Alternative to J.Cade's Painter's Lights?

Richard Haseltine

j cade said:

Heyyyy! So Caronavirus is good for getting back into home based hobbies

So the lightset was, as someone showed, based on 2 parts: the lights and then the environments. The environments are where a lot of the characteristic look is from IMO, and its actually dead simple. They were primarily 2x2pixel images of flat colors (mostly very neutral tones) creating a wash of ambent light, in much the same way ambient lights worked back in the ole 3delight days (technically some of them actually used sunsky but with the sun basically turned off again creating a neutral wash of light)

The light sets mostly emulated 3-point lighting wich you can find lots af articles about online (with the environment serving the function of the fill light) I don't have any books on lighting, I've just stared at a looooot of paintings. Main idea: two big photometric lights one infront of the figure one behind both higher than the figures head and angled downward. The other detail was I added in a small light at roughly eye hight with very low strength as it could generally be counted on to reflect in the figure's eye

For the record, I dont actually use my light presets all that much anymore (mainly I swear that multiple smaller photometric lights tend to clear up faster than single big ones) the environments I still use pretty frequently though, and you can 100% make them for yourself in ms paint,

Multiple small lights probably would converge more quickly as fewer areas are being lit indiectly. Iray is much more efficient with direct light than with bounce light.

XtraDimensional

J cade! Oh, my goodness! I'm so glad you're okay! Please say you're back? You have been MISSED!

fastbike1

If one is after "Rembrandt" lighting in paticular, the defining characteristic is the triangular shadow (cast by the nose) on the cheek. You will need the key light at a sufficient angle to the face to create that shadow. You are trying to create the effect of light coming through a window on the character's side with the character more or less facing the painter. You do not want such an acute angle as to cast the entire off side of the face in shadow. You can use fill light on the "shadow" side by that is tricker to get right than just having the correct angle foe the key light. Lots of tutorials available.

FWIW, Fabiana's lights and included HDRIs are worth the money. They are not on sale very often so be prepared to wait or just pony up the price.

daveso

tsroemi_de848f77ba said:

Thanks again for the opinions and suggestions everyone, this is really helpful! I found Fabiana‘s lights, they look stunning and indeed very painterly, so to speak. I saw two sets actually - Theory of Light Energy Flow and ToL Zen Moods - I guess the Energy Flow one is the ‚original‘ one, but they both look gorgeous. But man, these are expensive! Will have to wait a while until I can get them.

I also looked at Paper Tiger‘s sets but got kind of confused there because there were just so many of them! I wouldn‘t know which one to choose really. They all look stunning though.

Probably I should start out with the Neon Splash set here at DAZ next time it‘s on sale. I did send a suggestion to DAZ anyway to try and buy the original Painter‘s Lights, and also opened a thread in the PA product suggestion forum. If there are any more suggestions on how to create a painterly render atmosphere, please keep them coming, they‘re much appreciated!

Her store goes on sale quite a bit ...  

Rain

Divamakeup said:

Yeah, I'm kicking myself for not picking up J.Cade's Painters Lights when they were available. They were on my wish list but they got removed from the store before I could purchase them. As for alternatives, I've heard a lot of good things about BOSS Pro Light Set. I don't own it myself but have heard quite a few people recommend it. I can also recommend (shameless plug incoming lol) my own light set - not just because I made it but because I use it for almost all my renders. 

I really like your lights and appreciate all the things you included with the set.  Easy to use with great results.  Thank you.

3Diva

spuffy said:

Divamakeup said:

Yeah, I'm kicking myself for not picking up J.Cade's Painters Lights when they were available. They were on my wish list but they got removed from the store before I could purchase them. As for alternatives, I've heard a lot of good things about BOSS Pro Light Set. I don't own it myself but have heard quite a few people recommend it. I can also recommend (shameless plug incoming lol) my own light set - not just because I made it but because I use it for almost all my renders. 

I really like your lights and appreciate all the things you included with the set.  Easy to use with great results.  Thank you.

