To many of the products sold here do not work as intended or as advertised.
Adruzo
Posts: 28
To whom it may concern here at DAZ studio listen up!! You need to step up your quality control on the products being sold on this site!!! The help department is less than helpfull when it comes to broken products which is also unexceptable. At first I thought it was me, I thought, it's because I don't know how to use DAZ Studio. But the fact is the DAZ Store sells broken products. And it happens more offten than it should. Quality control in the DAZ store is simply not as good as it needs to be. This will only hurt the company in the long run. I purchase products from sites other than DAZ as well and I find that these products typically out-perform many of the products available at the DAZ Store. I don't believe this is how it should be, I believe that only the very best products should be what is available for purchase at the DAZ Store. Please step up your satandards and provide better products. Also I believe it would be helpful if people could rate the products being sold in the DAZ Store.
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We are repeatedly told that Daz employees do not read the forums. They will not get this message. You will need to send this as a help request.
There do seem to be more defective products getting through QA and into the store recently. Of course my perspective is based on the particular products I have purchased. I don't know if it is generally true of the whole store. I can only recommend that you vote with your wallet, as people say, and return the broken products for a refund. Daz has an excellent return policy. You have 30 days from date of purchase to return it for a full refund.
Most (maybe all) products in the store are created by independent artists (PAs) and are only brokered by Daz. Even the items listed as "Daz Originals" are just items that Daz purchased up front from these same artists.
That's a bit general to offer sensible reply - do you have some specific examples?
I'll offer a few from my recent purchases. I have submitted help requests about these issues and many more:
I have many many others that are "just" metadata errors. There are some obvious things like:
And then there are the numerous products that have files (sometimes all of them) in Lost and Found. I'm talking about recent products, not old V4 era stuff.
I currently have 136 OPEN help requests, some dating back years. The "bug tracker" must be an overwhelmingly huge list.
I agree with Adruzo, Barbult AND Richard. It is a heartbreak to buy something only to find it's not what you expected and in fact won't work for what you needed it for. Most things I find that are "broken" are dForce clothing items that drap unpredictably and end up collecting dust in my closet because they are too hard to work with reliabley. That said, I have never gone wrong asking for advice in the forums and finding out that in some instances, I had the wrong understanding of the product from the start. I bought one environment once because I liked that if you lit it correcectly, you could see shadows of characters in the next room. I made a thread on the board and went around and around with a few peoples suggestions until we were all scratching our heads. Finally someone else saw it and said "I have that. The silhouette function only works in 3DL." And I was using Iray.
We're all human, it happens. Daz Customer suppport hasn't ever put up a fight when I requested a refund and I find that to be very refreshing. And Richard is right too. Give someone a chance to hear you out and you might find that there is a simple explaination after all or a reasonable work around. You might be of the opinion that there shouldn't BE work arounds and that's a valid opinion. But for me, to get the sort of results I want out of Daz, there are ALWAYS work arounds and acrobatics involved because all of our expectations are so varied.
On a personal note, whenever I get frustrated and want to break my monitor over my head I try to remember how much better I am than when I started. I'm not sure how long you've been Daz'ing but if it's been 1 week or more, you know it's hard. I've shown my work to friends and family and a few have asked me to show them how. They tend to last about 15-20mins before they understand just HOW MUCH goes into it, what you have to know and remember,just endlessly beat on...before they NOPE right out of there.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. It's the hard...that makes it GREAT."
-Jimmy Dugan c1944
Hello barbult, I have in fact sent many help requests the results of which are, all to often, disapointing. My install manager lists over 3500 purchased and installed products, maybe I should start doing reviews on these products. I will grant that many of my reviews would not necessarily be negative, there are infact many good products bieng sold on this site. But I will not hold back on the bad products. It is possible that clearly defined and constructive criticism, constructive being an important part of this, could likely help product creators improve there current products and potentialy improve the quality of futre products.
I'd be happy to see a product review thread. Perhaps you could start a thread in the Art Forum where you post your experience (bad and good) with various products.
