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OT - Physical RAM vs Available RAM

SnowSultanSnowSultan Posts: 3,643
edited December 1969 in The Commons

I thought I read a while back that Windows would use part of your RAM automatically, but I'm just wondering if this RAM status is accurate.

I have 12 gigs of physical RAM in 6 slots (2 gig per stick). Can someone tell me why it's only showing 7.99 GB total RAM and then 5.74 GB available? All 6 sticks appear to be working.

Thanks in advance for any information.


SnowS

ram.jpg
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Comments

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    Something doesn't look right there...what does your BIOS say?

    What version of Windows?

  • SnowSultanSnowSultan Posts: 3,643
    edited February 2014

    I've never updated my BIOS because I'm too afraid of screwing something up, but it does detect all 6 sticks. I had to set the voltage manually when I installed them.

    OS is 64-bit Windows 7 Premium, fully updated.

    Post edited by SnowSultan on
  • Subtropic PixelSubtropic Pixel Posts: 2,388
    edited December 1969

    Yes, what version of Windows?

    The windows designers changed their RAM usage methodology with Windows 8 due to prefetching and other memory management techniques, so I don't bother trying to calculate it anymore and I don't worry about how much stuff is loaded (meshes, textures, etc). I just slammed in 64 GB and purposely forgot about it because my time is worth more, life is too short already, and frankly, calculating working memory sizes and private storage just isn't all that exciting anymore. ;-)

    I also don't waste time futzing around with swap/pagefile space. It's on an SSD and it's set up to "Let Windows Decide". Usually, swap space hovers around 16 GB (windows 8 will enlarge AND shrink swap file, the latter was never done by prior versions of Windows). Never a problem on a 256 GB SSD and no noticeable wear on the drive after 14 months of service.

    Build it, install it, and then USE it.

  • Subtropic PixelSubtropic Pixel Posts: 2,388
    edited February 2014

    Hi again, I saw your response.

    Your system is reporting 12288 megabytes, which is indeed 12 GB. It appears that your system sees it all, just maybe not the correct layout of slots.

    "Total Physical" in the bottom part of the display might be "total physical used". Depends on who wrote the code and labels on that display dialogue, the language of that person, and/or how they interpret the meanings (or what the boss told them to code).

    I wouldn't worry too much about it, but if you're curious...what does Windows Performance Monitor or Task Manager tell you?

    Edit: I should have said "Windows Resource Monitor" instead of Perfmon. They are different, and Perfmon does give you a wealth of information, but it can takes a bit of doing to set up and learn to interpret Perfmon graphs.

    Post edited by Subtropic Pixel on
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    Windows 7 Home Basic has an 8 GB limit...you have Premium, so it shouldn't matter.

    But I was asking to see what your BIOS reported as the amount to see if Windows and it agreed.

  • SnowSultanSnowSultan Posts: 3,643
    edited December 1969

    OK, a couple things:

    I just slammed in 64 GB and purposely forgot about it because my time is worth more

    What motherboard do you have that supports 64 GB? I've seen a few, but they're really expensive.


    If my system is detecting all 12 GB, do you know why only 7.99 is showing as the total physical (that pic is from Speccy)? Does Windows automatically take 4 GB for system usage and then the other 2 is being used for other things (like anti-virus, mouse and headphone drivers, etc)?

    I can try another analysis tool if you have any free recommendations.


    Thanks,

    SnowS

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    The built in Windows tools that Subtropical Pixel mentioned.

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 9,680
    edited February 2014

    Just right click on the toolbar in Windows 7 (or press simultaneusly "Ctrl" "Alt" "Delete" keys) and then click on "Start Task Manager".
    Choose "Performance" tab and you will see "Physical Memory (MB)" listed below of that window.
    From that you can click "Resource Monitor" button to see more elaborated status.
    You can read more on memory limits in Windows 7 on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7
    Windows 7 Home Premium has 16 GB of RAM limit.

    Post edited by Artini on
  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,973
    edited February 2014

    Could be disabled RAM:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_GB_barrier#Memory_mapped_I.2FO_and_disabled_RAM

    I had a similar problem with a Windows 8 system which could only see 4 GB of the 8 GB installed. After enabling Memory Remap in BIOS, it can now see and utilize all 8 GB.

    --

    memory_remap.jpg
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    Post edited by Taoz on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,464
    edited December 1969

    SnowSultan said:
    OS is 64-bit Windows 7 Premium, fully updated.

    If that's missing Home then as noted your OS may be limiting you - though I thought it was 16GB, not 8GB, for Home Premium.