That's great to hear! I'm really glad you like the set! :D

tsroemi

j cade said:

Heyyyy! So Caronavirus is good for getting back into home based hobbies

So the lightset was, as someone showed, based on 2 parts: the lights and then the environments. The environments are where a lot of the characteristic look is from IMO, and its actually dead simple. They were primarily 2x2pixel images of flat colors (mostly very neutral tones) creating a wash of ambent light, in much the same way ambient lights worked back in the ole 3delight days (technically some of them actually used sunsky but with the sun basically turned off again creating a neutral wash of light)

The light sets mostly emulated 3-point lighting wich you can find lots af articles about online (with the environment serving the function of the fill light) I don't have any books on lighting, I've just stared at a looooot of paintings. Main idea: two big photometric lights one infront of the figure one behind both higher than the figures head and angled downward. The other detail was I added in a small light at roughly eye hight with very low strength as it could generally be counted on to reflect in the figure's eye

For the record, I dont actually use my light presets all that much anymore (mainly I swear that multiple smaller photometric lights tend to clear up faster than single big ones) the environments I still use pretty frequently though, and you can 100% make them for yourself in ms paint,

How cool is this, thanks so much for showing up!! Thanks also for the explanations on how you set up the lights, I will give it a try. It‘s just that I always take ages fumbling with lights, and the results are mediocre at best. And since I don‘t have all that much time I can spend on playing with 3D, I usually depend on someone else doing the lighting work for me, so I can get to the render faster ... 

Sooooo ... are there any plans on a relaunch of the Painter‘s Lights ... maybe ....??? (I‘m crossing my fingers SO HARD here!)

Asari

melissastjames said:

tsroemi_de848f77ba said:

Thanks again for the opinions and suggestions everyone, this is really helpful! I found Fabiana‘s lights, they look stunning and indeed very painterly, so to speak. I saw two sets actually - Theory of Light Energy Flow and ToL Zen Moods - I guess the Energy Flow one is the ‚original‘ one, but they both look gorgeous. But man, these are expensive! Will have to wait a while until I can get them.

I also looked at Paper Tiger‘s sets but got kind of confused there because there were just so many of them! I wouldn‘t know which one to choose really. They all look stunning though.

Probably I should start out with the Neon Splash set here at DAZ next time it‘s on sale. I did send a suggestion to DAZ anyway to try and buy the original Painter‘s Lights, and also opened a thread in the PA product suggestion forum. If there are any more suggestions on how to create a painterly render atmosphere, please keep them coming, they‘re much appreciated!

I get asked constantly about what lighting I use in my portraits and nine times out of ten, my answer is Fabiana's Energy Flow. 

I second this. I don't have Energy Flow but the Zen Moods pack and this is the best HDRI set I have for Studio setup lights. I have tested a lot of HDRI lights and I always reach out for this one for close ups. I like them for the soft and balanced look they create. Also, they are easy to setup for a 3 point light setting. They work well with other lights combined in one scene.

tsroemi

Asari said:

melissastjames said:

tsroemi_de848f77ba said:

Thanks again for the opinions and suggestions everyone, this is really helpful! I found Fabiana‘s lights, they look stunning and indeed very painterly, so to speak. I saw two sets actually - Theory of Light Energy Flow and ToL Zen Moods - I guess the Energy Flow one is the ‚original‘ one, but they both look gorgeous. But man, these are expensive! Will have to wait a while until I can get them.

I also looked at Paper Tiger‘s sets but got kind of confused there because there were just so many of them! I wouldn‘t know which one to choose really. They all look stunning though.

Probably I should start out with the Neon Splash set here at DAZ next time it‘s on sale. I did send a suggestion to DAZ anyway to try and buy the original Painter‘s Lights, and also opened a thread in the PA product suggestion forum. If there are any more suggestions on how to create a painterly render atmosphere, please keep them coming, they‘re much appreciated!

I get asked constantly about what lighting I use in my portraits and nine times out of ten, my answer is Fabiana's Energy Flow. 

