Muscle-Based Deformation take 2

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Comments

  • PadonePadone Posts: 3,778
    edited April 2020
    My favorite is Adjust Rigging to Shape.

    Yes the genesis platform is quite unique in this aspect. In other packages it is not so easy to make a rig that adjust itself to different figure shapes during an animation session. For example a human turning into a warewolf while fighting.

    On the other side daz studio has so many other limitations that overall it's not worth it for animation yet. For just a few the ik system is trivial and buggy at this time and you can't animate materials. Plus physics and fx are absolutely basic or non-existent. Also some features are locked to PAs that's not good to "common" users.

    But I see they're doing a lot of work lately to improve animation features so there's hope.

    Post edited by Padone on
  • wolf359wolf359 Posts: 3,834
    Padone said:
    My favorite is Adjust Rigging to Shape.

    On the other side daz studio has so many other limitations that overall it's not worth it for animation yet. For just a few the ik system is trivial and buggy at this time and you can't animate materials. Plus physics and fx are absolutely basic or non-existent. Also some features are locked to PAs that's not good to "common" users.

    <

    Agree Completely
  • return0return0 Posts: 27
    Padone said:
    My favorite is Adjust Rigging to Shape.

    Yes the genesis platform is quite unique in this aspect. In other packages it is not so easy to make a rig that adjust itself to different figure shapes during an animation session. For example a human turning into a warewolf while fighting.

    On the other side daz studio has so many other limitations that overall it's not worth it for animation yet. For just a few the ik system is trivial and buggy at this time and you can't animate materials. Plus physics and fx are absolutely basic or non-existent. Also some features are locked to PAs that's not good to "common" users.

    But I see they're doing a lot of work lately to improve animation features so there's hope.

    Yeah, Adjust Rigging to Shape is a very neat feature

  • return0return0 Posts: 27

    Reading the description of your technique, and looking at the videos you have posted, I get that you are using additional bones for each bulge you want to add to the character.

    Did you set the rotation, translation and scale of each bulge bone for every pose of the character? For example, for arm bent 90° degrees upwards, you set the rotation (plus translation and scale) and freeze the value, is that right?

  • return0return0 Posts: 27

    Another thing I noticed is that there is some stretching going on, maybe with this method it is not possible to implement a form of skin sliding?

  • return0return0 Posts: 27
    return0 said:
    wolf359 said:
    return0 said:

    Fantastic!

    Just a curiosity, why haven't you used other softwares such as Blender? Wouldn't it be easier and faster to create an entire character there?

    The model was created with Modo and ZBrush. Then rigged in Daz Studio. Daz has some prety unique tools for character creation and I don't think I could have achieved the same results in any other program. In theory it should be possible but even AAA studios didn't amanage to get even similar results and they have decades of experience in software packages like Maya and 3dsmax.

     

    False. .. ..AAA studios have a acheived these results and much MUCH, more check 3:09 into this video

    Why do you say much more? What is better in Houdini's take?

    Again, it would be interesting to know in what aspects is Houdini's take better, some constructive criticism is always useful

  • Faux2DFaux2D Posts: 452
    return0 said:

    Reading the description of your technique, and looking at the videos you have posted, I get that you are using additional bones for each bulge you want to add to the character.

    Did you set the rotation, translation and scale of each bulge bone for every pose of the character? For example, for arm bent 90° degrees upwards, you set the rotation (plus translation and scale) and freeze the value, is that right?

    Not exactly. The figure is dynamic so those adjustements are done automatically. They can be modified after posing of course but it's not necessary. Turning off limits on joints and then posing will require some post work (very little because 90-95% of the work is already done) but you'll get more flexibility in the range of poses you can create.

  • return0return0 Posts: 27
    edited May 2020

    Maybe I wasn't very clear in my question. What I meant was, do you fix each bulge bone rotation, location and scale as a function of the control bones, like DAZ does with JCMs? So that, for example, every time the arm is bent the arm bulge bones will animate automatically based on the control bone rotations? So you are effectively  using bones in place of the JCMs? I'm asking this because it would be interesting to know how much work it would require to set up a rig like this, compared to one based on JCMs.

    edit: I'm referring to JCJs

    Post edited by return0 on
  • Faux2DFaux2D Posts: 452
    return0 said:

    edit: I'm referring to JCJs

    Yes, that's exactly what I'm using: JCJ's.

    There was a ton of trial and error work put into it however thanks to the "Adjust Rigging to Shape" tool it only takes 1 minute to transfer all that work to another chararacter.

  • return0return0 Posts: 27

    Very ingenious! Especially considering that this way is way faster to tweak the deformations and it should be easier to simulate the muscle dynamics.

    Technically it should be possible to simulate skin sliding over muscles with the same technique, unless DAZ has a sort of shrinkwrap modifier?

  • Faux2DFaux2D Posts: 452
    return0 said:

    Technically it should be possible to simulate skin sliding over muscles with the same technique, unless DAZ has a sort of shrinkwrap modifier?

    Daz has a Smoothing Modifier which does something similar. Its main use is to fix poke-throughs on tight clothing. It's unusable as a skin deformer for underlying muscles but it has the same algorithm.

    My issue with skinwrap modifiers and simulated muscles is that I didn't find one single example that's similar to what I had in mind. All examples are of monsters, animals, or cartooony people. I just wanted to see it used on an aesthetically pleasing human base mesh. Each time those techniques were used to create humans the end result always looked off. The muscle rig by itself looked great but when skin was placed on top it just looked weird. My rig still has some weird deformations however because everything is in real-time I can also edit it quickly in real-time without having the constantly redo the simulation.

  • return0return0 Posts: 27

    Yeah, I agree that simulation approaches are still a no-go as far as iteration is concerned

  • Wow... this has been a fascinating read!  Hats off to you Faux... what you are doing is absolutely incredible.  I am sure that there are a bunch like me that are waiting for you to get to the "shut up and take my money" stage!

    Cheers!

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