Product Cross Gender/Transgender -Transfer morphs (feature suggestions)

CGI3DM

I have been asked for a gender crossing product(develoment) from male to female and viceversa.

Among the uses that can be given to the product, is to make male versions of exclusively female characters.

Currently only transfer the morph you choose to the other genre (same generation G8 to M8 and M8 to G8)

What other characteristics should it have?

It only includes bone adjustment, and clothing (basic).
Does not include JCM, skins (UV),expressions and geometry corrections (nipples).

 

 

 

And finally with the combination of Shape Splitter/X-morphs can be mixed in several ways.

 

Leonides02

I'd buy this the moment it showed up in the store. 

All the other characteristics you mentioned it won't have are the only things I can think it would need. However, I understand implementing these are all but impossible.

Havos

The promos might look better if the male and female version were rendered with the same skin by using this: https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-8-uv-swap-male-and-female-base

 

Phoenix1966

Havos said:

The promos might look better if the male and female version were rendered with the same skin by using this: https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-8-uv-swap-male-and-female-base

 

Since the creator said this product won't convert skins, I suspect the choice was intentional so that what people see is what they get with the product.

CGI3DM

Leonides02 said:

I'd buy this the moment it showed up in the store. 

All the other characteristics you mentioned it won't have are the only things I can think it would need. However, I understand implementing these are all but impossible.

I would like to know what uses they would give the product and thus be able to work on those characteristics.
If most users only want to mix certain parts of the body (using X-morphs), dividing them would again lose those characteristics (JCM and UVs).
And in some cases they would not be necessary, for example, if you want to keep all the JCMs on the side of the man you would only have to transfer the face of Genesis Female and apply a negative morph, and they would have all the JCMs of the body.
To transfer the skins, products from the DAZ store (https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-8-uv-swap-male-and-female-base) could be used, so it would not include it, and in the same way if it is required to mix the UV (Female-Male) it would be more complicated, since the divisions are made with Shape Spliter / X -morphs.

CGI3DM

Phoenix1966 said:

Havos said:

The promos might look better if the male and female version were rendered with the same skin by using this: https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-8-uv-swap-male-and-female-base

 

Since the creator said this product won't convert skins, I suspect the choice was intentional so that what people see is what they get with the product.

Yes, as a product already exists, I can devote more time to other features

Hurdy3D

This product would be a small time saver for me.

I can do what that product does easily with the Transfer-Tool. I would propably buy it, after it's still a small time-safer.

To make it really valuable you should consider to support JCM and MCM (and on X-Shapes, too) and to add a nipple fix morph which can be manually triggered. Doing such a morph should be not too hard with Blender.

One issue I've is the different height and popertions of a male and female body when I split them. I did some adjustment morphs to give them the same height, make the waist on the same position and also make the arms the same length.
It would be awesome if this script could generate such adjustments morphs automatically, so that we could bringt the male and female version for x-shape on the same height and body proportions.

I now x-shape has some offset for this, but that never worked well for me.

Hurdy3D

Oh... and an other big issue for me is, that the feed posititoin change, if you trigger in the cross conder clone morph.

That because of the different bone strucuture of the feet and hips.

A solution for that would be alsy very very valueable (e.g. for animtions).

 

plasma_ring

This is extremely exciting! The tutorial you provided in this suggestion thread worked perfectly for my purposes and made it very easy to split the morphs, thank you so much. I don't know if I'm in the minority in needing to split in pieces, so I'm interested to hear which features would be best for other people. :D I'll buy it regardless!

CGI3DM

gerster said:

This product would be a small time saver for me.

I can do what that product does easily with the Transfer-Tool. I would propably buy it, after it's still a small time-safer.

To make it really valuable you should consider to support JCM and MCM (and on X-Shapes, too) and to add a nipple fix morph which can be manually triggered. Doing such a morph should be not too hard with Blender.

One issue I've is the different height and popertions of a male and female body when I split them. I did some adjustment morphs to give them the same height, make the waist on the same position and also make the arms the same length.
It would be awesome if this script could generate such adjustments morphs automatically, so that we could bringt the male and female version for x-shape on the same height and body proportions.

I now x-shape has some offset for this, but that never worked well for me.

In the case of MCM and JCM, have you used negative morphs?
For example in this image, the body retains all MCM and JCM, detail HD, because only the head is affected.

 

Here link Shape Splitter/X-morphs:

 

Will you have some example images (problems) for the case of the waist and arms?

CGI3DM

gerster said:

Oh... and an other big issue for me is, that the feed posititoin change, if you trigger in the cross conder clone morph.

That because of the different bone strucuture of the feet and hips.

A solution for that would be alsy very very valueable (e.g. for animtions).

 

Do you have some sample images/video?

Hurdy3D

The head trick does not work if you do slow transformations, body part by body part.

