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...but those are only useful for creating materials and 2D works/effects.
MD is also a toolset for designing 3D clothing geometry.
In contrast, an annual subscription for 3DS Max or Maya is 1,620$ a year, .Cinema 4D (w/o Redshift) 720$, and Modo 629$ (the Foundry still offers a perpetual Modo licence for 1,888$ with an annual maintenance update [after the first year] at 419$/year).
I thought about that upgrade from 8 to 9. Did you decide that it is more cost effective to upgrade each version or to skip a version and take a hit on the percentage discount? I decided on the latter but my arithmetic is notoriously suspect.
From their perspective is not a dead end, on the contrary. You, me, most people in this thread and lots of their customer might agree that having suscription only just sucks. But they only see $ and if they are doing that is because they know they will get more money (and more consistently) with subscriptions even with all the people that will not use their product again. Can it backfire? sure, but i have seen real bad sudden changes in licensing for other products that were way worst than this and the a-holes endured. And it will get worst, this kind of changes are just the start; after a while when they have they clients on a hook they will alter the conditions, release cooler features (that you paid for development with your subscription) only available on hier tiers requiring you to spend even more per month.
Love it... just love it...
They are lucky I am not that good of a coder, or you would all have a free Marvelous Designer clone within Blender right now.
I'll continue to work on my clone (started a year before the first Blender cloth addon came on scene [Cloth Weaver]), but it will be a few years until I am at the level I need to be to sustain it -- MD will probably be at version 12 (or 15), or Blender itself will be at the cloth sim level to actively compete with it (with paid addons, of course [because it seems no one wants to code to further Blender along for everyone's benefit, but for their pockets -- Don't get me started on policies - I know and understand both sides of the coin...]).
* For Blender :
Since this is my workspace, and as an original first generation MD user (MD2) -- I will give my recommendations for Blender addons for right now that could help you with using Blender in a more MD style for cloth creation -- From those I own and use.
1. Modeling Cloth (nicstt's post as 'Extended Tools' [because that is what the panel tab name actually is -- I change mine to 'RC_Cloth']) -- By Rich Colburn, a talented full-time coder who works on this in his spare time when not working on his professional coding duties. It is technically free (at github), but he has implemented a donation model by putting it up for sale at Blender Market, or you can donate directly through the addon if you wish.
It works in it's own sim environment within Blender utilizing Numpy instead of Blender's native cloth sim. Has pinning, cloth pulling, inflating, and sewing.
* Currently in flux, and another full rewrite due to Blender's continually changing API -- The B2.79 version still works (with some limited functionality in some areas - but with some other great implementations not in the B2.x series). For B2.8x - it will be a hit/miss for you based on what version of Blender you are using, and which version of Modeling Cloth you have...
2. Cloth Weaver -- By Andrew Kane. The first MD style cloth creation addon ('Sew Springs' patch was technically the first - but was really only a precursor to creating cloth creation modules for Blender). It works great, but in my opinion, he jumped to fast to believe he was a MD competitor, and instead of working on to improve the cloth creation abilities of the addon, went with coding a dual subscription based/server activation and usage lock-down the likes of what MD has. He has changed this so many times - I am not sure where he is at with his purchase/renting model right now -- It doesn't affect me, because I have a lifetime 'Grandfathered' version from early on before this was all implemented. Your milage may vary...
Also, he doesn't appear to have ever been a MD user, so his addon is based on how he works with cloth creation/simulation in Blender based on working with large scale toon characters. It is 3D creation environment with polygon meshing -- He does have some premade clothing assets, but once again, designed to fit his large scale toon character -- will work for Daz3D/Poser characters with adjustments to clothing, and/or your working characters.
His addon resembles my first prototype with how it works (3D side only - excluding my 2D cloth creation side), and I created an extension addon to add all the things I believe he was missing from his -- He has since implemented a couple of them to make it work better without the need for mine.
It uses Blender's pinning, and lacks cloth pulling, but it can utilize any of Blender's cloth sim techniques already known to us...
3. Garment Tool -- By Bartosz Styperek (aka: JoseConseco). This is an unadvertised one still considered in beta by one of the most talented of the cloth creation addon creators. This one uses curve modeling for cloth creation, and is the closest you will get to working how MD works - but, in a 3D environment only (because that is what he likes - has never used the 2D to 3D from MD, so doesn't believe it should even be considered).
