Daz Studio Pro BETA - version 4.12.2.60! (*UPDATED*)

barbult

What is the difference between CPU Load Limit and CPU Thread Affinity? The CPU Load Limit shows what appears to be a number of cores. CPU Thread Affinity is just a check box. How do these two interact? What does each one do?

DAZ_Rawb

Eboshijaana said:

"Support for a new fiber primitive in order to support hair, fur and other geometries based on curves without tessellation. A new example has been added."

From the NVIDIA highlights.

Where could we check this new thing?

The hair integration has not been done at this time, we wanted to limit the changes when putting in the new Iray 2020 integration (all previous betas have been on various versions of Iray 2019). Additional work that has not yet been done is the work to get the extra canvas features integrated which would allow for the toon renderer as well.

 

For the 4.12.1 release (which this is a release candidate for), we wanted to limit the scope of changes from the previous beta to this one. Nvidia has done a good job responding to the bug requests we have forwarded and have fixed them up in this Iray 2020 release, so we want to get it out soon to all of our users. Additionally they have added the "low memory mode" to help bring the rendering memory requirements back down to the Iray release in the 4.11 version of Daz Studio.

 

In a future release we are aiming to get the hair integration which should both speed up rendering with strand based and dforce hair. Also we will get the toon rendering integrated that was also added in Iray 2020. No firm dates on that, but you'll be able to see them in a future beta first, so keep checking for updates.

Sorel

daz studio will actually have a real time renderer in the future? I'm intrigued. 

nonesuch00

mathiasdeckman said:

So after several months of waiting for Daz 3D to get Daz Studio 4.12.whatever to work right, I just spent the last two hours reading about all the added features, disabling of multiple instances, all while not being able to fix the CPU fall back problem. Wow.  Here's an idea; look at what you changed from 4.11 to 4.12 and sift through that code, because I have absolutely no problems, and there was another person here, Outrider 42, who had no problems, until you started introducing things without proper testing.

From what I can see, those whom have problems, either have Daz 4.12 and/or Windows 10.  Currently, i'm running Windows 7 Ultimate, Daz 4.11 and have enough hard resources to run up to 10 instances of Daz while 5 of them are rendering out simultaneous 600 DPI images off one Titan.   I did upgrade to daz 4.12 beta.. and way back in the beginning i couldn't save a file worth a damn. I immediately uninstalled Daz 4.12 and went back to 4.11, hoping, for over a year now, that Daz 4.12 would get fixed. Nope, seems the developers are only adding problems while taking out useful features.

At this Rate, I'll never be able to upgrade to 4.12 with all the bad decisions being made.  So push aside the bean counter people, and focus on the main issues plaguing Daz 4.12; the CPU fall back issue. Leave the instances thing alone (you never had a problem with it before until just recently as Outrider42 pointed out- and i'm one who runs multiple sessions each day (with renderings to boot- [and to really blow your mind, I've run multiple computers off a singular daz library that was shared on the network...hows that for pushing the limits; again with no problems] without failure or fault here), and add in a siingular feature that I'm finding others have too- duplicate formulas. A simple 'ignore warning' toggle switch and everything will be fine- since we can't exactly control what or when vendors update their stuff (I've had to fix things myself because of a screwup). I mean, if you can eliminate multiple instances with a singular toggle switch that takes like two lines of code (someone actually stated this in the other thread), then an 'ignore warning' toggle switch will be roughly the same size fix.

Beceause I mean, seriously, 46 pages of beta discussions, the most prevelant being CPU fallback. I say again; what did you change and examine that code. Nvidia drivers were being released justs as quickly with 4.11 as they are with 4.12- and those that stayed on 4.11 have NO ISSUES.

They can't ignore the duplicate ID problem as how would they know that you want the one they chose and not the one they ignored? It would be nice if they desired a GUI to go through and find all duplicate IDs and present them to be chosen to either be renamed or to delete sort of how the G3 to G8 Transfer GUI works.

nonesuch00

Richard Haseltine said:

Eboshijaana said:

"Support for a new fiber primitive in order to support hair, fur and other geometries based on curves without tessellation. A new example has been added."

From the NVIDIA highlights.

Where could we check this new thing?

Not every feature listed in the Iray change log is implemented in DS, yet, but if they haven't been scrubbed from the log it probably means they're implementation is planned. I am told that hair features are certainly intended to be implemented, and that the implementation should be fairly simple for end-users (possibly via a new shader with slightly different properties for soem aspects).

Is the Strand Based Hair going to be based now on those hair primitives? Or will a new hair creation GUI be designed?

mikmod

RayDAnt said:

maxikg said:

When trying to use Iray preview, 4.12.1.109 beta instantly crashes on nvoptix.dll (latest driver 445.87) on Windows 7 with i9 7940X Skylake-X CPU - is Nvidia forcing use of AVX-512 with Iray now on those CPUs? If so, then Iray became useless on Win7...

Going from DS 4.12.1.076 to 4.12.1.109 Iray has moved from using Embree version 2.8 to 3.6 as the underlying graphics API for CPU rendering. And as of version 2.15.0, Embree on both Windows and Linux is said to be bulit using AVX-512 support. So I suspect you may be correct.

All my Windows systems are W10 right now (and happily so - I'm a huge fan of W10) so I can't test this for myself. But someone else with a W7 machine might wanna check as well to make sure - it could also just be a fluke implementation bug.

Well, I can tell that CPU Iray rendering work pretty well with this Daz beta on W7 with my Skylake X CPU, so Intel predicted that kind of use. Tested just now. Nvidia probably did something with Iray 2020... It crashes instantly. dForce works well, no such crashes.

Sadly, at this point, I can't afford myself to go into W10, not yet. Other software I use isn't a fan of W10.

mathiasdeckman

nonesuch00 said:

mathiasdeckman said:

So after several months of waiting for Daz 3D to get Daz Studio 4.12.whatever to work right, I just spent the last two hours reading about all the added features, disabling of multiple instances, all while not being able to fix the CPU fall back problem. Wow.  Here's an idea; look at what you changed from 4.11 to 4.12 and sift through that code, because I have absolutely no problems, and there was another person here, Outrider 42, who had no problems, until you started introducing things without proper testing.

From what I can see, those whom have problems, either have Daz 4.12 and/or Windows 10.  Currently, i'm running Windows 7 Ultimate, Daz 4.11 and have enough hard resources to run up to 10 instances of Daz while 5 of them are rendering out simultaneous 600 DPI images off one Titan.   I did upgrade to daz 4.12 beta.. and way back in the beginning i couldn't save a file worth a damn. I immediately uninstalled Daz 4.12 and went back to 4.11, hoping, for over a year now, that Daz 4.12 would get fixed. Nope, seems the developers are only adding problems while taking out useful features.