If you do Male2Female transformation comics or animations it's very common that you transfer a full g8m body to a g8f and split these morphs in a lot of small sub morphs (e.G. Head, right arm right hand, left arm, left hand, upper chest without breast, breasts, waist, legs, foots) and use these morphs in any order you like a achive a detailed full male to female transformation.

I can do the requested sample images, but that's lot of work and will take time.

Paradigm

Is this supposed to be a morph kit or something? Because a trans M->F does exist:

 

https://www.renderhub.com/ion/chrissy-transgender-character-for-genesis-8-male

I'm fairly certain its SFW.

Hurdy3D

Paradigm said:

Is this supposed to be a morph kit or something? Because a trans M->F does exist:

I'm fairly certain its SFW.

This will be a script that's allows you to transfer any G8M form to a G8F and vice versa.

That's something you can already do with Transer Utility, but I think the idea of that script CGI3DM thinks to will make that progress easier.

CGI3DM

Ok, X-Morphs doesn't include JCM and MCM because these controller could be duplicated, precisely because of the huge variety of combinations.

The images were only for the problems of the arms and waist that you commented, because I had no knowledge of it.

Paradigm

gerster said:

Paradigm said:

Is this supposed to be a morph kit or something? Because a trans M->F does exist:

I'm fairly certain its SFW.

This will be a script that's allows you to transfer any G8M form to a G8F and vice versa.

That's something you can already do with Transer Utility, but I think the idea of that script CGI3DM thinks to will make that progress easier.

Im always supportive of stuff to make things simpler! I'd say a quarter of what I buy is utilities.

CGI3DM

Since I released X-Morphs I have always been asked for a product that allows transferring morphs from one genre to another. And this is very common also see it in the forums. And it has not all work properly for the transfer utility.

 

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/360651/how-to-convert-a-g8m-character-to-g8f

Leonides02

I would like to know what uses they would give the product and thus be able to work on those characteristics.

For me:

1) The ability to apply opposite-sex genitals. Don't know if that is possible.

2) More critically: The ability to morph different parts of the body at different rates. 

CGI3DM

gerster said:

Oh... and an other big issue for me is, that the feed posititoin change, if you trigger in the cross conder clone morph.

That because of the different bone strucuture of the feet and hips.

A solution for that would be alsy very very valueable (e.g. for animtions).

 

Here it is with movement, I await your comments.

 

CGI3DM

Leonides02 said:

I would like to know what uses they would give the product and thus be able to work on those characteristics.

For me:

1) The ability to apply opposite-sex genitals. Don't know if that is possible.

2) More critically: The ability to morph different parts of the body at different rates. 

I don't know how genitals work on genesis figures, but here is a video of the transformation.
To divide certain parts of the body, it would have to be done with X-Morphs(feet, hands,head, nipples, nose, mouth, ears, nails,torso,legs,etc.) And each one could have their own animation

 

CGI3DM

plasma_ring said:

This is extremely exciting! The tutorial you provided in this suggestion thread worked perfectly for my purposes and made it very easy to split the morphs, thank you so much. I don't know if I'm in the minority in needing to split in pieces, so I'm interested to hear which features would be best for other people. :D I'll buy it regardless!

I'm glad it works

LenioTG

Yes, I'd buy it for sure as well! :)

Gordig

I don’t know how possible this would be, but the only real use case for something like this that I can see for myself would be the ability to gender-swap creatures while retaining their basic shape, e.g. making a feminized version of Crypto Alien. 

Hurdy3D

I found some time to anaylize the issue with the moving feets when doing gender transformations.

It looks like that this is not caused by the clone morphs, but by a height morphs which is often used in combination with gender transformation.

A good example is the height morph from G8 Female Body Morph:

https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-8-female-body-morphs

If you trigger this morph, you see how the position of the feet and legs is moving.

A very usefull product for height transformations would be a script that allows you to save the hip and legs position. Than you apply the height morph and run the script, which would adjust the legs in a way that they match with saved position, after applying the height morph.
This could maybe your next product, after the Cross Gender one :)

CGI3DM

Gordig said:

I don’t know how possible this would be, but the only real use case for something like this that I can see for myself would be the ability to gender-swap creatures while retaining their basic shape, e.g. making a feminized version of Crypto Alien. 

Here several female versions of Plague Wolf

LenioTG

Is this still in development?

My dream would be to set a full-body (or even partial body) shape, that includes the dozens of morphs that a character has, and transfer it gradually to a figure of the other sex, with a slider.

For example, this is already achievable for the skin, with Skin Blender, which is a wonderful product.

Nowadays the whole process is long, complex and it doesn't give perfect results.

CGI3DM

Yes, in development.

It would be helpful to post some images where you have problems. So I can see where I can add useful features to the tool.

