Why Are my Genesis1 Legs Becomming Distorted

outrider42

Incorrect.

You may have installed a new Genesis 1, but that does NOT erase the content you had previously installed for Genesis 1. Unless you deleted your entire Genesis 1 folder, or used a new computer, you still have all of that old content installed. Deleting the base figure of Genesis 1 does NOT change that one bit. It served no purpose, as you can see now, which is why I did not suggest doing that. 

You could even uninstall Daz Studio itself and it would not matter. The content is still there unless you go into the folders and delete the content causing the problem. Even if you uninstalled the plugin for GenX the content you created with it will still be there.

So again, go over the other stuff in your folder. GenX is not a virus. You clearly had this installed before, and you used it at some point in the past. You need to find the specific folders with the converted characters like I described or you will not get anywhere.

Fauvist

TesseractSpace said:

Fauvist said:

outrider42 said:

Fauvist said:

outrider42 said:

From what it sounds, you only need to remove the better bends files that were transferred to Genesis 1. Is Generation X the only conversion you used to transfer figures?

This may be tougher, but did you convert any characters that contained better bends? It may be possible that you need to delete those converted characters that are causing this. It seems like all of this stems from some kind of conversion, and better bends somehow got baked into the conversion. I do not know how GenX works, and sadly Dimension3D is no longer with us to provide support.

If you still have issues, then you could go for the nuclear option and try wiping all instances of better bends across all generations, plus the characters that you converted (not the original character, just the G1 conversion.) Then once everything is working you can convert those characters again. If better bends is totally gone, then the conversion should not include them. GenX is pretty fast at converting, so hopefully this doesn't take so long.

You will not forever screw up you characters if you delete all instances of better bends. Better bends, like it says, is just for joint control. It will not effect the character's morph. It should just make joint control like it was before you installed better bends, which may be both good and bad. It is possible that if the saved file uses better bends, it will give you an error, but it will still load. If this happens, just resave the scene, this way it will not ask for better bends again. Since this controls joints you might see some differences in poses on the joints. But if it avoids this issue, then that is a very minor thing.

The distorion happens with the Genesis base figure, a base figure I've done NOTHING to, not moved, not morphed, not textured, no character added, - NOTHING.  I just load Genesis.  Bend the shin (or almost anything else) and the distorion happens. I also notice that Generation X is there, already in the base Genesis figure.

I understand that. That is not the question. Have you used Generation X to convert characters from G2 and G3 to Genesis 1? That is the question. If you did, then better bends JCMs may have been included in that transfer.

JCMs can work on unmorphed figures. That is what Better Bends does. Whether you dial in a shape or not, Better Bends is automatic, and applies to all characters of that Genesis generation. So when you bend the leg, it kicks in. Clearly something has gone wrong, and it looks like there may be several JCMs at work at the same time. If you have 3 different joint controllers all trying to correct the same joint at once, this is something that might happen. From your earlier post, you showed pics of Genesis 2 and 3, and even Genesis 2 male all showing up on your Genesis 1 list. That should not be possible without having used something, I am assuming GenX, to convert them to Genesis 1. That is why I ask if you converted characters from G2 and 3 to 1. This could be the source of your issue. Fixing that may require deleting those conversions. They should all be in files for Generation X.

You don't understand.  I downloaded a NEW Genesis 1, onto my desktop.  Double cllicked on it (it had only been in existance for less than 5 seconds) and it loaded as normal in DAZ Studio - this absolutely brand new download of Genesis 1 that I've never done anything to.  The very instant this new Genesis showed up in the Paramaters Panel, Generation X was already listed, which is the screen capture in my last post.  I transfered nothing to it.  I did nothing to it.  All I did was open it.  It loaded.  And Generation X showed up in the Parameters instantly.  Like I said, it's like a virus.

Sigh. Unless you completely wiped Studio, you could download a clean Genesis install a hundred times and hit the same result. The morphs are kept in a folder, not in the genesis.duf itself, if you have the generation x morphs in that folder, loading a Genesis will cause them to load with it. (Thus how loading a Genesis figure allows you to load any of the characters you have for it.)  You have to get them out of the morphs folder. I believe it should be (wherever your content folder is)/data/DAZ 3D/Genesis/Base/morphs 

But if I take them out of the folder, how will the characters that actually need those GenX files load correctly?  Is there no OFF slider for GenX?  Or something I can ZERO to stop it from working?  I just checked - there are 38,000 files in my Genesis folder.