At this Rate, I'll never be able to upgrade to 4.12 with all the bad decisions being made.  So push aside the bean counter people, and focus on the main issues plaguing Daz 4.12; the CPU fall back issue. Leave the instances thing alone (you never had a problem with it before until just recently as Outrider42 pointed out- and i'm one who runs multiple sessions each day (with renderings to boot- [and to really blow your mind, I've run multiple computers off a singular daz library that was shared on the network...hows that for pushing the limits; again with no problems] without failure or fault here), and add in a siingular feature that I'm finding others have too- duplicate formulas. A simple 'ignore warning' toggle switch and everything will be fine- since we can't exactly control what or when vendors update their stuff (I've had to fix things myself because of a screwup). I mean, if you can eliminate multiple instances with a singular toggle switch that takes like two lines of code (someone actually stated this in the other thread), then an 'ignore warning' toggle switch will be roughly the same size fix.

Beceause I mean, seriously, 46 pages of beta discussions, the most prevelant being CPU fallback. I say again; what did you change and examine that code. Nvidia drivers were being released justs as quickly with 4.11 as they are with 4.12- and those that stayed on 4.11 have NO ISSUES.

They can't ignore the duplicate ID problem as how would they know that you want the one they chose and not the one they ignored? It would be nice if they desired a GUI to go through and find all duplicate IDs and present them to be chosen to either be renamed or to delete sort of how the G3 to G8 Transfer GUI works.

The duplicate ID is not the same as the duplicate formula. Two entirely different problems; the duplicate ID problem is easy to fix with a script, the duplicate formula isn't. if Daz 3D implimented a feature to 'ignore' the duplicate formula, everything would load fast, regardless of whom was using it.

 

Instancing is somethign Daz can do, and it wasn't primarily about resources but about clean coexistance from my understanding. A lot of the CPU drop-back issues are in the way Iray works, and Daz was precisely zero control of that (they can, and do, report issues to nVidia) - Daz has doen some work on the aspects that they do cotnrol, which should have improved the experience for animators when the first frame would render n CPU and the second dropped to CPU, but - particularly for non-RTX cards - the newer versions of Iray are passing more code to the GPU and so reducing the memory available for scene data.

And yet, I have no problems with iray workings in 4.11, nor did anyone else to this extent with 4.11, 4.10, etc, etc. So what else did the developers change from 4.11 to 4.12? That's the question that needs to be asked.  And instancing was only brought up because they started limiting beta users to singular instances- which got a TON of backlash. So for those who want it back, they roll back. that problem is easily solved. the CPU fallback isn't because it requires going BACK to 4.11, which Daz3D hasn't made available (and they should), otherwise third party solutions will be sought and exercised. Maybe forward that piece to the developers?

I said it before a ton of times and I'll say it again: making 4.11 available because of the flaming pile of garbage that 4.12.X is, is the only viable solution.

All the developers and moderators have to face it; 4.11 was the last solid release compared to 4.12.

Richard Haseltine

mathiasdeckman said:

nonesuch00 said:

mathiasdeckman said:

So after several months of waiting for Daz 3D to get Daz Studio 4.12.whatever to work right, I just spent the last two hours reading about all the added features, disabling of multiple instances, all while not being able to fix the CPU fall back problem. Wow.  Here's an idea; look at what you changed from 4.11 to 4.12 and sift through that code, because I have absolutely no problems, and there was another person here, Outrider 42, who had no problems, until you started introducing things without proper testing.

From what I can see, those whom have problems, either have Daz 4.12 and/or Windows 10.  Currently, i'm running Windows 7 Ultimate, Daz 4.11 and have enough hard resources to run up to 10 instances of Daz while 5 of them are rendering out simultaneous 600 DPI images off one Titan.   I did upgrade to daz 4.12 beta.. and way back in the beginning i couldn't save a file worth a damn. I immediately uninstalled Daz 4.12 and went back to 4.11, hoping, for over a year now, that Daz 4.12 would get fixed. Nope, seems the developers are only adding problems while taking out useful features.

At this Rate, I'll never be able to upgrade to 4.12 with all the bad decisions being made.  So push aside the bean counter people, and focus on the main issues plaguing Daz 4.12; the CPU fall back issue. Leave the instances thing alone (you never had a problem with it before until just recently as Outrider42 pointed out- and i'm one who runs multiple sessions each day (with renderings to boot- [and to really blow your mind, I've run multiple computers off a singular daz library that was shared on the network...hows that for pushing the limits; again with no problems] without failure or fault here), and add in a siingular feature that I'm finding others have too- duplicate formulas. A simple 'ignore warning' toggle switch and everything will be fine- since we can't exactly control what or when vendors update their stuff (I've had to fix things myself because of a screwup). I mean, if you can eliminate multiple instances with a singular toggle switch that takes like two lines of code (someone actually stated this in the other thread), then an 'ignore warning' toggle switch will be roughly the same size fix.

Beceause I mean, seriously, 46 pages of beta discussions, the most prevelant being CPU fallback. I say again; what did you change and examine that code. Nvidia drivers were being released justs as quickly with 4.11 as they are with 4.12- and those that stayed on 4.11 have NO ISSUES.

They can't ignore the duplicate ID problem as how would they know that you want the one they chose and not the one they ignored? It would be nice if they desired a GUI to go through and find all duplicate IDs and present them to be chosen to either be renamed or to delete sort of how the G3 to G8 Transfer GUI works.

The duplicate ID is not the same as the duplicate formula. Two entirely different problems; the duplicate ID problem is easy to fix with a script, the duplicate formula isn't. if Daz 3D implimented a feature to 'ignore' the duplicate formula, everything would load fast, regardless of whom was using it.

 

Instancing is somethign Daz can do, and it wasn't primarily about resources but about clean coexistance from my understanding. A lot of the CPU drop-back issues are in the way Iray works, and Daz was precisely zero control of that (they can, and do, report issues to nVidia) - Daz has doen some work on the aspects that they do cotnrol, which should have improved the experience for animators when the first frame would render n CPU and the second dropped to CPU, but - particularly for non-RTX cards - the newer versions of Iray are passing more code to the GPU and so reducing the memory available for scene data.

And yet, I have no problems with iray workings in 4.11, nor did anyone else to this extent with 4.11, 4.10, etc, etc. So what else did the developers change from 4.11 to 4.12? That's the question that needs to be asked.  And instancing was only brought up because they started limiting beta users to singular instances- which got a TON of backlash. So for those who want it back, they roll back. that problem is easily solved. the CPU fallback isn't because it requires going BACK to 4.11, which Daz3D hasn't made available (and they should), otherwise third party solutions will be sought and exercised. Maybe forward that piece to the developers?

I said it before a ton of times and I'll say it again: making 4.11 available because of the flaming pile of garbage that 4.12.X is, is the only viable solution.

All the developers and moderators have to face it; 4.11 was the last solid release compared to 4.12.

The Duplicate Formula error is not new to DS 4.12.x.x, and is accurately reporting an issue (occasioanlly an error in a single product, more usually a conflict between two products). It can't resolve the error (edit: ot rather, it will just go with the first formual - which is, I think, pretty much what you asked for, but that still means that the cntent is not working as intended or that oen of two shapes will not apply correctly, so the report is needed - and the load-speed impact is, as far as I know, unavoidable) - that has to be done with the creator(s) of the product(s), fixing the issue if it's a single product or at least one of them renaming one or more of their properties to eliminate the clash.

