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Medieval Lands to 3DL?

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  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,590
    edited July 2019

    Applied to a plane and rendered as a map from above you can forgo the environment dome and sky just use headlamp, as that gives an even more shadowless light so not too bad in iray even CPU

    setting camera focal length  to 50mm not a bad idea either 

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    Wendy_Carrara said:

    You can as I do with other sets try selecting a ground piece individually and saving it as a materials preset and a shader, I often do both

    then applying to a primitive 

    it can be confusing on the whole set as sometimes fancy brick functions are being used at least with the SM sets I mentioned, I suspect AP is not as complex but honestly don’t know.

    with fancy MDL shaders you don’t necessarily see it all in the shader parameters outliner either

    I checked the base color channel, both the image editor and LIE, for some tiling that wouldn't transfer to 3DL, couldn't find anything, but maybe I've overlooked something, not at all familiar with the ins and outs of the IRay Uber. And anyway, Ivy managed to make it look good, so...

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    Wendy_Carrara said:

    Applied to a plane and rendered as a map from above you can forgo the environment dome and sky just use headlamp, as that gives an even more shadowless light so not too bad in iray even CPU

    setting camera focal length  to 50mm not a bad idea either 

    Aah good call!

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,590

    Oh and untick the ground!

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    edited July 2019
    Sven Dullah said:

    First, Ivy, I want to thank you again for helping me out, I owe you onesmiley.

    Not on my DS machine yet, but have been studying your renders. Very confusing indeed.

    Looking at these two especially:

     

    First one without the skydome, the ground looks just like what I get, no detail, no rocks. Second one looks like a completely different texture. I get that different light coditions yield different results, but still...

    Could I be so bold to ask you one more thing? Could you confirm that (in your 3DL version) all the ground regions use the same diffuse map PG-matGroundL4-C? This is the one that loads with the original IRay set, and, as I mentioned, in this IRay set every ground region shares this diffuse map, identical settings except for tiling.

    If your version has different maps for different regions, please list the maps used in the diffuse channel for each region!

    Tks  again!!!

    I think what your seeing is how the different light sources with their raytrace shadow maps react to the texture maps . you have to remember with Uber light environments, you have soft shadow occlusions which give a light bounce similar to what iray gives , which is why I think that why the light dome render looks better than the rest of them.  I really can't explain it myself. but when ever i can i use ue light sources for that soft occlusion light bounce.   but you can clearly see i used the same set with the same setting just different light sources. and every result was different.

     I used this free iray to 3delight converter script , which does a decent job of map placements . https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/139326/irayto3delight-conversion-script/p1  

    Here are the texture maps you requested for the ground are list as such

    ground>

    Matground1  - Base map  PG-matGroundL4-C  with the Diffuse Roughness dial set @100% - Bump map is PG-matGroundL5-N  dial set @ 14%

    Matground2 - Base map  PG-matGroundL4-C  with the Diffuse Roughness dial set @100% - Bump map is PG-matGroundL5-N  dial set @ 14%

    Matground3  Base map  PG-matGroundL4-C  with the Diffuse Roughness dial set @100% - Bump map is PG-matGroundL5-N  dial set @ 14%   Reflection Color PG-matGroundL4-C  with the Reflection Strength dial set  @ 100%  (see screen shot 1)

    Matground4  Base map  PG-matGroundL4-C  with the Diffuse Roughness dial set @100% - Bump map is PG-matGroundL5-N  dial set @ 14%   Reflection Color PG-matGroundL4-C  with the Reflection Strength dial set  @ 100% 

    Matground5  Base map  PG-matGroundL4-C  with the Diffuse Roughness dial set @100% - Bump map is PG-matGroundL5-N  dial set @ 14%   Reflection Color PG-matGroundL4-C  with the Reflection Strength dial set  @ 100% 

    water map>

    defuse color black @ 100%- Glossiness dial set @ 94%  -     Specular color  white- Specular strength  100%  Bump Map PG-matWater-N - dail set @ 50%  I also noticed the reflection color appears to be dark blue and that is set @ 100% see screen shot 2

     

    2.JPG
    508 x 912 - 73K
    1.JPG
    504 x 904 - 70K
    Post edited by Ivy on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    Ivy said:
    Sven Dullah said:

    First, Ivy, I want to thank you again for helping me out, I owe you onesmiley.

    Not on my DS machine yet, but have been studying your renders. Very confusing indeed.

    Looking at these two especially:

     

    First one without the skydome, the ground looks just like what I get, no detail, no rocks. Second one looks like a completely different texture. I get that different light coditions yield different results, but still...