  • JonnyRayJonnyRay Posts: 1,744
    edited December 1969

    Windows tools have been notorious about reporting different amounts of memory available in different tools. In addition to the Task Manager / Resource Monitor that others have mentioned, I would also look at the System Information tool (Start - All Programs - Accessories - System Tools). That tool reports from your Windows Management Information (WMI) store; so it should show at a low level what Windows sees.

  • SnowSultanSnowSultan Posts: 3,643
    edited December 1969

    @Artini - Thanks, Task Manager shows 8183 Physical Memory...uhh, that's probably not good. Pic below. :P

    @Taozen - Thanks, I will look into that momentarily.

    @Richard - My Windows 7 supports 16 gig of memory, yes.

    @JohnnyRay - My System Information shows exactly the same numbers that Speccy showed in the first pic (Speccy probably gets the information from there anyway). Odd how the Task Manager shows less.

    ram2.jpg
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  • Takeo.KenseiTakeo.Kensei Posts: 1,303
    edited December 1969

    To me it is as if your system is licenced with a Win 7 Basic or you have a graphic card that uses 4Gb Ram

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    Takeo.Kensei said:
    To me it is as if your system is licenced with a Win 7 Basic or you have a graphic card that uses 4Gb Ram

    My thoughts, too...although, I'm leaning toward 'Basic'.

  • JonnyRayJonnyRay Posts: 1,744
    edited December 1969

    Takeo.Kensei said:
    ...or you have a graphic card that uses 4Gb Ram

    Good point ... SnowSultan, you're not using an "on board" GPU that is integrated into the motherboard are you?
  • SnowSultanSnowSultan Posts: 3,643
    edited December 1969

    My thoughts, too…although, I’m leaning toward ‘Basic’.

    I'm not a total noob. :P It's Home Premiere and can recognize 16 GB. I'm also using a 2 GB graphics card, although for some reason, Speccy is showing it's 4 GB.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    SnowSultan said:
    My thoughts, too…although, I’m leaning toward ‘Basic’.

    I'm not a total noob. :P It's Home Premiere and can recognize 16 GB. I'm also using a 2 GB graphics card, although for some reason, Speccy is showing it's 4 GB.

    Basically the only difference between Basic and Premium is the serial/activation...and I've seen it happen before that what is supposed to be Premium ends up activated as Basic (not often...)

  • SnowSultanSnowSultan Posts: 3,643
    edited December 1969

    That may be, but I've got three windows here telling me it's Windows 7 Home Premium and CPU-Z recognizing that I *should* have 12 GB of RAM installed.

    I'll try checking the individual RAM sticks, updating my ancient BIOS and whatnot once I've backed everything up. Thanks for the information.

  • JonnyRayJonnyRay Posts: 1,744
    edited December 1969

    SnowSultan said:
    That may be, but I've got three windows here telling me it's Windows 7 Home Premium and CPU-Z recognizing that I *should* have 12 GB of RAM installed.

    I'll try checking the individual RAM sticks, updating my ancient BIOS and whatnot once I've backed everything up. Thanks for the information.

    I hesitate to say, since statements like these usually seem to attract Murphy's Law, but updating the BIOS shouldn't be that dangerous anymore. I remember the days when BIOS updates could smoke your motherboard. But I haven't had that issue in quite a while. Curious, what is the motherboard manufacturer?

    I'm assuming based on the discussion so far that this is a "white box" system, not a major manufacturer? I know that HP, Dell, etc. have from time-to-time had OS specific driver update for Windows 7.

  • fixmypcmikefixmypcmike Posts: 19,601
    edited December 1969

    I find it interesting that the graphics card is being reported as using 4GB, the missing amount of RAM.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    fixmypcmike said:
    I find it interesting that the graphics card is being reported as using 4GB, the missing amount of RAM.

    Which is actually a 2 GB card...and it shouldn't be 'eating' that system RAM...unless there are shadow options or remap settings in the BIOS doing it.

  • SnowSultanSnowSultan Posts: 3,643
    edited December 1969

    @JonnyRay - Motherboard is an EVGA X58 3X-SLI. I put the system together, it's the third one I've built and first time I've had these sorts of oddities.

    The graphics card is an Nvidia GForce GTX 760 with 2 GB of RAM, but in Speccy, it lists the RAM as "4294965248 MB". I'm getting different results from different system analysis programs though, so I'm taking all of it with a grain of salt at the moment.

    I needed to back everything up anyway, so I'll keep reading and trying safe methods to figure out what's wrong for now.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    SnowSultan said:
    The graphics card is an Nvidia GForce GTX 760 with 2 GB of RAM, but in Speccy, it lists the RAM as "4294965248 MB". I'm getting different results from different system analysis programs though, so I'm taking all of it with a grain of salt at the moment.

    What does the Nvidia applet say about your card?