Instancng is now fully supported, instead of exploiting a loophole in the code (and occasioanlly causing issues).

Daz cannot fix Iray issues, it has tried to fix an issue on the Daz Studio side and it sounds as if nVidia has made changes that may well help on their side.

Richard Haseltine

nonesuch00 said:

Richard Haseltine said:

Eboshijaana said:

"Support for a new fiber primitive in order to support hair, fur and other geometries based on curves without tessellation. A new example has been added."

From the NVIDIA highlights.

Where could we check this new thing?

Not every feature listed in the Iray change log is implemented in DS, yet, but if they haven't been scrubbed from the log it probably means they're implementation is planned. I am told that hair features are certainly intended to be implemented, and that the implementation should be fairly simple for end-users (possibly via a new shader with slightly different properties for soem aspects).

Is the Strand Based Hair going to be based now on those hair primitives? Or will as new hair creation GUI be designed?

3Delight already takes hair strands as (RiSpec) curves, I believe. Currently the curves have to be tesselated for Iray but with this new feature, as I understand it, DS will be able to pass the curve data as curve data. I don't think it will involve any changes in the way Strand Based hair or dForce Hair work within DS, from what I understood.

nonesuch00

Richard Haseltine said:

nonesuch00 said:

Richard Haseltine said:

Eboshijaana said:

"Support for a new fiber primitive in order to support hair, fur and other geometries based on curves without tessellation. A new example has been added."

From the NVIDIA highlights.

Where could we check this new thing?

Not every feature listed in the Iray change log is implemented in DS, yet, but if they haven't been scrubbed from the log it probably means they're implementation is planned. I am told that hair features are certainly intended to be implemented, and that the implementation should be fairly simple for end-users (possibly via a new shader with slightly different properties for soem aspects).

Is the Strand Based Hair going to be based now on those hair primitives? Or will as new hair creation GUI be designed?

3Delight already takes hair strands as (RiSpec) curves, I believe. Currently the curves have to be tesselated for Iray but with this new feature, as I understand it, DS will be able to pass the curve data as curve data. I don't think it will involve any changes in the way Strand Based hair or dForce Hair work within DS, from what I understood.

thanks

gleberiksson

I can't open the new versions of DAZ 3D 4.12xx. First I downloaded 4.12.1.76 and thought it was a problem with this version. Now I have 4.12.1.109 and the same issue. The program is installed but when I try to open it, the program window doesn't open even though it is running in the task manager. Tried to reinstall and restart several times, no luck. General version 4.12 runs normally, but I experience problems with rendering in that one where the second frame is always being rendered by CPU instead of GPU. Any help is highly appreciated. 

DoctorJellybean

gleberiksson said:

I can't open the new versions of DAZ 3D 4.12xx. First I downloaded 4.12.1.76 and thought it was a problem with this version. Now I have 4.12.1.109 and the same issue. The program is installed but when I try to open it, the program window doesn't open even though it is running in the task manager. Tried to reinstall and restart several times, no luck. General version 4.12 runs normally, but I experience problems with rendering in that one where the second frame is always being rendered by CPU instead of GPU. Any help is highly appreciated. 

You didn't by any chance install it while an instance of DAZ Studio was running?

gleberiksson

DoctorJellybean said:

gleberiksson said:

I can't open the new versions of DAZ 3D 4.12xx. First I downloaded 4.12.1.76 and thought it was a problem with this version. Now I have 4.12.1.109 and the same issue. The program is installed but when I try to open it, the program window doesn't open even though it is running in the task manager. Tried to reinstall and restart several times, no luck. General version 4.12 runs normally, but I experience problems with rendering in that one where the second frame is always being rendered by CPU instead of GPU. Any help is highly appreciated. 

You didn't by any chance install it while an instance of DAZ Studio was running?

Well, first yes. But then I uninstalled all version of DAZ and only installed the new one. Same issue.. 

mikmod

Richard Haseltine said:

nonesuch00 said:

Richard Haseltine said:

Eboshijaana said:

"Support for a new fiber primitive in order to support hair, fur and other geometries based on curves without tessellation. A new example has been added."

From the NVIDIA highlights.

Where could we check this new thing?

Not every feature listed in the Iray change log is implemented in DS, yet, but if they haven't been scrubbed from the log it probably means they're implementation is planned. I am told that hair features are certainly intended to be implemented, and that the implementation should be fairly simple for end-users (possibly via a new shader with slightly different properties for soem aspects).

Is the Strand Based Hair going to be based now on those hair primitives? Or will as new hair creation GUI be designed?

3Delight already takes hair strands as (RiSpec) curves, I believe. Currently the curves have to be tesselated for Iray but with this new feature, as I understand it, DS will be able to pass the curve data as curve data. I don't think it will involve any changes in the way Strand Based hair or dForce Hair work within DS, from what I understood.

Maybe VRAM usage will drop thanks to that?

mathiasdeckman

Richard Haseltine said:

mathiasdeckman said:

nonesuch00 said:

mathiasdeckman said:

So after several months of waiting for Daz 3D to get Daz Studio 4.12.whatever to work right, I just spent the last two hours reading about all the added features, disabling of multiple instances, all while not being able to fix the CPU fall back problem. Wow.  Here's an idea; look at what you changed from 4.11 to 4.12 and sift through that code, because I have absolutely no problems, and there was another person here, Outrider 42, who had no problems, until you started introducing things without proper testing.

From what I can see, those whom have problems, either have Daz 4.12 and/or Windows 10.  Currently, i'm running Windows 7 Ultimate, Daz 4.11 and have enough hard resources to run up to 10 instances of Daz while 5 of them are rendering out simultaneous 600 DPI images off one Titan.   I did upgrade to daz 4.12 beta.. and way back in the beginning i couldn't save a file worth a damn. I immediately uninstalled Daz 4.12 and went back to 4.11, hoping, for over a year now, that Daz 4.12 would get fixed. Nope, seems the developers are only adding problems while taking out useful features.

At this Rate, I'll never be able to upgrade to 4.12 with all the bad decisions being made.  So push aside the bean counter people, and focus on the main issues plaguing Daz 4.12; the CPU fall back issue. Leave the instances thing alone (you never had a problem with it before until just recently as Outrider42 pointed out- and i'm one who runs multiple sessions each day (with renderings to boot- [and to really blow your mind, I've run multiple computers off a singular daz library that was shared on the network...hows that for pushing the limits; again with no problems] without failure or fault here), and add in a siingular feature that I'm finding others have too- duplicate formulas. A simple 'ignore warning' toggle switch and everything will be fine- since we can't exactly control what or when vendors update their stuff (I've had to fix things myself because of a screwup). I mean, if you can eliminate multiple instances with a singular toggle switch that takes like two lines of code (someone actually stated this in the other thread), then an 'ignore warning' toggle switch will be roughly the same size fix.