Another author who has not used MD, but developed it with similarities in cloth creation, including a great sewing springs workflow, pinning, and cloth pulling. It has a great asset library with some included cloth patterns, and ability to save your own.
Has two levels of purchase - Business and Individuals.
4. Simply Cloth (and Pro) -- By Vjaceslav Tissen. He just added the Pro version with additional capabilities that are not included in standard -- He was generous to give to us original purchasers an auto-upgrade to Pro. I have not actually used this one yet (purchased for code study and his great cloth presets), but have studied the manual, and watched all the videos -- It looks like it will add another great level of Blender cloth sim usage, and his cloth presets seem to be on par with MD's cloth presets -- Which is something I have seen asked for over the past few years.
I barely touched the surface describing them, so go check them out to see their full capabilities, and if you think they will help you in using Blender for cloth creation and simulation to avoid Marvelous Designer, or finally cut the strings...
There are other addons that can aid in the creation process as well, including curve tools, remeshers, UV shapers, and etc. You just have to look around, and try some to see if they help you with your work.
Sorry for the length, but I hope this has helped at least one...
I noticed that the so called cheaper price of 300 USD a year for a personal licence is for freelancers and personal users only. Enterprises have to pay 1700 a year, and since I am part of a 2 man gaming company then it looks like that is what I would have to pay, ouch.
I think I'll pass.
Not a fan of subscriptions, but they can be done right. I have a JetBrains subscription (programming tools) the has a fallback model. If you drop the subscription, you still have the version active at the start of the annual subscription. In other words, you don't lose your work for lack of the tool as happens with other software with proprietary formats. Their incentive is to keep you happy with improved tools and services. Your incentive to subscribe is based on their ability to do just that. Carrot, not stick. Maybe a little stick, but still...carrot.
Yeh, Jetbrains do it right; in affect you own something, and it is not a perpetual rent.
... And thanks Daremok3 for the the list.
I got a reply from the Marvelous Designer people in case you were a little confused as I was about the upgrade of the Perpetual License.
RIP in peace MD. I also do not rent software. So I won't be paying for another version, shame, it's a good program.
Not all subscription software is bad, it really depends on the company. Having a subscription only model may mean more developers and more new features each year.
Plus the web site states that the personal license will be less than the current monthly charge so you may all be getting excited over nothing. What if it ends up being the equivalent of the cost of Netflix or Hulu?
Finally, they did give you plenty of advanced notice so if you're interested you can still upgrade the perpetual license as far as version 12. At one major version update that is 3 years before you have to switch since 10 is in 2020, 11 is in 2021, and 12 is in 2022. You won't have to worry about subscription only until version 13 in 2023. And there's nothing saying that you can't continue to use the latest version that you have.
I agree that the advanced notice is fair; in affect I get to purchase the full copy 3 times if i wish.
I disagree over the subscription software being not all bad; as a consumer, it's all bad.
... But they were committed to that as I'd bought 9.5; I would be entitled under the current system to purchase later versions at varying discounts; the notice just halts that at version 12 at the latest.
If it is the cost of Netflix or Hulu then a month when I need it is fine for those that don't mind.
Netflix and Hulu and similar services work on a subscription because of the products they offer. I still cancel them at times if I find myself not watching much - because my cash is better in my account.
If the alternative is stagnant software (Daz Studio, Hexagon, Bryce, Carrera) then I don't mind paying a reasonable fee. When was the last time we got any major new features for any of the mentioned software packages from Daz? There are plenty of features that I would love to see but have little hope of ever seeing them. If the software is stagnant and requires a monthly subscription then yes, I would be inclined to go elsewhere. For the time being I will reserve judgement until I see what we get between now and 2023.
You end up paying the price of buying it without actually owning anything.
They don't care how long you've been a loyal customer; stop paying and it's bye bye.
So it looks like the financially, at those listed prices, the most relevant thing would be to upgrade to version 9 perpetual, absent new compelling features to upgrade to version 10, and then wait until version 12 is released to upgrade to a perpetual license for it.
dForce Hair, last year? Animation enhancements (though they are seriously buggy with respect to saved scenes right now)? The difference between 4.12 and 4.5, the first official release, are enormous - hardly stagnation just because the leading number hasn't changed for some years.
