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If I didn't want any criticism I would never have posted these in the first place. So please tear the model apart with anything that might pop out as weird-looking. It's been very useful, I made several improvements thanks to the feedback here.
The glute keeping its shape while the leg is up is by design. I made it that way so it can be edited afterwards by simply moving the glute in a more natural position. See here for an example where I translate the glute manually to make it have a more squished look while sitting: https://imgur.com/a/URrExcV
The overall look of the figure with its ridiculously large hips and ass is because I'm planning on doing non-PBR renders. The 2D look washes a lot of the detail so what proportions might look absurd in 3D when translated to 2D they look a lot more normal.
I see and get what you are going for. Maybe a few of us looking at these images and animations would love to see something come out of your project that could be used in our own work, not necessarily for stylised characters such as yours but applying your techniques to regular characters. Perhaps you might think again about some kind of add-on?
Attached some test renders. Some Photoshop postwork like the blur effect and the heavy black outlines.
3Delight with a custom shader. It would be neat if I could do outlines within the shader as well but Daz can't do single-sided polygons.
test render
the shadows might need toning down
Are those rather angular black outlines deliberate or are they just the way the render comes out?
How'd you make the shader? There might still be a way to do it (edge detection / perpendicular normals is the usual Toon Outline method).
test render
the shadows might need toning down
Those are hand drawn. I do like spiky heavy outlines but did overdo it. They follow the musculature so there's a logic behind the spikes but it does seem too much. Attached an updated version with smoother features, fixed bony hand, weaker shadows, and better outlines.
It's really basic. It mimics my workflow for coloring in Photoshop. There's no problem with adding extra stuff over it. I do have a way of controlling the line-weight by using a fitted duplicate figure on the original figure with special morphs. The issue here is that I need the process to the iterative and going that route I will have to create the outlines for each piece of clothing. Then there's the risk of the end result not looking as good as hand-drawn outlines.
I've seen that used in Anim8or, and for that matter, there are or were some shaders to go with the Manga Shader Set (it might still be in the store) for doing just this kind of outline. What one needs is a double-sided shader that's opaque on the backfacing polygons and all-but-invisible or completely so in the front. Then make a Geometry Shell (there's your "fitted duplicate" generated automatically) and apply the outline shader to the shell before render.
There's a free (and improved) version of that Geometry Shell Outline shader available from the official support thread for Visual Style/Manga Style.
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/10961/manga-style-visual-style-topic-update-sept-23rd-2017-fixed-dropbox-links-commercial/p1
If I remember correctly, @GiGi_7 was the one who figured out how to recreate the classic "inverted mesh outline" effect in Shader Builder, and they were kind enough to share their knowledge with me so that I could get it working in Shader Mixer.
They did a lot of really awesome experiments with toon shading years ago, which you can see here: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/20283/gilikshe-renders-playing-with-shaders/p1
Not exactly figure creation but I've been spending a lot of time on getting the look that I wanted. Figured out a way to edit the normals so as to better control the shapes of the shadows. The inner lines and outer lines are a combination of the hull method + toon effect.
Sorry, forgot the gif don't animate, link: https://imgur.com/a/cA9VPDJ
a lot of hard work. good job
This is a really great work!
You mentioned the rig has 290 bones, does this number include all the bones or only the deformation ones? And are you counting the simmetric bones twice (I mean, if you have a lCollar and rCollar for example, are you counting it twice or once)?
The entire thing has 375 in total bones now. The face is rigged as well which makes up for half, if not more. The figure also has a FACS-based facial control which is a bone set-up in of itself. It can easily be made into a game-ready figure.
Thank you for the info, you have got some beautiful results
a test render
...
Fantastic!
Just a curiosity, why haven't you used other softwares such as Blender? Wouldn't it be easier and faster to create an entire character there?
The model was created with Modo and ZBrush. Then rigged in Daz Studio. Daz has some prety unique tools for character creation and I don't think I could have achieved the same results in any other program. In theory it should be possible but even AAA studios didn't amanage to get even similar results and they have decades of experience in software packages like Maya and 3dsmax.