Beceause I mean, seriously, 46 pages of beta discussions, the most prevelant being CPU fallback. I say again; what did you change and examine that code. Nvidia drivers were being released justs as quickly with 4.11 as they are with 4.12- and those that stayed on 4.11 have NO ISSUES.

They can't ignore the duplicate ID problem as how would they know that you want the one they chose and not the one they ignored? It would be nice if they desired a GUI to go through and find all duplicate IDs and present them to be chosen to either be renamed or to delete sort of how the G3 to G8 Transfer GUI works.

The duplicate ID is not the same as the duplicate formula. Two entirely different problems; the duplicate ID problem is easy to fix with a script, the duplicate formula isn't. if Daz 3D implimented a feature to 'ignore' the duplicate formula, everything would load fast, regardless of whom was using it.

 

Instancing is somethign Daz can do, and it wasn't primarily about resources but about clean coexistance from my understanding. A lot of the CPU drop-back issues are in the way Iray works, and Daz was precisely zero control of that (they can, and do, report issues to nVidia) - Daz has doen some work on the aspects that they do cotnrol, which should have improved the experience for animators when the first frame would render n CPU and the second dropped to CPU, but - particularly for non-RTX cards - the newer versions of Iray are passing more code to the GPU and so reducing the memory available for scene data.

And yet, I have no problems with iray workings in 4.11, nor did anyone else to this extent with 4.11, 4.10, etc, etc. So what else did the developers change from 4.11 to 4.12? That's the question that needs to be asked.  And instancing was only brought up because they started limiting beta users to singular instances- which got a TON of backlash. So for those who want it back, they roll back. that problem is easily solved. the CPU fallback isn't because it requires going BACK to 4.11, which Daz3D hasn't made available (and they should), otherwise third party solutions will be sought and exercised. Maybe forward that piece to the developers?

I said it before a ton of times and I'll say it again: making 4.11 available because of the flaming pile of garbage that 4.12.X is, is the only viable solution.

All the developers and moderators have to face it; 4.11 was the last solid release compared to 4.12.

The Duplicate Formula error is not new to DS 4.12.x.x, and is accurately reporting an issue (occasioanlly an error in a single product, more usually a conflict between two products). It can't resolve the error (edit: ot rather, it will just go with the first formual - which is, I think, pretty much what you asked for, but that still means that the cntent is not working as intended or that oen of two shapes will not apply correctly, so the report is needed - and the load-speed impact is, as far as I know, unavoidable) - that has to be done with the creator(s) of the product(s), fixing the issue if it's a single product or at least one of them renaming one or more of their properties to eliminate the clash.

Instancng is now fully supported, instead of exploiting a loophole in the code (and occasioanlly causing issues).

Daz cannot fix Iray issues, it has tried to fix an issue on the Daz Studio side and it sounds as if nVidia has made changes that may well help on their side.

And as usual, you miss the entire point of what I'm saying, even though I'm speaking in clear english.  While the duplicate formula is not new to DS (in general), a toggle switch that allows the software to completely ignore it would decrease load times. Did you understand that?  A switch to tell Daz Studio to IGNORE the error and continue. So no, I didn't ask for the software to go with another formula or ignore the second, i'm asking for a switch to ignore the ENTIRE error and move on, not writing it to log or whatever some such excuse you want to give.

As for as the iray issues; don't shift blame to Nvidia, this fallback thing is on Daz. 4.11 it worked and still works. 4.12 it doesn't, all while Nvidia is cranking out updates.

Instancing was always fully supported- the devs just decided to mess with something that was fine to begin with.

marble

I now have something new to get hopeful about. I'd never heard of Google Filament before today but, having looked it up, it looks very encouraging.

https://github.com/google/filament

I wonder whether that would require an updated version of OpenGL and a better viewport experience? I really hope we can look forward to this being implemented soon. Then, onwards to soft-body physics via a much improved and faster dForce, perhaps. One can but wish.

WendyLuvsCatz

Richard Haseltine said:

nonesuch00 said:

Richard Haseltine said:

Eboshijaana said:

"Support for a new fiber primitive in order to support hair, fur and other geometries based on curves without tessellation. A new example has been added."

From the NVIDIA highlights.

Where could we check this new thing?

Not every feature listed in the Iray change log is implemented in DS, yet, but if they haven't been scrubbed from the log it probably means they're implementation is planned. I am told that hair features are certainly intended to be implemented, and that the implementation should be fairly simple for end-users (possibly via a new shader with slightly different properties for soem aspects).

Is the Strand Based Hair going to be based now on those hair primitives? Or will as new hair creation GUI be designed?

3Delight already takes hair strands as (RiSpec) curves, I believe. Currently the curves have to be tesselated for Iray but with this new feature, as I understand it, DS will be able to pass the curve data as curve data. I don't think it will involve any changes in the way Strand Based hair or dForce Hair work within DS, from what I understood.

yeah I prefer LAMH and 3Delight for this reason, the only issue being it not syncing for animation unless I force keyframes using animate on every frame on the timeline on the hair and possibly because of this DAZ studio ramps up my RAM until it crashes, So while a reasonable render time I can usually only do up to 30 frames!

The LAMH looks much nicer probably because not tessellated.

RayDAnt

mathiasdeckman said:

Richard Haseltine said:

mathiasdeckman said:

nonesuch00 said:

mathiasdeckman said:

So after several months of waiting for Daz 3D to get Daz Studio 4.12.whatever to work right, I just spent the last two hours reading about all the added features, disabling of multiple instances, all while not being able to fix the CPU fall back problem. Wow.  Here's an idea; look at what you changed from 4.11 to 4.12 and sift through that code, because I have absolutely no problems, and there was another person here, Outrider 42, who had no problems, until you started introducing things without proper testing.

From what I can see, those whom have problems, either have Daz 4.12 and/or Windows 10.  Currently, i'm running Windows 7 Ultimate, Daz 4.11 and have enough hard resources to run up to 10 instances of Daz while 5 of them are rendering out simultaneous 600 DPI images off one Titan.   I did upgrade to daz 4.12 beta.. and way back in the beginning i couldn't save a file worth a damn. I immediately uninstalled Daz 4.12 and went back to 4.11, hoping, for over a year now, that Daz 4.12 would get fixed. Nope, seems the developers are only adding problems while taking out useful features.

At this Rate, I'll never be able to upgrade to 4.12 with all the bad decisions being made.  So push aside the bean counter people, and focus on the main issues plaguing Daz 4.12; the CPU fall back issue. Leave the instances thing alone (you never had a problem with it before until just recently as Outrider42 pointed out- and i'm one who runs multiple sessions each day (with renderings to boot- [and to really blow your mind, I've run multiple computers off a singular daz library that was shared on the network...hows that for pushing the limits; again with no problems] without failure or fault here), and add in a siingular feature that I'm finding others have too- duplicate formulas. A simple 'ignore warning' toggle switch and everything will be fine- since we can't exactly control what or when vendors update their stuff (I've had to fix things myself because of a screwup). I mean, if you can eliminate multiple instances with a singular toggle switch that takes like two lines of code (someone actually stated this in the other thread), then an 'ignore warning' toggle switch will be roughly the same size fix.