Ohhhhhhh Nooooooo.........I just checked and this problem exists with every figure and character for Genesis 1, Genesis 2, and Genesis 3.

outrider42

It is like I said before, if you have saved files that look for these better bends JCMs, it may pop an error, but just click through and the scene will still load. It will take a little longer since Daz has to Daz, but it will load. Then once the scene has loaded, just resave it right there. Once you save the scene without the JCMs, that error will not pop again. Better bends only effects the posing of joints, not the morph itself. So the shape should be fine.

It also depends on how long this has been there. If you have save files before better bends, then those will not ask for it.

There has to be something that caused this. Have you installed anything recently? Converted anything recently?

Fauvist

Fauvist said:

TesseractSpace said:

Fauvist said:

outrider42 said:

Fauvist said:

outrider42 said:

From what it sounds, you only need to remove the better bends files that were transferred to Genesis 1. Is Generation X the only conversion you used to transfer figures?

This may be tougher, but did you convert any characters that contained better bends? It may be possible that you need to delete those converted characters that are causing this. It seems like all of this stems from some kind of conversion, and better bends somehow got baked into the conversion. I do not know how GenX works, and sadly Dimension3D is no longer with us to provide support.

If you still have issues, then you could go for the nuclear option and try wiping all instances of better bends across all generations, plus the characters that you converted (not the original character, just the G1 conversion.) Then once everything is working you can convert those characters again. If better bends is totally gone, then the conversion should not include them. GenX is pretty fast at converting, so hopefully this doesn't take so long.

You will not forever screw up you characters if you delete all instances of better bends. Better bends, like it says, is just for joint control. It will not effect the character's morph. It should just make joint control like it was before you installed better bends, which may be both good and bad. It is possible that if the saved file uses better bends, it will give you an error, but it will still load. If this happens, just resave the scene, this way it will not ask for better bends again. Since this controls joints you might see some differences in poses on the joints. But if it avoids this issue, then that is a very minor thing.

The distorion happens with the Genesis base figure, a base figure I've done NOTHING to, not moved, not morphed, not textured, no character added, - NOTHING.  I just load Genesis.  Bend the shin (or almost anything else) and the distorion happens. I also notice that Generation X is there, already in the base Genesis figure.

I understand that. That is not the question. Have you used Generation X to convert characters from G2 and G3 to Genesis 1? That is the question. If you did, then better bends JCMs may have been included in that transfer.

JCMs can work on unmorphed figures. That is what Better Bends does. Whether you dial in a shape or not, Better Bends is automatic, and applies to all characters of that Genesis generation. So when you bend the leg, it kicks in. Clearly something has gone wrong, and it looks like there may be several JCMs at work at the same time. If you have 3 different joint controllers all trying to correct the same joint at once, this is something that might happen. From your earlier post, you showed pics of Genesis 2 and 3, and even Genesis 2 male all showing up on your Genesis 1 list. That should not be possible without having used something, I am assuming GenX, to convert them to Genesis 1. That is why I ask if you converted characters from G2 and 3 to 1. This could be the source of your issue. Fixing that may require deleting those conversions. They should all be in files for Generation X.

You don't understand.  I downloaded a NEW Genesis 1, onto my desktop.  Double cllicked on it (it had only been in existance for less than 5 seconds) and it loaded as normal in DAZ Studio - this absolutely brand new download of Genesis 1 that I've never done anything to.  The very instant this new Genesis showed up in the Paramaters Panel, Generation X was already listed, which is the screen capture in my last post.  I transfered nothing to it.  I did nothing to it.  All I did was open it.  It loaded.  And Generation X showed up in the Parameters instantly.  Like I said, it's like a virus.