Agreed
I wonder if these software companies are seeing what the game industry did by going subscriptions to cut down on the piracy and gaining a capture customer base. with subscriptions service model they have a monthly income , unlike standlone once the software is sold there is no more income from it until the next upgrade. Imo its just like what the Streaming gaming is . All About the money. I'll never support rent to use DRM controlled software. So waste of money. when what I have stops working then I'll go back to drawing on paper. I hear graffiti is making a come back.
I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you on the stagnant part. Sorry. And I don't care what the version number is as long as they're continuing to innovate and push the software forward.
....just wish there was more new conforming clothing here. Having to run dForce sims all the time even if I change a pose slightly is just a bother and slow on my older hardware.
Stagnant? Would not agree with that...at all.
Myself, joined Daz Feb 2019.
In that time:
- implement RTX ( and reecently NvLink & MemoryPooling)
- SBH
- work behind the scenes on Maya plugin
- drop to CPU issues (OPtix etc)- trying to deal with that & Iray being a 3rd Party product
- dForce updates continual in background
- Overhaul animation ongoing
- shader redesign (bricks) in background to match Nvidia Iray latest (based on changelog)
- Now rumors of Google Filament for RT
- QT updates
- new shopping cart coming
- DazCentral
- and more if you follow changelog details
At worst, Daz seems to be implenting too much new stuff at same time with too many bugs leading to less than Optimal user experiences.
For me, for example, i don't use the published SBH hair, despite liking many of the styles, cos they aren't optimized to work with many actor scenes. And that's with a better PC system. But that's my usage, and will likely be addressed sometime in future.
But implementing all that stuff takes lots of time.
And they are funding that out of store receipts, in addition to paying the content artists and all the staff incolved with store products, and support.
Maya or MD you are paying lump sum for product only. And they want update fees.
On the Internet see this daily trend, of what appears to be many users disregarding all the stuff that is done in background, complex stuff that takes lots of time and iterations, and some users focus on specifics wants instead. And the rest doesn't count at all. Or that's how it appears to me.
Thanks for sharing! Saved me the effort of figuring out what to do with my MD 8
When I say stagnant I'm referring to the implementation of new features not the implementation of bug fixes or updating to the latest version of 3rd party controls (i.e. QT)
Given the fact that they have limited time and resources I would have preferred they invest it into Daz Studio instead of creating Daz Central
The new shopping cart is not a feature of Daz Studio (or Hexagon or Bryce or Carrera)
I agree that software going subscription is a nail in the coffin for dabblers in 3d like me. Earlier in the year there was a 30% reduction for MD for a limited time and I finally decided to go for it only to find that the end of the deal was midnight of the day before the deal end date and I missed it. Then I believe a new version was released just after.
If I am reading things correctly, MD can still be bought on Steam with no upgrade possibility and it can still be bought from the official site at full price for the latest version.
To be honest, much as I would like to have the software, there are so many things in my life that are underused from software to art materials to diy tools that I don't want to be burdened with much more. Too many intended projects are just not getting done.
One effect that MD going subscription has had on me is to be afraid of 3d Coat doing the same before I upgrade to the full version. Let me stress, there has not been even a whisper of this happening - I just don't want to risk missing out and aim to buy it very soon instead of waiting for the next sale.
Since this thread has mentioned alternative paid-for clothing software, here is a quote from another forum from the creator of VWD:
": The new version will allow to generate strands hair from classic hair. These hair behaves well in animations or dynamic poses and give good rendering results. The new version will allow you to create clothes from a geometry. I use Rhino3D for the geometry creation and I think it is the best program to do so. I generally use GMSH for the mesh generation (I like to work with equilateral triangles). All the other parts of the cloth generation can now be made in VWD. Personally, I don't like the limits of the shape generation in Marvellous designer and I also don't like the meshing generation in MD. All the clothes I will create will be made using VWD."
That is everything I intend to say concerning VWD. Also I don't know what GMSH stnds for in the quote above - mabe some type of mesh.
Regards to all.
MD replied to my query about potential for having annual subscription (i had asked them this as their announcement said personal license type was monthly only - at the current price this is very expensive!).
They responded saying:
I think their selling point is there is no other option. It worked for cable companies.
Garment tool for Blender looks the most promising ATM.
Laurie