Beceause I mean, seriously, 46 pages of beta discussions, the most prevelant being CPU fallback. I say again; what did you change and examine that code. Nvidia drivers were being released justs as quickly with 4.11 as they are with 4.12- and those that stayed on 4.11 have NO ISSUES.

They can't ignore the duplicate ID problem as how would they know that you want the one they chose and not the one they ignored? It would be nice if they desired a GUI to go through and find all duplicate IDs and present them to be chosen to either be renamed or to delete sort of how the G3 to G8 Transfer GUI works.

The duplicate ID is not the same as the duplicate formula. Two entirely different problems; the duplicate ID problem is easy to fix with a script, the duplicate formula isn't. if Daz 3D implimented a feature to 'ignore' the duplicate formula, everything would load fast, regardless of whom was using it.

 

Instancing is somethign Daz can do, and it wasn't primarily about resources but about clean coexistance from my understanding. A lot of the CPU drop-back issues are in the way Iray works, and Daz was precisely zero control of that (they can, and do, report issues to nVidia) - Daz has doen some work on the aspects that they do cotnrol, which should have improved the experience for animators when the first frame would render n CPU and the second dropped to CPU, but - particularly for non-RTX cards - the newer versions of Iray are passing more code to the GPU and so reducing the memory available for scene data.

And yet, I have no problems with iray workings in 4.11, nor did anyone else to this extent with 4.11, 4.10, etc, etc. So what else did the developers change from 4.11 to 4.12? That's the question that needs to be asked.  And instancing was only brought up because they started limiting beta users to singular instances- which got a TON of backlash. So for those who want it back, they roll back. that problem is easily solved. the CPU fallback isn't because it requires going BACK to 4.11, which Daz3D hasn't made available (and they should), otherwise third party solutions will be sought and exercised. Maybe forward that piece to the developers?

I said it before a ton of times and I'll say it again: making 4.11 available because of the flaming pile of garbage that 4.12.X is, is the only viable solution.

All the developers and moderators have to face it; 4.11 was the last solid release compared to 4.12.

The Duplicate Formula error is not new to DS 4.12.x.x, and is accurately reporting an issue (occasioanlly an error in a single product, more usually a conflict between two products). It can't resolve the error (edit: ot rather, it will just go with the first formual - which is, I think, pretty much what you asked for, but that still means that the cntent is not working as intended or that oen of two shapes will not apply correctly, so the report is needed - and the load-speed impact is, as far as I know, unavoidable) - that has to be done with the creator(s) of the product(s), fixing the issue if it's a single product or at least one of them renaming one or more of their properties to eliminate the clash.

Instancng is now fully supported, instead of exploiting a loophole in the code (and occasioanlly causing issues).

Daz cannot fix Iray issues, it has tried to fix an issue on the Daz Studio side and it sounds as if nVidia has made changes that may well help on their side.

And as usual, you miss the entire point of what I'm saying, even though I'm speaking in clear english.  While the duplicate formula is not new to DS (in general), a toggle switch that allows the software to completely ignore it would decrease load times. Did you understand that?  A switch to tell Daz Studio to IGNORE the error and continue.

So no, I didn't ask for the software to go with another formula or ignore the second, i'm asking for a switch to ignore the ENTIRE error and move on, not writing it to log or whatever some such excuse you want to give

This isn't a viable option from a software development standpoint because it would only work to make the origin of such errors impossible to identify - not correct them. And duplicate formular errors are not trivial since they result in the non-functionality of entire features/morphs. Perhaps a more robust duplicate formula error reporting/management mechanism is in order (eg. a popup/modal containing a cumulative list of all conflicting morphs encountered during the current application session along with the ability to selectively choose which ones DS should ignore) so that such errors can be more effectively identified and at least partially mitigated while a fix for the errant installation is incoming. But the solution lies in fixing the underlying errors - not making the software/user completely dumb to what's at fault.

 

mathiasdeckman said:

As for as the iray issues; don't shift blame to Nvidia, this fallback thing is on Daz. 4.11 it worked and still works. 4.12 it doesn't, all while Nvidia is cranking out updates.

You don't understand. CPU fallback regarding GPU based rendering isn't now - nor ever has been - a part of the Daz Studio featureset. It is entirely an internal mechanism to Nvidia Iray. Meaning that if behavior with it has changed between Daz Studio versions, the culprit/cause lies entirely within the domain of Iray's developers - not Daz's.

 

mathiasdeckman said:

Instancing was always fully supported- the devs just decided to mess with something that was fine to begin with.

Multi-instancing with prior DS releases was purely fortuitious and resulted in unexpected behavior/crashes under specific use cases. 4.12.1.XXX's adoption of formal multi-instancing mechanisms - while potentially cumbersome to setup/adapt to - eliminate any such issues. Making their creation the correct thing to do from a long-term software development standpoint.

Eboshijaana

DAZ_Rawb said:

Eboshijaana said:

"Support for a new fiber primitive in order to support hair, fur and other geometries based on curves without tessellation. A new example has been added."

From the NVIDIA highlights.

Where could we check this new thing?

The hair integration has not been done at this time, we wanted to limit the changes when putting in the new Iray 2020 integration (all previous betas have been on various versions of Iray 2019). Additional work that has not yet been done is the work to get the extra canvas features integrated which would allow for the toon renderer as well.

 

For the 4.12.1 release (which this is a release candidate for), we wanted to limit the scope of changes from the previous beta to this one. Nvidia has done a good job responding to the bug requests we have forwarded and have fixed them up in this Iray 2020 release, so we want to get it out soon to all of our users. Additionally they have added the "low memory mode" to help bring the rendering memory requirements back down to the Iray release in the 4.11 version of Daz Studio.

 

In a future release we are aiming to get the hair integration which should both speed up rendering with strand based and dforce hair. Also we will get the toon rendering integrated that was also added in Iray 2020. No firm dates on that, but you'll be able to see them in a future beta first, so keep checking for updates.

Thank (and those who replied to this earlier.) I was simply asking because it intrigued me.

nonesuch00

marble said:

I now have something new to get hopeful about. I'd never heard of Google Filament before today but, having looked it up, it looks very encouraging.

https://github.com/google/filament

I wonder whether that would require an updated version of OpenGL and a better viewport experience? I really hope we can look forward to this being implemented soon. Then, onwards to soft-body physics via a much improved and faster dForce, perhaps. One can but wish.

Filament:

APIs

• Native C++ API for Android, iOS, Linux, macOS and Windows
• Java/JNI API for Android, Linux, macOS and Windows
• JavaScript API

Backends

• OpenGL 4.1+ for Linux, macOS and Windows
• OpenGL ES 3.0+ for Android and iOS
• Metal for macOS and iOS
• Vulkan 1.0 for Android, Linux, macOS, and Windows
• WebGL 2.0 for all platforms

Although see many past Google projects that have been dropped. It's pretty odd that they support all those graphics APIs. Not complaining if they do manage it though as it means ATI GPUs will be supported.

galien

The new matte fog render settings look interesting.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the best way to use these.