And there would be only one slider, which would already have the Clone (male-female) and the bone adjustment, which would easily make a transition.

For partial bodies, the Shape Splitter would have to be used to divide the parts.

LenioTG

CGI3DM said:

Yes, in development.

It would be helpful to post some images where you have problems. So I can see where I can add useful features to the tool.

And there would be only one slider, which would already have the Clone (male-female) and the bone adjustment, which would easily make a transition.

For partial bodies, the Shape Splitter would have to be used to divide the parts.

That's great to hear! :D

No problem, I had bought the Shape Splitter, I've not understood how to use it yet, but I guess with the single full-body morph to split it will be easier!

For us TG stories creators, there are three possible situations:

• The male/female slowly changes gender. This is by far the most common situation.

For this situation, it would be great to separately create the G8M and the G8F, and to have a single slider that's able to slowly and precisely switch between the two figures.

I've heard that creators who work with G2/G3 use GenX2, and that makes their work much faster.
But who's started in the last 2/3 years is probably using G8, and for us there's not an equivalent. I've heard that the creator of GenX2 is not on this world anymore, so no hopes of seeing an update.
If we had knows earlier, we would have started with G3, but at this point, after thousands of bucks invested in G8, it's not doable to just convert thousands of products.

Someone gave us hope with a free morph translator, but after months of waiting it was not useful at all.
That tool, whose name I can't recall, was pretty slow, and it had to transfer each morph individually, while a G8M usually has dozens of morphs, and a G8F can get to hundreds of them.

I know how to create a full-body morph with a single slider, but I don't do that, because it fills up my library, because I can't easily take it with me when I have to switch PCs, and because, most importantly, the middle part of the transformation looks too much like the standard G8F/M.

Indeed, it's already possible to just export the shape preset of the G8M, apply it to the G8F, with the clone slider that's available with many products (I use one for clothes transferring, but there's also a freebie on DeviantArt and the hidden parameter of Daz itself), and it'll look exactly like the starting G8M.

The problem is that I won't see the morphs that have composed that new shape, and so I'll have to export several shapes presets, for each stage of the transformation, and I'll have to "eye measure" what amount of transformation is required.
This solves the genitals problem to me: you can use the opposite figure directly, or the product Futalicious from another website.

Furthermore, while I'm reducing each morph of the G8M and transferring the shapes (boring and long process, but it's what I currently do), I come to the point where there is almost no G8M shape left, and the G8F one is too slight, so, except for the skin (I use Skin Blender), it looks exactly like the standard figure, and that's not ideal.

• The figure acquires a single characteristic, like a change of height or the appearance of breasts.

For this situation, it's not that hard to work with the currently available tools. The only problem is to make that change exactly as it will be in the final character.

• Just a part of the figure's body is changed.

I'm not able to do that right now, so I zoom on a single part, and zoom on the other ones only when it's their time to change.

 

Since we're here, another wish of mine would be to let the clothes keep their original size while the figure transforms and often shrinks.
I know how to do that, but the process I use is painful.
Maybe with this new way of doing things it'll be faster and easier to rig (or how it's called) the OBJ piece of clothing to the character?

The words "faster" and "easier" are not there by chance.
I think we're not lazy, but the problem is that complex new methods require days of learning, and we often have Patreons that are waiting for the new update.
For most of us, this is a side-job, and so it's not easy to find the time to learn and use long and complex methods of doing things, and for others it's their main job, so they usually have a very busy schedule of creating massive amounts of content.

 

So yes, I guess it would be a dream to just set the starting G8M, with all its morphs together, set the final G8F, and create a slider to swap between the two at will, with precision and ease of use.

 

I'm glad to give you any more insight you might need, even on Discord.
If you want, I can show you tons of examples of transformations nowadays, so you can see the problem with your developer's eyes.
Thanks for working on this!

Hurdy3D

My pain point for doing TG transformations are:

• To get the best result with Shape Splitter I have to bring the target and source figure at the same height and similar lengt of arms and legs. I've created some custom morphs for that.
• I use the  height morph from "G8 Female Body Morphs" to shrink the figure. That morph is not part of the split, I use the orginal height morph separatly. But all height morphs cause to change the bone structure on the pelvis and legs and the pose is changing. That's a little bit annyoing, when doing a shrink scene and I want to keep the feet on the same position.
• Shape Splitter does not support JCM and MCM (and will propably not, as you said).
• Doing skin transformations is a real pain.
• No HD support (I know... because of DAZ...)

I don't think that this product will help with any of my main pain points, but I think it will be usefull, because it makes on step of doing TG transformations more easy.

CGI3DM

Thanks for the information gerster,LenioTG , review the points exposed.

 

 

emoryahlberg

I, too, am eagerly looking forward to this product.