Hello DDCreate, I have been using DAZ for about 5ish years. I am in no way saying that I don't like the program, DAZ studio is intuative to use and has many versatile and very powerfull features and I love the IRAY render engine, it produces fantastic results. I think the combination of DAZ and IRAY produces some of the best 3d content I've seen. Also I am not expecting "perfect" products. Some products work right out of the box, so to speak, others require a little tweeking and some are flat out broken. The broken ones are what I am concerned about. As far as what I consider broken, well I don't feel that I should have to re-texture an entire modle to make it work. I have models in my library that have broken texture maps and won't render with even remotely satisfactory results without going into every surface and making changes to miltiple maps and yes these modles are advertised as having IRAY textures. I believe that I should be able to load a product, set up lights and camera, test render make a minor adjustment to increase or decrease reflectivity or some such thing or two and end up with a passable render. And then, at my discretion, I can go back and add all the little detials and tweeks to make the render really pop.
It's also true that, even allowing for the "new normal" we're in, it's taking an obnoxiously long time for tech support to address issues. For some items, I've refused to file tickets -- and yes, I do know that means that CS doesn't know about issues -- because things are taking so long to address.
I've got two tickets that have been open at least six months or more. One of them, when I asked about it, I got the CS equivalent of a Gallic shrug -- they'd let the bug tracker know that the reported problem was still an issue. The vendor has had other products go into the store since that ticket was filed; I do not understand why Daz doesn't have a policy of "You don't get another product into the store until this broken one is fixed." At the very least, the vendor should be reporting some sort of progress that the store can report back to the customer, or even, something as simple as, "Yes, it's broken, and I don't know how and why. Please pull this product from the store until it's fixed." (And yes, it is still for sale despite being very badly broken.)
The other ticket is even more problematic. After six months, it happened that the vendor released another product that they promoted in the forum. I sent them a message, letting them know that there was an issue with the product that I filed a ticket on. They examined their product, figured out what the issue was, and submitted an update to fix the issue ...
A month ago.
Update still hasn't come through DIM.
I get that CS has to balance doing QA on new products along with supporting older products, I really do. And I do understand that some bugs will make their way through the process. And I get that the current situation is not the best to work in. But none of this should be taking as long as it does.
For me, it raises the questions: Are they even testing some of these products? Who's responsible for fixing these issues?
I just can't understand how so much stuff is left unaddressed.
As far as help request go, it is currently taking 8 business days to get a cut and paste reply of:
"Thank you for the report. I apologize for the inconvenience.
I am reporting this to the bug tracker. We will let you know when the issue has been resolved.
Please let me know if you have further questions."
I got identical cut and paste responses to the last 9 requests for technical support. There is no indication of whether this agent even tried to verify any of the problems. To the customer, it feels like Daz just got someone (or a bot) to open every incoming request for technical support and dump it in the bug tracker to get it out of the way. I did get a rapid response from Emma when I submitted a help request to Sales about that malicious embedded link that was reported in the forum. It is product bugs and metadata errors that disappear into the black hole bug tracker.
I wouldn't buy something if I didn't want to use it. If it doesn't work, I don't want to return it, I want it fixed so that it works as advertised. I need to start just returning things. Waiting 6 months or years for a fix that never comes is stupid on my part. I think I may return the whole Scar 8 Pro Bundle, because of the number of requests I've had to submit about its content. I'm willing to wait the 30 days, but I don't have much hope for fixes by then.
Millions of Americans are out of work. There must be a few that are looking for work, have the skills, and would relish a job in Daz QA.
I have no idea how much testing a new product gets. Some errors, like missing files, should be so obvious that you wonder how that product could ever pass any quality test. The store even sells a tool to check for such problems (Content Checkup). Maybe QA should use it.
True, sadly. More sadly, when one recognizes an error long after the time to ask for a refund.
I wonder, since I am here, why one cannot place recessions to products. This way, even if they are not fixed, I would be warned what to expect.
Well, the only other option for us is that we'll have to start thoroughly testing all of the stuff we buy immediately after purchase. If its messed up, request a refund, period. When it comes to characters, I STRONGLY recommend testing all of the textures(base, bumps, normals, etc.). Its becoming a real pain in the arse, that's for sure.