    Could I be so bold to ask you one more thing? Could you confirm that (in your 3DL version) all the ground regions use the same diffuse map PG-matGroundL4-C? This is the one that loads with the original IRay set, and, as I mentioned, in this IRay set every ground region shares this diffuse map, identical settings except for tiling.

    If your version has different maps for different regions, please list the maps used in the diffuse channel for each region!

    Tks  again!!!

    I think what your seeing is how the different light sources with their raytrace shadow maps react to the texture maps . you have to remember with Uber light environments, you have soft shadow occlusions which give a light bounce similar to what iray gives , which is why I think that why the light dome render looks better than the rest of them.  I really can't explain it myself. but when ever i can i use ue light sources for that soft occlusion light bounce.   but you can clearly see i used the same set with the same setting just different light sources. and every result was different.

     I used this free iray to 3delight converter script , which does a decent job of map placements . https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/139326/irayto3delight-conversion-script/p1  

    Here are the texture maps you requested for the ground are list as such

    ground>

    Matground1  - Base map  PG-matGroundL4-C  with the Diffuse Roughness dial set @100% - Bump map is PG-matGroundL5-N  dial set @ 14%

    Matground2 - Base map  PG-matGroundL4-C  with the Diffuse Roughness dial set @100% - Bump map is PG-matGroundL5-N  dial set @ 14%

    Matground3  Base map  PG-matGroundL4-C  with the Diffuse Roughness dial set @100% - Bump map is PG-matGroundL5-N  dial set @ 14%   Reflection Color PG-matGroundL4-C  with the Reflection Strength dial set  @ 100%  (see screen shot 1)

    Matground4  Base map  PG-matGroundL4-C  with the Diffuse Roughness dial set @100% - Bump map is PG-matGroundL5-N  dial set @ 14%   Reflection Color PG-matGroundL4-C  with the Reflection Strength dial set  @ 100% 

    Matground5  Base map  PG-matGroundL4-C  with the Diffuse Roughness dial set @100% - Bump map is PG-matGroundL5-N  dial set @ 14%   Reflection Color PG-matGroundL4-C  with the Reflection Strength dial set  @ 100% 

    water map>

    defuse color black @ 100%- Glossiness dial set @ 94%  -     Specular color  white- Specular strength  100%  Bump Map PG-matWater-N - dail set @ 50%  I also noticed the reflection color appears to be dark blue and that is set @ 100% see screen shot 2

     

     

    Big Thanks

    Ok now I know what texture to use, and that there is no overlaying involved, so will go from there;) As I use aweSurface with scripted pathtracing the convertion script won't work, so I'm used to manually converting everything, including the dfault 3DL shaders. Normally there are no issues converting 3DL shaders, but the independent tiling together with overlaying with the IRayUber will always be tricky.

    So, since the ground uses only one of the nine included diffuse/albedo maps, any idea why they are there? surprise...laugh Not to mention the maskslaugh

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    Sven Dullah said:
     

    So, since the ground uses only one of the nine included diffuse/albedo maps, any idea why they are there? surprise...laugh Not to mention the maskslaugh

    if you look at the other props and stuff those other maps are for the castle props and trees & rocks ( with out going in and looking ) I believe there are 3 texture folders for ths set. The mask would be used for cut out opacity in the windows and bridge base props & normals maps used for bump in tiling for iray rendering.  thats has been my understanding looking at the layout

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    edited July 2019
    Wendy_Carrara said:

    Applied to a plane and rendered as a map from above you can forgo the environment dome and sky just use headlamp, as that gives an even more shadowless light so not too bad in iray even CPU

    setting camera focal length  to 50mm not a bad idea either 

    Wendy thats is one of my cheat secrets, ..lol  I have a freebie for panes you can use just as you described :) http://www.sharecg.com/v/92902/gallery/21/DAZ-Studio/Ivys-Magic-Pane-prop

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,590
    Ivy said:
    Wendy_Carrara said:

    Applied to a plane and rendered as a map from above you can forgo the environment dome and sky just use headlamp, as that gives an even more shadowless light so not too bad in iray even CPU

    setting camera focal length  to 50mm not a bad idea either 

    Wendy thats is one of my cheat secrects, ..lol  heres a freebie for panes you can use just as you described :) http://www.sharecg.com/v/92902/gallery/21/DAZ-Studio/Ivys-Magic-Pane-prop

    I have been doing it for years with complicated 3Delight, Bryce  and Poser procedurals too, it’s a simple solution in any program that uses more than straight texture maps