 

IceCrMn

Just found the new Scheduling settings. You guys rock!

Thank you :) 

Now I can set load and thread affinity inside Studio and not have to fiddle with the Winows taskmanger or shell scripts to do so.

Here's the short version for the curious. Set the CPU load Limit down 1 click and check the box for "CPU Thread Affinity" and your computer will be much more usable while a render is running or the iray preview is running. 

CPU Load limit is the number of cores your CPU has. Mine has 8 so I set it to 7 and my computer only lets DS use 7 of my 8 cores so I have 1 free core to surf the web and do other stuff with.

Sure my CPU only renders will run 1/8 slower, but I don't care.

tgrace

On a Mac Catalina machine I've been trying to install the public build so that I can open all my .duf files but the install fails every time. I've contacted support days ago but no reply. I get a prompt to enter my admin password and then I get the install failed message.

Leana

Since it's asking for an admin password it might be a permissions problem. Is there a message in the log?

Totte

Leana said:

Since it's asking for an admin password it might be a permissions problem. Is there a message in the log?

The auth dialog is because DIM is installing things into a protected folder ( /Applications): If it fails, you either is running DIM from an account that are not allowed to sudo (run authenticated tasks), or you are installing on 10.15.4 which seems to have added even more security and protecting to /Applications.
I think you could solve this by create the folder "DAZStudio4 64-bit Public Build"  inside /Applications/DAZ 3D, at lest try it and run the installation again.

mathiasdeckman

RayDAnt said:

mathiasdeckman said:

Richard Haseltine said:

mathiasdeckman said:

nonesuch00 said:

mathiasdeckman said:

So after several months of waiting for Daz 3D to get Daz Studio 4.12.whatever to work right, I just spent the last two hours reading about all the added features, disabling of multiple instances, all while not being able to fix the CPU fall back problem. Wow.  Here's an idea; look at what you changed from 4.11 to 4.12 and sift through that code, because I have absolutely no problems, and there was another person here, Outrider 42, who had no problems, until you started introducing things without proper testing.

From what I can see, those whom have problems, either have Daz 4.12 and/or Windows 10.  Currently, i'm running Windows 7 Ultimate, Daz 4.11 and have enough hard resources to run up to 10 instances of Daz while 5 of them are rendering out simultaneous 600 DPI images off one Titan.   I did upgrade to daz 4.12 beta.. and way back in the beginning i couldn't save a file worth a damn. I immediately uninstalled Daz 4.12 and went back to 4.11, hoping, for over a year now, that Daz 4.12 would get fixed. Nope, seems the developers are only adding problems while taking out useful features.

At this Rate, I'll never be able to upgrade to 4.12 with all the bad decisions being made.  So push aside the bean counter people, and focus on the main issues plaguing Daz 4.12; the CPU fall back issue. Leave the instances thing alone (you never had a problem with it before until just recently as Outrider42 pointed out- and i'm one who runs multiple sessions each day (with renderings to boot- [and to really blow your mind, I've run multiple computers off a singular daz library that was shared on the network...hows that for pushing the limits; again with no problems] without failure or fault here), and add in a siingular feature that I'm finding others have too- duplicate formulas. A simple 'ignore warning' toggle switch and everything will be fine- since we can't exactly control what or when vendors update their stuff (I've had to fix things myself because of a screwup). I mean, if you can eliminate multiple instances with a singular toggle switch that takes like two lines of code (someone actually stated this in the other thread), then an 'ignore warning' toggle switch will be roughly the same size fix.

Beceause I mean, seriously, 46 pages of beta discussions, the most prevelant being CPU fallback. I say again; what did you change and examine that code. Nvidia drivers were being released justs as quickly with 4.11 as they are with 4.12- and those that stayed on 4.11 have NO ISSUES.

They can't ignore the duplicate ID problem as how would they know that you want the one they chose and not the one they ignored? It would be nice if they desired a GUI to go through and find all duplicate IDs and present them to be chosen to either be renamed or to delete sort of how the G3 to G8 Transfer GUI works.

The duplicate ID is not the same as the duplicate formula. Two entirely different problems; the duplicate ID problem is easy to fix with a script, the duplicate formula isn't. if Daz 3D implimented a feature to 'ignore' the duplicate formula, everything would load fast, regardless of whom was using it.

 

Instancing is somethign Daz can do, and it wasn't primarily about resources but about clean coexistance from my understanding. A lot of the CPU drop-back issues are in the way Iray works, and Daz was precisely zero control of that (they can, and do, report issues to nVidia) - Daz has doen some work on the aspects that they do cotnrol, which should have improved the experience for animators when the first frame would render n CPU and the second dropped to CPU, but - particularly for non-RTX cards - the newer versions of Iray are passing more code to the GPU and so reducing the memory available for scene data.

And yet, I have no problems with iray workings in 4.11, nor did anyone else to this extent with 4.11, 4.10, etc, etc. So what else did the developers change from 4.11 to 4.12? That's the question that needs to be asked.  And instancing was only brought up because they started limiting beta users to singular instances- which got a TON of backlash. So for those who want it back, they roll back. that problem is easily solved. the CPU fallback isn't because it requires going BACK to 4.11, which Daz3D hasn't made available (and they should), otherwise third party solutions will be sought and exercised. Maybe forward that piece to the developers?

I said it before a ton of times and I'll say it again: making 4.11 available because of the flaming pile of garbage that 4.12.X is, is the only viable solution.

All the developers and moderators have to face it; 4.11 was the last solid release compared to 4.12.

The Duplicate Formula error is not new to DS 4.12.x.x, and is accurately reporting an issue (occasioanlly an error in a single product, more usually a conflict between two products). It can't resolve the error (edit: ot rather, it will just go with the first formual - which is, I think, pretty much what you asked for, but that still means that the cntent is not working as intended or that oen of two shapes will not apply correctly, so the report is needed - and the load-speed impact is, as far as I know, unavoidable) - that has to be done with the creator(s) of the product(s), fixing the issue if it's a single product or at least one of them renaming one or more of their properties to eliminate the clash.

Instancng is now fully supported, instead of exploiting a loophole in the code (and occasioanlly causing issues).

Daz cannot fix Iray issues, it has tried to fix an issue on the Daz Studio side and it sounds as if nVidia has made changes that may well help on their side.

And as usual, you miss the entire point of what I'm saying, even though I'm speaking in clear english.  While the duplicate formula is not new to DS (in general), a toggle switch that allows the software to completely ignore it would decrease load times. Did you understand that?  A switch to tell Daz Studio to IGNORE the error and continue.

So no, I didn't ask for the software to go with another formula or ignore the second, i'm asking for a switch to ignore the ENTIRE error and move on, not writing it to log or whatever some such excuse you want to give

This isn't a viable option from a software development standpoint because it would only work to make the origin of such errors impossible to identify - not correct them. And duplicate formular errors are not trivial since they result in the non-functionality of entire features/morphs. Perhaps a more robust duplicate formula error reporting/management mechanism is in order (eg. a popup/modal containing a cumulative list of all conflicting morphs encountered during the current application session along with the ability to selectively choose which ones DS should ignore) so that such errors can be more effectively identified and at least partially mitigated while a fix for the errant installation is incoming. But the solution lies in fixing the underlying errors - not making the software/user completely dumb to what's at fault.