If they can't reproduce the issue they will say so and ask for clarification (as has happened with a couple of my recent reports), I would read passing it to the bug tracker as confirmation of the issue's presence at least. I had a little flurry of replies to my tickets a few days back, so perhaps they are having a blitz on them.
Jack Tomalin said a short while ago that efforts are underway to beef up the QA side of things. The sooner that happens, the better.
I read thru this thread and it says to me that users are very different in how the use and what they expect from products because I really don't have many issues and the ones that are indeed broken I have either returned or they did a fix and these are very few. Then again I never use smart content so the metadata deal doesn't apply to me and much of what is on barbult's list either doesn't apply to me, I haven't noticed it or it isn't an issue to me.
I do agree that based on the few issues I have brought up to QA and from what i see in the forums, QA doesn't need to get better, especially with checking items BEFORE they are released since i personally hate updates.
I would gather that a good portion of what some users say doesn't work, comes down to user error and not knowing how to use or get the best out of the product.
if i was looking to beef up daz's QA, i'd offer barbult a remote staff position.
:)
j
as a Carrara and iClone user I often assume issues I find to be an incompatibility and just fix them myself, am often surprised to learn later it was actually a product fault.
I appreciate your confidence in my abilities! I am enjoying the retired life and not looking for a job, though.
I try to contribute by taking the time to report these problems with a help request. It actually takes quite a lot of time to write a good help request with instructions for reproducing the problem. Sometimes CS will even come back and ask for a video demonstrating the problem. After all that, when nothing is done about it, it does get quite discouraging. I keep doing it, though. What is it they say about the definition of insanity? Oh yes, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
depends
I'd say products, yes, individuals, no.
one cannot point out obvious intellectual property infringements though as it is accusatory
I wasn't wanting an exhaustive list - but it seemed rather a sweeping generalisation without any back-up.
Well, it has quite a lot of backup now, from several people ... but it's not at all clear what can be done with this. After all, normally what we're supposed to do with problem products is to file a ticket ... but Tech Support itself is more than half the problem. So ... what now?
My main isue with these products hinges on this. I am using DAZ studio for production, which meens that the faster I can assemble and render an image the more beneficial it is to me. So when I have to spend an extra hour or two mucking about with a modle, in adition to the typicle tweeking needed, it is detrimental to my goals. I'm just saying, I don't think that it is an unreasonable request to the creators to make there finished product a little more finished before asking customers to purchase it. As for how to go about getting this all fixed, no clue, maybe I just needed a place to vent my frustrations. maybe someone at DAZ will take notice and action will be taken and mybe action is already being taken., I don't know. I thank you all for your time and comments on this isue
I think the biggest problems are the lack of effective QA on new releases and the advertised sales that do not work. Both of these contribute to overloaded customer service trying to handle the enoumous number of incoming help requests.
This is true. I'm not at all positive that there's even ineffective QA at the moment, though.
The lack of QA also means that new PAs, who could use a bit of hand-holding to get started, are not getting the support that could help make promising first-timers into really good sources of income for Daz. The issues with Hagar, for instance, could have been completely avoided if someone at Daz had simply tried to pose and view the character in Iray mode. And the Bonetech3D product pages? Fuggedaboudit.
Using this as an example, I don't expect a product, any product to be install, click and render. I expect to tweak shaders, play with morphs, kitbash outfits, even edit textures in photoshop. To me this is part of the creative process. In essence, we both have very different usage, which wouldn't indicate a product is broken or not working as advertised, but just not up to your (or mine) specified needs and workflow which will differ from artist to artist.
Might be more helpful to list some of the products you have issues with and why so maybe solutions can be found. It's very possible that while a product doesn't live up to your expectations, it did for the PA and any extra usage or function that you or another artist might expect as default, just wasn't something the PA had in mind when developing it.
Not saying products don't have issues or that QA isn't letting things pass, just trying to point our a bigger picture since we have 100's or even 1000's of users all using the same product from DAZ and if it was truly broken, you would think more would say something.
So are you saying that the OP is wrong in saying that "Too many of the products here do not work as intended or as advertised"? If you are not saying that, I'm not sure what your point is.