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165

    yes and you can add extra props in front of the character in the scene to give the back ground pane depth too , its a really great cheat for saving on resouces

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited July 2019

    So, still a big mystery how to set up that ground to look like the Iray version...that groundtexture is just plain vegetation, no rocks or anything, so in my world changing the lighting can't magically make the rocks show. Anyway, made an attempt to make it look descent without the rocks, made a displacement- and a specular roughness map to give it some depth. Will continue tweaking, and may test the things Wendy suggested, or use LIE and make my own masks. Testrender nr 2:

    image

    And just to test something completely different I tried some cliff shaders and stripped the whole thing;) Those are customshaders and won't convert easily to aweSurface so used regular 3DL, quick and dirty testrender:

    image

    Now working on the added detail stuff. Looks like those extra props will cover most of the center area, so maybe it'll work in the end:)

    Medieval Lands 2 awe.png
    1280 x 720 - 2M
    Medieval Regular 3DL.png
    1280 x 720 - 2M
    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621

    And after having a new look at the promos I'm willing to give up. It's just not possible to get this look using one albedo- and one normal map...no way! Something going on under the hood and I just don't know Iray that well to figure it out. I've searched hi and lo inside the IrayUber trying to understand how this is done. Still convinced that the ground uses atleast three layers with masks.

    The link is in my opening post if someone want's to look at those promos.

  • AlmightyQUESTAlmightyQUEST Posts: 2,005

    Ok I don't have the product, but looking at some of the images, does the ground even use the standard Iray Uber shader? Some of those rocks look like props, but some looks like it is rock based on the angle of the incline. Now maybe the maps are just set up to line up that way, but is it a special type of shader that has additional capabilities?

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited July 2019
    AlmightyQUEST said:

    Ok I don't have the product, but looking at some of the images, does the ground even use the standard Iray Uber shader? Some of those rocks look like props, but some looks like it is rock based on the angle of the incline. Now maybe the maps are just set up to line up that way, but is it a special type of shader that has additional capabilities?

    I just loaded the Iray preset again and indeed the shader is called matGround. I changed the base color map to something completely different and it still renders perfectly, LOL, even when removing the map. So obviously a custom shader using a number of layers with masking, and you can't access them? The only thing I found in the shader that actually does something is tiling.

    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    Ivy said:

    it gives pretty good renders swaping maps 

    this is the g8 giant HD iray on;y  converted to 3dl & with this render you can clearly see that I still have issues with the glossy roughness, & bump settings on my characters skin conversions I'm not sure how to work around the gloss roughness issue

    3dl render

     

    Ivy, is it possible that this is an Iray render after all?

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited July 2019

    I imported one of the ground mats to shader mixer. There are eight texture instance mask bricks. Among a million of other bricks LOL.

    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    AlmightyQUEST said:

    Ok I don't have the product, but looking at some of the images, does the ground even use the standard Iray Uber shader? Some of those rocks look like props, but some looks like it is rock based on the angle of the incline. Now maybe the maps are just set up to line up that way, but is it a special type of shader that has additional capabilities?

    Tks a lot mate, I was going nutslaugh. I stated i the opening post that the ground could be a problem haha...atleast now I know it was an impossible task to take on.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,590
    edited July 2019

    as I said save it as a shader preset and load it on a plane and render it

    I sadly don't have it or I would save some for you as just dufs it would load your maps

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    Wendy_Carrara said:

    as I said save it as a shader preset and load it on a plane and render it

    I sadly don't have it or I would save some for you as just dufs it would load your maps

    I've thought of that Wendy. But this particular set is HUGE. And if you want to preserve the details you can't tile that texture, have a look at those promos, sticks and stones and paths and whatnot. Can't even imagine what kind of resolution I would need. And that would only give me a diffusemap. For a smaller set, sure, but I have to find another solution.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,590
    Sven Dullah said:
    Wendy_Carrara said:

    as I said save it as a shader preset and load it on a plane and render it

    I sadly don't have it or I would save some for you as just dufs it would load your maps

    I've thought of that Wendy. But this particular set is HUGE. And if you want to preserve the details you can't tile that texture, have a look at those promos, sticks and stones and paths and whatnot. Can't even imagine what kind of resolution I would need. And that would only give me a diffusemap. For a smaller set, sure, but I have to find another solution.

    a different ground shader then, there are some awesome height based etc 3Delight shaders that can ignore uv

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    Wendy_Carrara said:
    Sven Dullah said:
    Wendy_Carrara said:

    as I said save it as a shader preset and load it on a plane and render it

    I sadly don't have it or I would save some for you as just dufs it would load your maps

