covers each of 5 area of the ground model. that is how i approached it when i converted it so there should be a 1 map each for each of the 5 ground region, then the extra details load their own maps
I am also just guessing here . but the I think the "PG-matGroundL4-C & PG Pine Grove maps are used for the extra details when you load them . it didn't look like it ws set up as a lie overlay to me. you can always ask Andrey Pestryakov for clarification
That is why after i run the convertion script i went back and swapped maps around for dispacment and bump
But but...the IRay set loads with identical settings for the ground regions, except for the tiling, they all share the same diffuse map and the same normal map, I can't see anything else being used
Ok, I'll go have a check to see if I can figure it out, tks!
Aaaargh
Ok so five ground regions...nine diffuse maps...seven normal maps...eight masks...split into two folders. I'll sleep on it and give it tomorrow, if I can't figure it out by then I'll ask for a refund. There must be some diffuse overlays involved, but the possibilities are pretty much endless
I managed to add some detail in LIE by randomly stacking a couple of diffusemaps and adding the corresponding masks, however it looked far from the promos, and no idea how to use the normalmaps if I use LIE. Still hoping for some tips. What really baffles me is the Iray material using only one diffuse- and one normalmap, still renders like it should (Did a quick testrender in the viewport). Where the hell are those masks in the Ubershader?
I used the included maps I just used a free script to change things from iray to 3delight then i went in and manually changed a few maps
there is 2 folders because the second folder contains the texture maps for the detail preload of this set. plus it also pulls textures from the first folder as well
here are 2 exact scenes 1 iray preload that comes with the set. andf the other is a screen shot of the same scene with my convertion. so you can look at what I did I'm not sure if this was right or not but the results worked for what I was looking for
Iray preload
same scene using my 3delight conversion
like i said i just converted the iray to 3dl and resaved it as a 3dl preload
Look Ivy, I really REALLY appreciate you trying to help me
I'm just not having issues with the trees, everything is fine, it's the ground I'm having trouble with. If you really want to help, best way would be to tell me exactly what maps you used for the ground in this render that you said was a 3DL render:
Because this looks just like my IRay preview and this is how I'd want it to look. I can't get this look by choosing one of the seven diffuse maps that has a corresponding normal map and simply put the normal map into the bump slot. Sorry for being thick
, but there must be some diffuse overlaying involved, one way or the other?
Sorry for any confusion I thought i was pretty straight forward. I just click the tree props as an example but i used the same steps for the ground. here is a screen shot of my ground surface settings. the ground texture folder only contains 6 different maps If there is over lay . I am not seeing it or having any issues with them. .you just have to make a few minor adjustments to your some setting etc.& you are already good at making those adjustments so maybe your just to close to it tonight and you need to sleep on it like I said I just used wilbars free iray to 3dl script worked like a charm. if there were any overlays or lie in the texture maps the conversion script must have wiped them out,
I'll post some comparisons tommrow of what my set looks like with no lights . with 5 lights no sky dome and a render with UE light and a poser sky dome
Hi Sven
I spent about a hour this morning doing these for you I hope these help
I used the same set and set up as I described above I used different light settings and I rendered each of those light settings with the same 3dl converted set. I did not use the preload for the extra details for these renders because i want to speed this up the renders took about 31/2 minutes each, my conclusion is different light sources give different results . But if there is a lie of texture overlaying i am just not seeing it i am sorry
with nothing further udo
This is my 3dl set up with no lights
This is the no light render 18 seconds to render
This is a 5 light set up with no sky dome
This is a 5 light render with no sky dome 1minute 34 seconds to render
This ia Uber environment 2 light sphere set up with a poser skydome
This ia Uber environment 2 light sphere with a poser skydome rendered results 3 minutes 38 seconds to render
First, Ivy, I want to thank you again for helping me out, I owe you one
.
Not on my DS machine yet, but have been studying your renders. Very confusing indeed.
Looking at these two especially:
First one without the skydome, the ground looks just like what I get, no detail, no rocks. Second one looks like a completely different texture. I get that different light coditions yield different results, but still...
Could I be so bold to ask you one more thing? Could you confirm that (in your 3DL version) all the ground regions use the same diffuse map PG-matGroundL4-C? This is the one that loads with the original IRay set, and, as I mentioned, in this IRay set every ground region shares this diffuse map, identical settings except for tiling.
If your version has different maps for different regions, please list the maps used in the diffuse channel for each region!
Tks again!!!
You guys will appreciate the problems I have using stuff in Carrara and iClone
not owning this set I cannot say but often it is not intuitive how some stuff works using masking and many times I actually end up rendering iray diffuse maps on big square planes using a shader saved from the set for my other softwares as DS lacks a map baking function, Stonemason sets I do this in particular as often several masking functions
I hear you
!!! What's most confusing is the fact that, in the original Iray set, for the ground, only two textures are used, a diffuse- and a normal map. Still when looking at the texture list that I posted, the set loads with several maps and ground masks that, as far as I can see, are not in use
You can as I do with other sets try selecting a ground piece individually and saving it as a materials preset and a shader, I often do both
then applying to a primitive
it can be confusing on the whole set as sometimes fancy brick functions are being used at least with the SM sets I mentioned, I suspect AP is not as complex but honestly don’t know.
with fancy MDL shaders you don’t necessarily see it all in the shader parameters outliner either