Sigh. Unless you completely wiped Studio, you could download a clean Genesis install a hundred times and hit the same result. The morphs are kept in a folder, not in the genesis.duf itself, if you have the generation x morphs in that folder, loading a Genesis will cause them to load with it. (Thus how loading a Genesis figure allows you to load any of the characters you have for it.)  You have to get them out of the morphs folder. I believe it should be (wherever your content folder is)/data/DAZ 3D/Genesis/Base/morphs 

But if I take them out of the folder, how will the characters that actually need those GenX files load correctly?  Is there no OFF slider for GenX?  Or something I can ZERO to stop it from working?  I just checked - there are 38,000 files in my Genesis folder.

 

outrider42 said:

It is like I said before, if you have saved files that look for these better bends JCMs, it may pop an error, but just click through and the scene will still load. It will take a little longer since Daz has to Daz, but it will load. Then once the scene has loaded, just resave it right there. Once you save the scene without the JCMs, that error will not pop again. Better bends only effects the posing of joints, not the morph itself. So the shape should be fine.

It also depends on how long this has been there. If you have save files before better bends, then those will not ask for it.

There has to be something that caused this. Have you installed anything recently? Converted anything recently?

Everything.  A new Macbook Pro computer.  A new external hard drive. A new version of DAZ Studio.  I remember when I first opened DAZ Studio after I got all the new stuff - Generation X was missing. It was May 15th.  I posted a thread in the forum about it.  Then I took my 93 year old mother to the Emergency department at the hospital because she couldn't breath and they had no Covid 19 tests at the time, so we were in quarantine for 2 weeks.  It was 2 weeks of incredible stress and confusion.  It turned out she didn't have Coronavirus - she had something else.  But I'd forgotten that thread on Genx until what you just wrote sparked the memory.  I tried to get Generation X to work.  I moved the Generation X files around from folder to folder.  I deleated all of them.  And reinstalled all of them.  But they went into different folders than before.  What can I say, I thought my mother was dieing.  Now it's like an Agatha Christie mystry trying to remember what I did.

Fauvist

This was the thread https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/408151/genx-help-please-on-macos-catalina#latest

 

Fauvist

Someone on that thread gave me screen shots of where the content is supposed to be.  I'll try and find it and put it in those folders.

Fauvist

Okay, now I remember something.  Something wouldn't work, so Richard Hastaline told me to download the Public Build of Studio.  Which I did.

One thing I can tell from looking at the list of files, is that I have 2 folders - one for Daz Studio 64 bit AND the same folder for Daz Studio 64 bit Public Build.  That's the first thing that's wrong.

The second thing wrong, is that a lot of the files that are supposed to be in the folder for the Public Build, which is what I'm using, are actually in the folder for the non-Public Build Daz Studio.  So I have to sort the right files into the right folders.

outrider42

So then this issue is actually related to that one. Somehow you have these extra JCMs interacting at the same time. Since you are on Mac, I can't really help with Mac. But at least we know this likely stems from that earlier incident, so that is something.

I don't think the beta is any issue here. The issue is purely content related, and trying to figure out which files are causing it. It is not GenX either, as much as it looks like it could be, GenX is only the smoking gun. If you are concerned, create a back up first. Then go kill these better bends files. Looking at your pic, you have Generation X files with better bends, that had to happen somehow, better bends and Generation X are 2 different products. When you convert a shape, that is a whole new shape separate from the original. So even if you delete the original better bends shape, the one from conversion is still there. But maybe you only need to delete one group of these. That is probably what is happening, like I said, you have multiple better bends all applying at once. These are not designed that way. They are designed to be just one, and the bend of the knee is designed all around that. If you add more JCMs that effect the knee, then they all add together, and this creates the distortion you are getting.

It is like "Hey, I need a pencil!" But your get 5 pencils taped together. You only need one pencil, 5 creates a mess. That is what is going on here. You have all of these different JCMs all combining together when you should only have one. How that happened I cannot say, but it has to be because of what you did back in May. You need to get rid of these extra JCMs. It might be easier to just get rid of them all.

So you have a new machine, is the old one functional? If you still have that old machine you could look at the file structure on that. If the hard drive from old machine still works it can still be used as well if you have a connector and can power it. A hard drive enclosure would do, but I wouldn't want to buy one just for this.