    I've thought of that Wendy. But this particular set is HUGE. And if you want to preserve the details you can't tile that texture, have a look at those promos, sticks and stones and paths and whatnot. Can't even imagine what kind of resolution I would need. And that would only give me a diffusemap. For a smaller set, sure, but I have to find another solution.

    a different ground shader then, there are some awesome height based etc 3Delight shaders that can ignore uv

    Yup that's a possibility. I'll make my own version of it now that I know the deal. It's a beautiful set and that shader...well it wasn't pretty when I opened it in shadermixerlaugh.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited July 2019

    Tks again to everybody who helped me out with this set! Even if I can't recreate that ground with 3DL shaders it's still a nice set and useful for many things. Will think twice, though, before purchasing another Iray only product;)

    Oh I forgot: Tks @agentunawares for sharing your beautiful and high dynamic range HDRIssmiley

    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,045
    edited July 2019

    https://www.sharecg.com/v/89313/browse/7/Material-and-Shader/Willbear-3DL-Terrain-Shader

     

    This might help; it’s a Normal based two layer 3dl shader I made.

    Granted, if this product has a shader using more layers that’s going to be tricky.

    Post edited by Oso3D on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621

    Hey tks so much:) Looks very useful although it probably won't render with scripted pathtracing. But I still use regular 3Delight for animationyes

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    Oso3D said:

    https://www.sharecg.com/v/89313/browse/7/Material-and-Shader/Willbear-3DL-Terrain-Shader

     

    This might help; it’s a Normal based two layer 3dl shader I made.

    Granted, if this product has a shader using more layers that’s going to be tricky.

    Thanks Will :)

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    Sven Dullah said:

    Tks again to everybody who helped me out with this set! Even if I can't recreate that ground with 3DL shaders it's still a nice set and useful for many things. Will think twice, though, before purchasing another Iray only product;)

    Oh I forgot: Tks @agentunawares for sharing your beautiful and high dynamic range HDRIssmiley

    Hi Sven this looks great, maybe a little dark. but the water and trees look awesome.   Did you try using a ue light to see if it made any diffrence for you?

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    edited July 2019
    Sven Dullah said:
    Ivy said:
     

     

    Ivy, is it possible that this is an Iray render after all?

    Its 3delight. I use this set to make back grounds with 3dl is easier on resources than iray.     i used a UE lights dome set up as i described  , This is the set up same as i showed you above only with the giant added in which i also coverted to 3dl using Wills script I don't have awshaders pak so I work with this script

     

    Capture.JPG
    1899 x 1013 - 311K
    Post edited by Ivy on
  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    edited July 2019

    This one is Iray using this same converted 3dl medievel set in my first post on this thread. with the same poser skydome rendered in 3dl  set on a bill board for background, I could not have rendered this in Iray other wise.  you can get the sky dome free https://sharecg.com/v/45996/gallery/11/Poser/SkyDome

     and the texture pack that has this skydome i used  https://sharecg.com/v/79184/gallery/11/Poser/SkyDome-expansion-6

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited July 2019
    Ivy said:
    Sven Dullah said:

    Tks again to everybody who helped me out with this set! Even if I can't recreate that ground with 3DL shaders it's still a nice set and useful for many things. Will think twice, though, before purchasing another Iray only product;)

    Oh I forgot: Tks @agentunawares for sharing your beautiful and high dynamic range HDRIssmiley

    Hi Sven this looks great, maybe a little dark. but the water and trees look awesome.   Did you try using a ue light to see if it made any diffrence for you?

    Tks, was going for high contrast. Awe works like IRay in this regard, that's pathtracing, light rays bounce around and you can specify the max number of bounces, so ambient occlusion comes for free, no need to add indirect lighting. The dark areas are simply a matter of setting the gamma on the HDRI;) (Of course you can add light if needed)

    Ivy said:
    Sven Dullah said:
    Ivy said:
     

     

    Ivy, is it possible that this is an Iray render after all?

    Its 3delight. I use this set to make back grounds with 3dl is easier on resources than iray.     i used a UE lights dome set up as i described  , This is the set up same as i showed you above only with the giant added in which i also coverted to 3dl using Wills script I don't have awshaders pak so I work with this script

     

    Sorry Ivy, but no, that's the IRay custom shader that the original set loads with. It's an MDL shadermixer network.

    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    edited July 2019

    I just don't know what to tell you its rendred in 3delight & I am sorry I could not help you because this is my conversion & it works great for me I do not why it does not for you sad

    i hope you find what does work for you

    Post edited by Ivy on
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