    The 760 does come in a 4 GB flavor...and I used to have a mislabled card, myself...it was the 1 GB version instead of the 512 MB one I bought. I checked the chip count and numbers for the vRAM to make sure...and yes, it really was 1 GB, but it was sold/labled and came in the box as a 512 MB card...and no, I never told Newegg that...

  • JonnyRayJonnyRay Posts: 1,744
    edited December 1969

    SnowSultan said:
    @JonnyRay - Motherboard is an EVGA X58 3X-SLI. I put the system together, it's the third one I've built and first time I've had these sorts of oddities.

    You sounded like you knew your way around inside the case. :) Was just wondering to see what options might be available. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like the memory mapping option that Taozen mentioned is in the BIOS/CMOS for the MB.

    Was also looking to see if the MB supported multiple versions of the BIOS or not, but that feature doesn't seem to be there either.

    Have you looked at the EVGA Eleet Utility to see if that might provide some insight?

  • Takeo.KenseiTakeo.Kensei Posts: 1,303
    edited February 2014

    Ok I don't know a lot about recent motherboards, so I may be wrong but is there eventually any option concerning Ram Usage (like dual channel or triple channel or whatever ) that is activated and is incompatible with your current Ram slot usage?

    Post edited by Takeo.Kensei on
  • SnowSultanSnowSultan Posts: 3,643
    edited December 1969

    @mjc - CPU-Z says it's 2GB and the box the card came in says 2GB, so I'm going to have to assume that's right. I'm starting to wonder if Speccy is all that accurate. You have some unfortunate luck with products not being what they're supposed to be though. ;)

    Thanks Jonny, yes the memory mapping option wasn't in this BIOS as far as I can tell (read the manual and checked all the options in BIOS). You know, I don't think I installed that E-LEET utility, will definitely do that before I flash the BIOS. Thanks for reminding me of that. :)

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited February 2014

    SnowSultan said:
    @mjc - CPU-Z says it's 2GB and the box the card came in says 2GB, so I'm going to have to assume that's right. I'm starting to wonder if Speccy is all that accurate. You have some unfortunate luck with products not being what they're supposed to be though. ;)

    Thanks Jonny, yes the memory mapping option wasn't in this BIOS as far as I can tell (read the manual and checked all the options in BIOS). You know, I don't think I installed that E-LEET utility, will definitely do that before I flash the BIOS. Thanks for reminding me of that. :)

    I also ordered a couple of paperback books from Amazon...and got the hardcovers, with a nice note apologizing for the incorrect version being shipped, but they were out of stock and not expecting to be back in until long after Christmas. My daughter was sooooooooo disappointed in that one...

    As to diagnostic tools...I've long ago found that the hardware manufacturer's tools to be more reliable/trustworthy than any generic/Windows/third party ones around.

    So I'd go with Nvidia's report over Speccy's...E-LEET's over the others. Linux ones over Windows ones (Linux uses udev to directly query the hardware itself)...any that use direct queries over those that don't...and so on.

    Post edited by mjc1016 on
  • SnowSultanSnowSultan Posts: 3,643
    edited December 1969

    Here's my current RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145222 (6 sticks, 12 GB worth). Using those settings (9-9-9-24, 9 lat, voltage 1.65, although I've been running it at 1.5 until today, changing to 1.65 did not change anything).

    I think all of the sticks are working because E-LEET and CPU-Z are both showing 12 GB total, Windows even shows 12 GB installed too, but then says there's only 7.99 in total physical memory available with 5.49 free. Could someone refresh my memory as to where memory settings can be adjusted in Win 7? Maybe I did something early on to set aside that memory.


    Thanks for that info mjc, I'll keep it in mind when checking specs.

  • JonnyRayJonnyRay Posts: 1,744
    edited December 1969

    SnowSultan said:
    I think all of the sticks are working because E-LEET and CPU-Z are both showing 12 GB total, Windows even shows 12 GB installed too, but then says there's only 7.99 in total physical memory available with 5.49 free. Could someone refresh my memory as to where memory settings can be adjusted in Win 7? Maybe I did something early on to set aside that memory.

    Other than possibly if your disk controller allows you to allocate additional memory for file system buffering, I can't think of how you could adjust the memory use from within Windows. You can do some adjustments in the boot process. You'd probably remember having done that, though.

    To check for sure, do the following...
    1. Open a command prompt (as Administrator if you still have UAC enabled)
    2. Run the command: bcdedit /enum /v
    3. Check for any settings in regards to memdiag, ramdiskoptions, or badmemory

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,973
    edited December 1969

    Looks like many others are having this problem, maybe there is a solution in this thread:

    http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/265341-30-windows

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