Fauvist

outrider42 said:

So then this issue is actually related to that one. Somehow you have these extra JCMs interacting at the same time. Since you are on Mac, I can't really help with Mac. But at least we know this likely stems from that earlier incident, so that is something.

I don't think the beta is any issue here. The issue is purely content related, and trying to figure out which files are causing it. It is not GenX either, as much as it looks like it could be, GenX is only the smoking gun. If you are concerned, create a back up first. Then go kill these better bends files. Looking at your pic, you have Generation X files with better bends, that had to happen somehow, better bends and Generation X are 2 different products. When you convert a shape, that is a whole new shape separate from the original. So even if you delete the original better bends shape, the one from conversion is still there. But maybe you only need to delete one group of these. That is probably what is happening, like I said, you have multiple better bends all applying at once. These are not designed that way. They are designed to be just one, and the bend of the knee is designed all around that. If you add more JCMs that effect the knee, then they all add together, and this creates the distortion you are getting.

It is like "Hey, I need a pencil!" But your get 5 pencils taped together. You only need one pencil, 5 creates a mess. That is what is going on here. You have all of these different JCMs all combining together when you should only have one. How that happened I cannot say, but it has to be because of what you did back in May. You need to get rid of these extra JCMs. It might be easier to just get rid of them all.

So you have a new machine, is the old one functional? If you still have that old machine you could look at the file structure on that. If the hard drive from old machine still works it can still be used as well if you have a connector and can power it. A hard drive enclosure would do, but I wouldn't want to buy one just for this.

I will tackle that tomorrow.  I've been trying to fix this for 14 hours and I have to go sleep. At least I put all the GenX files in the proper place and deleted all the duplicates and old versions.  I opened up Studio again and loaded a Genesis base figure and bent the shin and got the same distortion, so you're right - it's the Better Bends that's causing the trouble.  THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR HELP!

Fauvist

How do I access the DAZ documentation pages for the Beautiful Bends products?  Is there a link somewhere?  I need the list of files and where they were installed,

Thanks!

outrider42

Hmm, it looks like Beautiful Bends is no longer in the store. Interesting. It took a bit more searching, but here are the Genesis 2's readme's.

http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/17506/start

http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/18253/start

I imagine the file structure of other generations will be the same.

While I was searching, I found threads about trouble with Beautiful Bends, and they said it would need an update. Here it is effecting the shoulder, but it looks a lot like what you have with the knees.  https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/42171/underarm-back-issue-with-beautiful-bends-g2f

And another. note the last post of the thread.  https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/51887/beautiful-bends-vs-ultimate-natural-vs-soft-body-vs-ideal-beauty

 

Fauvist

No mattter what I tried, I couldn't get rid of Beautiful Bends. I tried for 16 hours to fix the problem.  What I ended up doing, AND IT WAS TEDIOUS, was going to every slider for Beautiful Bends, and opened up the settings, and set the miniumum and maximum to ZERO.  So they're still there, but they can't cause any deformation.  If the world were a simpler place, Beautiful Bends might work.  But artists aren't accountants.  Artists mix everything together until they get what they want.  Beautiful Bends didn't play well with others.  They should have named the product Endless Deformation Chaos. 

Now I have to try to get GenX2 to work.

outrider42

Just to ask, did you install manually or with DIM? Because if you used DIM or Smart or whatever you should be able to get rid of it that way.

For manual downloads, getting rid of JCMs...maybe Richard have a better answer for that? What is the best way to uninstall a product like BB that has all these JCMs? Where is the big controlling property that is keeping these JCMs installed even after attempting to delete them? There has to be a way.

I would be trying to solve this before doing GenX, to be safe.

Fauvist

I am SO SICK of Beautiful Bends.  It's a TROJAN HORSE full of viral frustration. I have no more patience with it.  It takes just one product like this to cause me to NEVER buy another product from that vendor.  And it's happened a couple of times.

PerttiA

All the morphs for Genesis 2-8 figures are installed and stored following the same logic ...\Data\DAZ 3D\[Genesis generation]\[Gender]\Morphs\...