 

I second this. I don't have Energy Flow but the Zen Moods pack and this is the best HDRI set I have for Studio setup lights. I have tested a lot of HDRI lights and I always reach out for this one for close ups. I like them for the soft and balanced look they create. Also, they are easy to setup for a 3 point light setting. They work well with other lights combined in one scene.

Thanks again for the helpful comments! I also actually felt like the ZenMood light pack might be a little bit more in the direction of what I‘m looking for. Both look really beautiful though. 

MelissaGT

I have both and I use Energy Flow more then Zen Moods but they are both good. One thing of note...I do end up having to tweak the tone mapping (which Fabiana includes multiple presets for)l...as the HDRI lighting out of the box can be kinda dim. I also tweak the spotlights by changing their shape to square and upping the size so that they have a softer look. 

tsroemi

melissastjames said:

I have both and I use Energy Flow more then Zen Moods but they are both good. One thing of note...I do end up having to tweak the tone mapping (which Fabiana includes multiple presets for)l...as the HDRI lighting out of the box can be kinda dim. I also tweak the spotlights by changing their shape to square and upping the size so that they have a softer look. 

I see, good to know! Thanks for taking the time to give all this advice, I appreciate it. I will definitely try one of Fabiana‘s sets I think, the renders are that beautiful ...

Nevertheless, I can‘t help myself but keeping on hoping for the Painter‘s Lights to see a relaunch, in one form or the other. I mean even if J.Cade doesn‘t use them so much anymore, there‘s still a bunch of people here who do, and again, I think a lot of their renders using those lights show why ... Ah well, I just sort of fell in love with those lights I guess.

Fauvist

Can someone post some renders, or links, to images made with Painter's Lights?  

If they are so spectacular, why are they no longer available for purchase?

XtraDimensional

j cade is no longer a vendor, and thus the product cannot be sold. Prying as to why is kind of rude. Life happens and none of us get to judge. 

That said, these are done with j cade's Painter's Lights and DimensionTheory's Light Probe #13 from the original pack of those. 

tsroemi

Hanabi, I don‘t think Fauvist meant to pry, he (?) just asked, that‘s all. Thanks for the renders you posted anyway!

tsroemi

The renders are really great, Hanabi, by the way, the people look extremely life-like I think.

AllenArt

melissastjames said:

tsroemi_de848f77ba said:

Thanks again for the opinions and suggestions everyone, this is really helpful! I found Fabiana‘s lights, they look stunning and indeed very painterly, so to speak. I saw two sets actually - Theory of Light Energy Flow and ToL Zen Moods - I guess the Energy Flow one is the ‚original‘ one, but they both look gorgeous. But man, these are expensive! Will have to wait a while until I can get them.

I also looked at Paper Tiger‘s sets but got kind of confused there because there were just so many of them! I wouldn‘t know which one to choose really. They all look stunning though.

Probably I should start out with the Neon Splash set here at DAZ next time it‘s on sale. I did send a suggestion to DAZ anyway to try and buy the original Painter‘s Lights, and also opened a thread in the PA product suggestion forum. If there are any more suggestions on how to create a painterly render atmosphere, please keep them coming, they‘re much appreciated!

I get asked constantly about what lighting I use in my portraits and nine times out of ten, my answer is Fabiana's Energy Flow. 

I use these a lot as well.

lilweep

Hanabi said:

j cade is no longer a vendor, and thus the product cannot be sold. Prying as to why is kind of rude. Life happens and none of us get to judge. 

That said, these are done with j cade's Painter's Lights and DimensionTheory's Light Probe #13 from the original pack of those. 

your characters are so cool.

In fact, i would like to know which skin the 'jeremy' character and 'KC' are using, or a breakdown if not off-the-shelf.

tsroemi

AllenArt said:

melissastjames said:

tsroemi_de848f77ba said:

Thanks again for the opinions and suggestions everyone, this is really helpful! I found Fabiana‘s lights, they look stunning and indeed very painterly, so to speak. I saw two sets actually - Theory of Light Energy Flow and ToL Zen Moods - I guess the Energy Flow one is the ‚original‘ one, but they both look gorgeous. But man, these are expensive! Will have to wait a while until I can get them.