It is. an option toggle switch is viable - on and off. on keeps the errors logged, off doesn't.

RayDAnt said:

 

mathiasdeckman said:

As for as the iray issues; don't shift blame to Nvidia, this fallback thing is on Daz. 4.11 it worked and still works. 4.12 it doesn't, all while Nvidia is cranking out updates.

You don't understand. CPU fallback regarding GPU based rendering isn't now - nor ever has been - a part of the Daz Studio featureset. It is entirely an internal mechanism to Nvidia Iray. Meaning that if behavior with it has changed between Daz Studio versions, the culprit/cause lies entirely within the domain of Iray's developers - not Daz's.

I do understand it. GPU rendering worked fine in 4.9, 4.10 and 4.11, but fails in 4.12. What changed?  I can safetly say it wasn't Nvidia (lots of driver changes), wasn't windows (updates) and hardware changes all the time. So for CPU fallback to be such a collosal issue- something else out of the changing variables had to of changed.

RayDAnt said:

 

mathiasdeckman said:

Instancing was always fully supported- the devs just decided to mess with something that was fine to begin with.

Multi-instancing with prior DS releases was purely fortuitious and resulted in unexpected behavior/crashes under specific use cases. 4.12.1.XXX's adoption of formal multi-instancing mechanisms - while potentially cumbersome to setup/adapt to - eliminate any such issues. Making their creation the correct thing to do from a long-term software development standpoint.

lol. instancing worked fine in 4.9, 4.10, and works well in 4.11- I've had ten open with no issue. I have three open right now. adding multiple steps for the sake of adding steps falls into the category of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Richard Haseltine

IceCrMn said:

Just found the new Scheduling settings. You guys rock!

Thank you :) 

Now I can set load and thread affinity inside Studio and not have to fiddle with the Winows taskmanger or shell scripts to do so.

Here's the short version for the curious. Set the CPU load Limit down 1 click and check the box for "CPU Thread Affinity" and your computer will be much more usable while a render is running or the iray preview is running. 

CPU Load limit is the number of cores your CPU has. Mine has 8 so I set it to 7 and my computer only lets DS use 7 of my 8 cores so I have 1 free core to surf the web and do other stuff with.

Sure my CPU only renders will run 1/8 slower, but I don't care.

The Highlights thread has an explanation now https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/5534391/#Comment_5534391

Richard Haseltine

mathiasdeckman said:

RayDAnt said:

mathiasdeckman said:

Richard Haseltine said:

mathiasdeckman said:

nonesuch00 said:

mathiasdeckman said:

So after several months of waiting for Daz 3D to get Daz Studio 4.12.whatever to work right, I just spent the last two hours reading about all the added features, disabling of multiple instances, all while not being able to fix the CPU fall back problem. Wow.  Here's an idea; look at what you changed from 4.11 to 4.12 and sift through that code, because I have absolutely no problems, and there was another person here, Outrider 42, who had no problems, until you started introducing things without proper testing.

From what I can see, those whom have problems, either have Daz 4.12 and/or Windows 10.  Currently, i'm running Windows 7 Ultimate, Daz 4.11 and have enough hard resources to run up to 10 instances of Daz while 5 of them are rendering out simultaneous 600 DPI images off one Titan.   I did upgrade to daz 4.12 beta.. and way back in the beginning i couldn't save a file worth a damn. I immediately uninstalled Daz 4.12 and went back to 4.11, hoping, for over a year now, that Daz 4.12 would get fixed. Nope, seems the developers are only adding problems while taking out useful features.

At this Rate, I'll never be able to upgrade to 4.12 with all the bad decisions being made.  So push aside the bean counter people, and focus on the main issues plaguing Daz 4.12; the CPU fall back issue. Leave the instances thing alone (you never had a problem with it before until just recently as Outrider42 pointed out- and i'm one who runs multiple sessions each day (with renderings to boot- [and to really blow your mind, I've run multiple computers off a singular daz library that was shared on the network...hows that for pushing the limits; again with no problems] without failure or fault here), and add in a siingular feature that I'm finding others have too- duplicate formulas. A simple 'ignore warning' toggle switch and everything will be fine- since we can't exactly control what or when vendors update their stuff (I've had to fix things myself because of a screwup). I mean, if you can eliminate multiple instances with a singular toggle switch that takes like two lines of code (someone actually stated this in the other thread), then an 'ignore warning' toggle switch will be roughly the same size fix.

Beceause I mean, seriously, 46 pages of beta discussions, the most prevelant being CPU fallback. I say again; what did you change and examine that code. Nvidia drivers were being released justs as quickly with 4.11 as they are with 4.12- and those that stayed on 4.11 have NO ISSUES.

They can't ignore the duplicate ID problem as how would they know that you want the one they chose and not the one they ignored? It would be nice if they desired a GUI to go through and find all duplicate IDs and present them to be chosen to either be renamed or to delete sort of how the G3 to G8 Transfer GUI works.

The duplicate ID is not the same as the duplicate formula. Two entirely different problems; the duplicate ID problem is easy to fix with a script, the duplicate formula isn't. if Daz 3D implimented a feature to 'ignore' the duplicate formula, everything would load fast, regardless of whom was using it.

 

Instancing is somethign Daz can do, and it wasn't primarily about resources but about clean coexistance from my understanding. A lot of the CPU drop-back issues are in the way Iray works, and Daz was precisely zero control of that (they can, and do, report issues to nVidia) - Daz has doen some work on the aspects that they do cotnrol, which should have improved the experience for animators when the first frame would render n CPU and the second dropped to CPU, but - particularly for non-RTX cards - the newer versions of Iray are passing more code to the GPU and so reducing the memory available for scene data.

And yet, I have no problems with iray workings in 4.11, nor did anyone else to this extent with 4.11, 4.10, etc, etc. So what else did the developers change from 4.11 to 4.12? That's the question that needs to be asked.  And instancing was only brought up because they started limiting beta users to singular instances- which got a TON of backlash. So for those who want it back, they roll back. that problem is easily solved. the CPU fallback isn't because it requires going BACK to 4.11, which Daz3D hasn't made available (and they should), otherwise third party solutions will be sought and exercised. Maybe forward that piece to the developers?

I said it before a ton of times and I'll say it again: making 4.11 available because of the flaming pile of garbage that 4.12.X is, is the only viable solution.

All the developers and moderators have to face it; 4.11 was the last solid release compared to 4.12.

The Duplicate Formula error is not new to DS 4.12.x.x, and is accurately reporting an issue (occasioanlly an error in a single product, more usually a conflict between two products). It can't resolve the error (edit: ot rather, it will just go with the first formual - which is, I think, pretty much what you asked for, but that still means that the cntent is not working as intended or that oen of two shapes will not apply correctly, so the report is needed - and the load-speed impact is, as far as I know, unavoidable) - that has to be done with the creator(s) of the product(s), fixing the issue if it's a single product or at least one of them renaming one or more of their properties to eliminate the clash.