The morph for Genesis 2 Female can be found in ...\Data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 2\Female\Morphs\... Do a search for *bends and it should give you short enough list to locate the sub-folder which is used for storing the files for "Beautiful Bends" and delete those files = Problem solved for all Genesis 2 Female figures

Genesis 3 Female morphs can be found in ...\Data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 3\Female\Morphs\...

Genesis 8 Female morphs can be found in ...\Data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 8\Female\Morphs\...

As Genesis 1 is the same base figure for both genders, the morphs for them are located in ...\Data\DAZ 3D\Genesis\Base\Morphs\...

Fauvist

PerttiA said:

All the morphs for Genesis 2-8 figures are installed and stored following the same logic ...\Data\DAZ 3D\[Genesis generation]\[Gender]\Morphs\...

The morph for Genesis 2 Female can be found in ...\Data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 2\Female\Morphs\... Do a search for *bends and it should give you short enough list to locate the sub-folder which is used for storing the files for "Beautiful Bends" and delete those files = Problem solved for all Genesis 2 Female figures

Genesis 3 Female morphs can be found in ...\Data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 3\Female\Morphs\...

Genesis 8 Female morphs can be found in ...\Data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 8\Female\Morphs\...

As Genesis 1 is the same base figure for both genders, the morphs for them are located in ...\Data\DAZ 3D\Genesis\Base\Morphs\...

Ok, I'll try it.  You would think UNINSTALL would remove them, but like I said, no matter how many times I get rid of them, they come back.  

ed3D

_have'nt had this kind of trouble but don't have GENERATION X MORPHS nor Beautiful Bends, neither _

Fauvist

SUCCESS!  This is what I learned.  It may not apply to anybody else, it may have been something I did that was unique.

When I used Generation X or GenX2, and I added the Beautiful Bends morphs or controllers or whatever you want to call them - and transferred this package of morphs using GenX2 to my Source Figure - GenX2 made a copy of the Beautiful Bends morphs files, YES IT MADE COPIES OF THE FILES, and they became part of the figure conglomerate created when you transfer different generations of morphs onto one figure using GenX2.  And GenX2 not only copied the BB files, GenX2 gave the files DIFFERENT NAMES from the original BB files.

So, eventhough I DELETED ALL THE BEAUTIFUL BENDS FILES from my computer, these GenX2 auto-generated auto-renamed BB morphs remained on the computer.  I will post screenshots.

Among these hundreds of copied and renamed files from Beautiful Bends, there is one slider, named Disable All

Not BB Disable All, not Beautiful Bends Disable All, not Bends Disable All ---------just----- Disable All.  With no indication whatsoever what it is used to disable. 

Also, [see the screenshot] in the settings pane for this "Disable All" slider, I found that this slider controls FIVE different sliders which exist for FIVE DIFFERENT things, only ONE of which has BB in the name.  But I had to reset the limits for this main slider so that I could go to -5 [minus 5] since there were 5 sliders listed.  So.....I had to set the slider to minus 3 to disable Beautiful Bends.

Anyone else with a similar problem - A WORD OF CAUTION

GenX2 mixes the BB files in with hundreds of other files it converted and renamed.  So DON'T just delete all the files.  And DON'T delete just the files with the letters "BB", because there are non-Beautiful Bends files that use "BB" in their names.

To disable the Beautiful Bends files, use the slider in you Parameters Panel  WHICH YOU HAVE TO SEARCH FOR USING ONLY THE WORDS DISABLE ALL

You can't search your Parameters using the GenX2 generated new name for the slider because it WON'T SHOW UP.

Then, BE AWARE

that if there is a number in brackets next to the DISABLE ALL slider, then it is used to disable more than just Beautiful Bends.  You have to go into the settings for that one slider and click on the drop down arrow for the NAME field to see what the other products are that you are disableing. 

Logically there should be FIVE sliders with the name Disable All among my sliders for this one figure - but I can't find them.  Theoretically it would allow me to dissable only the GenX2 renamed Beautiful Bends files, and leave the others un-disabled.

Why I got GenX2 files incorporated into all my G1, G2, G3 base figures and all their derrivatives - I DON'T KNOW.

I think I deserve the Nobel Prize for figuring most of this out.

Now I have to figure  out why GenX2 won't work.

 

 

outrider42

Glad you got it sorted.