I also looked at Paper Tiger‘s sets but got kind of confused there because there were just so many of them! I wouldn‘t know which one to choose really. They all look stunning though.

Probably I should start out with the Neon Splash set here at DAZ next time it‘s on sale. I did send a suggestion to DAZ anyway to try and buy the original Painter‘s Lights, and also opened a thread in the PA product suggestion forum. If there are any more suggestions on how to create a painterly render atmosphere, please keep them coming, they‘re much appreciated!

I get asked constantly about what lighting I use in my portraits and nine times out of ten, my answer is Fabiana's Energy Flow. 

I use these a lot as well.

Did you also use them in the promo renders for the ornamental clothes, by any chance? I‘ve admired the lighting in the studio pics already!

Asari

My only beef with Fabiana's light set is that it leaves strange looking reflections in the eyes. I try to rotate the dome so that it becomes less obvious but I can't always hide it. It leaves a blank white streak when it hits the eyes directly which doesn't look very realistic to me as a light reflection.

fastbike1

@melissastjames " I also tweak the spotlights by changing their shape to square and upping the size so that they have a softer look."

I do this as a default. Emulates a photographic softbox and IME doesn't add significantly to render time. General rule for Photographic lighting is "close and large = softer shadows". Rectangular and disk also work well for certain uses.

I recommend this as standard practice for using Iray spotlights. For me it allows me to avoid emmisive lights for general lighting purpose and save the render load for specific uses.

@Asari "My only beef with Fabiana's light set is that it leaves strange looking reflections in the eyes."

I don't get this effect. Generally HDRIs won't give you eyes reflections since you need light shining directly into the eyes.

MelissaGT

fastbike1 said:

@melissastjames " I also tweak the spotlights by changing their shape to square and upping the size so that they have a softer look."

I do this as a default. Emulates a photographic softbox and IME doesn't add significantly to render time. General rule for Photographic lighting is "close and large = softer shadows". Rectangular and disk also work well for certain uses.

I recommend this as standard practice for using Iray spotlights. For me it allows me to avoid emmisive lights for general lighting purpose and save the render load for specific uses.

@Asari "My only beef with Fabiana's light set is that it leaves strange looking reflections in the eyes."

I don't get this effect. Generally HDRIs won't give you eyes reflections since you need light shining directly into the eyes.

I don't get any weird effects either, but I do get nice eye shine...always have using HDRI. Here's an example using only the HDRI from Fabiana (no spot)(there is a rim, but it's way off to the side and isn't the source of the reflection) - 

tsroemi

@Melissastjames, that is such a beautiful render! Are you using the Energy Flow set here?

MelissaGT

tsroemi_de848f77ba said:

@Melissastjames, that is such a beautiful render! Are you using the Energy Flow set here?

Yes, it's one of the Energy Flow HDRI's with a soft rim off to the side/rear...along with one of the included tone mapping presets. There is a nice one that gives a great pop to color/contrast/brightness. 

Asari

fastbike1 said:

@melissastjames " I also tweak the spotlights by changing their shape to square and upping the size so that they have a softer look."

I do this as a default. Emulates a photographic softbox and IME doesn't add significantly to render time. General rule for Photographic lighting is "close and large = softer shadows". Rectangular and disk also work well for certain uses.

I recommend this as standard practice for using Iray spotlights. For me it allows me to avoid emmisive lights for general lighting purpose and save the render load for specific uses.

@Asari "My only beef with Fabiana's light set is that it leaves strange looking reflections in the eyes."

I don't get this effect. Generally HDRIs won't give you eyes reflections since you need light shining directly into the eyes.

Hm ... with the HDRIs I use, I get a lot of reflections with HDRI. These eyes are all rendered with HDRI as the only light source with the exception of the last one, the last one has a mesh light which is reflected in the upper left hand corner but the rest of the reflection comes from the HDRI since you cannot create these kind of reflections with a mesh light or spot light.