Instancng is now fully supported, instead of exploiting a loophole in the code (and occasioanlly causing issues).

Daz cannot fix Iray issues, it has tried to fix an issue on the Daz Studio side and it sounds as if nVidia has made changes that may well help on their side.

And as usual, you miss the entire point of what I'm saying, even though I'm speaking in clear english.  While the duplicate formula is not new to DS (in general), a toggle switch that allows the software to completely ignore it would decrease load times. Did you understand that?  A switch to tell Daz Studio to IGNORE the error and continue.

So no, I didn't ask for the software to go with another formula or ignore the second, i'm asking for a switch to ignore the ENTIRE error and move on, not writing it to log or whatever some such excuse you want to give

This isn't a viable option from a software development standpoint because it would only work to make the origin of such errors impossible to identify - not correct them. And duplicate formular errors are not trivial since they result in the non-functionality of entire features/morphs. Perhaps a more robust duplicate formula error reporting/management mechanism is in order (eg. a popup/modal containing a cumulative list of all conflicting morphs encountered during the current application session along with the ability to selectively choose which ones DS should ignore) so that such errors can be more effectively identified and at least partially mitigated while a fix for the errant installation is incoming. But the solution lies in fixing the underlying errors - not making the software/user completely dumb to what's at fault.

It is. an option toggle switch is viable - on and off. on keeps the errors logged, off doesn't.

The error would still exist, and woudl still have an impact on performance, and users would flood support with tickets saying "DS is slow to load" because they wouldn't get an explanation. To make sure you undrstand, Duplicate Formulas means two different properties have the same name and have a link to a second property with the same name.

For example, PA1 makes a cat figure and names the morph Kitty, they need to adjust the mouth closed morph so they have MCKittyMouthClosedFix with an ERC link between the two (and moouth closed). PA2 has a character named Kitty and names the morph Kitty, and due to her special pout Kitty needs a fix which PA2 calls MCKittyMouthClosedFix  with an ERC link to Kitty and Muth Closed. Now if both are installed there will be duplicate formulas.

mathiasdeckman said:

RayDAnt said:

 

mathiasdeckman said:

As for as the iray issues; don't shift blame to Nvidia, this fallback thing is on Daz. 4.11 it worked and still works. 4.12 it doesn't, all while Nvidia is cranking out updates.

You don't understand. CPU fallback regarding GPU based rendering isn't now - nor ever has been - a part of the Daz Studio featureset. It is entirely an internal mechanism to Nvidia Iray. Meaning that if behavior with it has changed between Daz Studio versions, the culprit/cause lies entirely within the domain of Iray's developers - not Daz's.

I do understand it. GPU rendering worked fine in 4.9, 4.10 and 4.11, but fails in 4.12. What changed?  I can safetly say it wasn't Nvidia (lots of driver changes), wasn't windows (updates) and hardware changes all the time. So for CPU fallback to be such a collosal issue- something else out of the changing variables had to of changed.

Iray is developed by nVidia - the version of iray included with DS has changed (and, especially for non-RTX cards, uses more memory) - hence this is an issue for nVidia (and indeed they have made changes to the version of Iray inclued with this version of DS). Drivers were not the issue being discussed.

mathiasdeckman said:

RayDAnt said:

 

mathiasdeckman said:

Instancing was always fully supported- the devs just decided to mess with something that was fine to begin with.

Multi-instancing with prior DS releases was purely fortuitious and resulted in unexpected behavior/crashes under specific use cases. 4.12.1.XXX's adoption of formal multi-instancing mechanisms - while potentially cumbersome to setup/adapt to - eliminate any such issues. Making their creation the correct thing to do from a long-term software development standpoint.

lol. instancing worked fine in 4.9, 4.10, and works well in 4.11- I've had ten open with no issue. I have three open right now. adding multiple steps for the sake of adding steps falls into the category of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Instancing worked for you. Daz has the support tickets to show that this was not a universal experience. They have now implemented a method of instancing which will still allow you to run ten instances of DS, but withut the potential issues (which you have been fortunate enough to avoid).

PDSmith

and so the whole dropping back to CPU hasn't been completely fixed.

Seriously in Studio 4.9, I can render up to 7 G3F fully dressed, clothed, using Swam and OOT hair and to top it off using a  "Peanterra" forest set, again using Studio 4.9 and I can  do multiple test renders with changing up textures all over the place and not drop to cpu. And by multiple tests I mean 20 to 30 tests.

Dump Studio for a fresh start....

I can do the same with this version of the Studio Beta using 12 V4's, fully dressed, differnet skins, differnet Iray set hair in the same forest set and do maybe 10 or 12 test renders before dropping to CPU.

Dump Studio again for a fresh start (becuase sea-lawyers will say that's the problem, not starting fresh.)

Still using the current Beta..as in the most current release, but the second I use 3...yes thats THREE G3F in the same forest set and boom second test render  and "GPU Temp" says all my cards are offline and I'm back to CPU renders. FYI don't assume, ever, let the facts speak for them selvles.  GPU Temp says the GPU load prior to renders RAM is 10%, load all these scenes and it's 17%, click render and it explodes up to 86%

 Currently I'm also seeing Studio falling back to using my two GTX960's and blowing off my RTX2070 that's an issue that can't be explained right now, and I'll figure out myself but what I'm seeing is Studio is loading up the video card ram with morph data, textures, and a host of other information the V4's do not carry as 'bloat'. This bloat is part of the problem and part of why I sustect  Studio falls back to CPU so readily. 

V4 (and those of the pre-Genesis era) all load faster, scenes ; exclusively v4 based load faster, scenes clear faster, render faster, pose faster. Studio responds faster even with 10 V4's in a scene vice 3 G3F's.

Now how can that be an Nvidia issue? 

 

 

System

CPU 3.50 i7 

32GB Ram

RTX 2070 

GTX 960 (x2) 

Driver version Game Developer : 445.87    Unable to use Studio version due to it does not support anything below GTX 1050

 

 

I do apploaud the current fixes, but it's still not enough.  Octane from what I've seen never once drops to CPU, it in fact rolls over to use system ram to help carry the ram load. And with Disney now signing a contract with OTOY, I'd strongly suggest this might be the way to go to help carry this problem through.

 

 

 

 

mikmod

Richard Haseltine said:

mathiasdeckman said:

RayDAnt said:

mathiasdeckman said:

Richard Haseltine said:

mathiasdeckman said:

nonesuch00 said:

mathiasdeckman said:

Iray is developed by nVidia - the version of iray included with DS has changed (and, especially for non-RTX cards, uses more memory) - hence this is an issue for nVidia (and indeed they have made changes to the version of Iray inclued with this version of DS). Drivers were not the issue being discussed.

Where could I tell the Iray devs about this Skylake-X-on-Windows-7 bug? I'm currently capped to CPU rendering and Octane 2020.1.x, which behaves a bit erratically on latest betas.