That's very cool, I didn't know that Daz had such amazing tools, I will check those out!
Thats a cool style. It reminds me of the style of those ancient Greek vases with the figures painted on them.
No. Please understand I have done extensive research on this topic and any link or video that just pops up on a basic search is something I have already checked out. I have only found 3 other sources which got the same idea as me. One is a dissertation paper which just talks about it in theory, and the others are 2 youtube videos with just a couple hundred views each. One of them applied the technique in Modo, the other in 3dsmax. They never got to where I am because Daz has unique tools as if created for this sort of thing.
You're looking at morph targets/ blendshapes (https://vimeo.com/157992898). Pose space deformation is a pretty old trick for Daz and Poser, it's just JCM's. AAA studios are now implementing it because they finally have the processing power to do it in real-time. Understand that game engines now can't even handle Daz's TriAx weight system which was and is far more advanced than anything that's currently used by any studio. Poser's proprietary weight-map system is more advance still.
Kratos from the new God of War game uses this pose-space deformation technique. The downside of this is that you need a ton of blendshapes for each character. Dozens of people worked on Kratos' model alone.
My method uses zero morph torgets/JCM's/blendshapes, which is something I mentioned before. Meaning it's an iterative base model which can be morphed into any sort of character without losing the realistic real-time muscle deformation. It can also be morphed into a dog if you have the patience. You don't have to model the blendshapes over and over again for each character. All you need is to create a fullbody morph for the new character itself and everything else is ready to go.
The Houdini demo looks terrible, mine doesn't. Check out Kratos' model to see actual good muscle deformation using JCM's:
(timestamp: 53:40)
AAA refers to the gaming industry which is a bigger industry that the movies and tv-shows. As far as performance goes my figure uses less bones than kratos, a similar vert count (I have a 15k version and a 45k version, Kratos being somewhere inbetween), and has a full-body rig (unlike Kratos which only has the top half).
Game studios have been doing things a certain way for decades and everyone working in the industry are used to doing things that certain way. The asset creation pipelines are basically work-arounds for hardware limitations. When I started working on this I didn't have the same limiations which is why I was able to make something new.
If there's a will there's a way. Genesis figure integration into asset pipelines has alread been done by Daz but abandoned for some reason: https://forums.unrealengine.com/community/general-discussion/49095-morph3d-daz3d-is-getting-into-video-game-character-creation
Why do you say much more? What is better in Houdini's take?
I am really interested .. what tools do you use that are unique to daz studio ?
Same here. I tried to do a research on the tools offered by Daz, but found sparse info here and there
It's the ease of use Daz has above all else. Its design philosophy was to be able to be used by people with zero knowledge of 3D work. Everything is user friendly though behind its interface lies a similar complexity to that of any other 3D package. The amount of knowledge and work it takes to unite 2 rigged models into one is shocking for a Daz user who does it by the press of a button.
My favorite is Adjust Rigging to Shape. Having used other 3D packages it shocks me how well Daz does it and I only have to press a button. Can it be done in other programs? Yes. Can it be done in other programs in under 10 seconds? Absolutely not. I have a male and female version of my figure. I estimated it would take me around 2 weeks to properly transfer the rig. I didn't even considered that Adjust Rigging to Shape would help, I don't believe in magic. I just tried it for kicks and literally yelled out loud when I saw 99% of the job was done.
The same goes for most of Daz's tools, one of which is the Propriety Hierarchy. The ease of use allowed me to experiment easily and get instant results. If I were to do something like this in 3dsmax I would have needed to learn how to code, I would need to use several scripts, plug-ins, etc. If I had to worry of the technical aspect of the program, like whether this line of code is compatible with so and so version of the program, I doubt I would've gotten to where I am now. Even how stable the porgram is amazes me.
Keep in mind I'm just one guy. I only have a few years of 3D experience. This started as a side hobby and only got really into it 2 years ago. I'm no genius, I don't know how to code and I'm not an industry professional. My thing was trial and error and with Daz I was able to make tons of mistakes but in a relatively short period of time.