The bright reflection I'm talking of is here: the white bright spot does not seem realistic to me. The smaller white spots are from a mesh light, the bigger white spot is from Fabiana's HDRI. I used Zen Moods here.

MelissaGT

Asari said:

fastbike1 said:

@melissastjames " I also tweak the spotlights by changing their shape to square and upping the size so that they have a softer look."

I do this as a default. Emulates a photographic softbox and IME doesn't add significantly to render time. General rule for Photographic lighting is "close and large = softer shadows". Rectangular and disk also work well for certain uses.

I recommend this as standard practice for using Iray spotlights. For me it allows me to avoid emmisive lights for general lighting purpose and save the render load for specific uses.

@Asari "My only beef with Fabiana's light set is that it leaves strange looking reflections in the eyes."

I don't get this effect. Generally HDRIs won't give you eyes reflections since you need light shining directly into the eyes.

Hm ... with the HDRIs I use, I get a lot of reflections with HDRI. These eyes are all rendered with HDRI as the only light source with the exception of the last one, the last one has a mesh light which is reflected in the upper left hand corner but the rest of the reflection comes from the HDRI since you cannot create these kind of reflections with a mesh light or spot light.

The bright reflection I'm talking of is here: the white bright spot does not seem realistic to me. The smaller white spots are from a mesh light, the bigger white spot is from Fabiana's HDRI. I used Zen Moods here.

RE the "odd" spot...I think it would depend on your angle. The image I posted above was with Energy Flow, and I use it alot for my "standing straight" portraits. The results I get in terms of reflection is pretty similar to what you'd see with studio lighting where a single main spot light is used. 

Asari

melissastjames said:

Asari said:

fastbike1 said:

@melissastjames " I also tweak the spotlights by changing their shape to square and upping the size so that they have a softer look."

I do this as a default. Emulates a photographic softbox and IME doesn't add significantly to render time. General rule for Photographic lighting is "close and large = softer shadows". Rectangular and disk also work well for certain uses.

I recommend this as standard practice for using Iray spotlights. For me it allows me to avoid emmisive lights for general lighting purpose and save the render load for specific uses.

@Asari "My only beef with Fabiana's light set is that it leaves strange looking reflections in the eyes."

I don't get this effect. Generally HDRIs won't give you eyes reflections since you need light shining directly into the eyes.

Hm ... with the HDRIs I use, I get a lot of reflections with HDRI. These eyes are all rendered with HDRI as the only light source with the exception of the last one, the last one has a mesh light which is reflected in the upper left hand corner but the rest of the reflection comes from the HDRI since you cannot create these kind of reflections with a mesh light or spot light.

The bright reflection I'm talking of is here: the white bright spot does not seem realistic to me. The smaller white spots are from a mesh light, the bigger white spot is from Fabiana's HDRI. I used Zen Moods here.

RE the "odd" spot...I think it would depend on your angle. The image I posted above was with Energy Flow, and I use it alot for my "standing straight" portraits. The results I get in terms of reflection is pretty similar to what you'd see with studio lighting where a single main spot light is used. 

Yes, definitely. That's why I rotate the dome until it fits, I just find I have this issue with Zen Moods HDRIs more often than with other HDRIs. Can you also rotate the dome vertically in Iray?

Comets

melissastjames said:

"snip"

Hey, that's a great render, love the soft light and colour.

I also like Fabiana's lights, and good news, a new one, 'Heavens',  has just been released.

Asari

By the way Fabiana's store is on sale today and so I bought Energy Flow.

Kerya

A recent render by me with the Painter's lights ...

MelissaGT

Asari said:

By the way Fabiana's store is on sale today and so I bought Energy Flow.

Oh wow that's insta-buy for me...I've been looking for something to use to give me that soft, painterly look for outdoor compositions! I also love that Fabiana lists out in detail everything that goes into each promo image.