We need muscle simulation system

takezo_3001

Faux2D said:

I am currently working on a real-time realistic muscle deformation system for Daz. Progress is slow but I think it will be worth the wait.

Here is a sample:

This is much more advanced than anything put out for these characters so far! I read earlier that you're using the bones rather than the JCMs to achieve this, if so, then you're the only one out there that's doing this; you'd make a killing if you were to release this as a PA!

Kevin Sanderson

Faux2D should release it when ready. Already a PA with https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-3--8-face-controls

takezo_3001

Kevin Sanderson said:

Faux2D should release it when ready. Already a PA with https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-3--8-face-controls

Thanks for this info, wishlisted for next paycheck! Yeah, I don't mind waiting as I can look forward to seeing this in the store one day; I'm glad he changed his mind and decided to release it for the store!

Leonides02

It really is incredible work. I bet Daz will snatch it up just like they did his Face Rig!

opppoe_c02b0d86

Faux2D said:

I am currently working on a real-time realistic muscle deformation system for Daz. Progress is slow but I think it will be worth the wait.

Here is a sample:

You are hope!
But it’s really difficult, especially if done by one person

lilweep

i just wonder how easy Faux2D's system would be for others to build upon.

A true muscle and fat simulation system where you can change the muscle mass per muscle and fat mass per area would give people and PA's a lot of flexibility and a simplistic pipeline.

There are many different muslce systems on blender market, but i was thinking something like this for G8 or G9 etc.

https://blendermarket.com/products/raptorex-maker-muscle-system-rig-2

Although i admit i have no idea what im talking about.

WendyLuvsCatz

maybe genesis 9 will be a skeleton with conforming muscle wearables then a dforce skin over the top

j cade

The difficulty with a muscle simulation system is while there are plenty out there in Maya, Blender etc I've yet to see one where the muscles and bones automatically adjust to the mesh. If vendors have to manually adjust.fix the muscles for every morph its not going to be adopted. add that most muscle simulation systems tend to require simulation rather than being fully realtime and you'll have some unhappy users as well

 

I second the tension maps idea or something like implicit skinning. Faux2d's method also looks super promising as well as DS is already very good at automatically adjusting bones to morphs (much better than meshes. its almost 100% automatic with few mistakes) Given that they're doing it currently it requires no new features which is a bonus in terms of likelihood.

 

by my best guess, tension maps would require 2 new features: the calculation of the tension itself (not that dissimilar to how smoothing is calculated this would probably not be that unreasonable to do) and making morphs or dislacement driven by the tension maps. currently you can do things like split morphs via weight maps you'd basically just need that but realtime (and work on hd morphs) if you cant tell, I think hd morphs driven by tension weight maps would be pretty elegant It would also theoretically cut down on the number of total jcms needed, meaning the figure would load and run faster and content creation would be easier. 

Dartanbeck

Weta Digital's "Tissue" is the answer you seek

Check it out at Weta Digital - Research and Tech - Technology - Tissue

davidtriune

tissue works really well for an inside-out simulation system.

maybe attach a genesis 8 figure to a muscle figure to a daz skeleton figure?

Robinson

I was just watching this about Blender's muscle system.  Looks super cool.

onix

I wonder how that can be implemented even in principle since muscle tension depends not so much on the figure pose as it depends on the load on the muscles.

as if your character is lifting a heavy object certain muscles will bulge more than others.

Zilvergrafix

Faux2D said:

I am currently working on a real-time realistic muscle deformation system for Daz. Progress is slow but I think it will be worth the wait.

Here is a sample:

Oh is Genesis9?

butaixianran

I think we had this kind of talk years before. And if we gonna have a muscle system, can we also make our bone structure simple again? Like G2's bone structure, which is simple and clean. G8 just has too many bones.

Zilvergrafix

butaixianran said:

I think we had this kind of talk years before. And if we gonna have a muscle system, can we also make our bone structure simple again? Like G2's bone structure, which is simple and clean. G8 just has too many bones.

G8 bone or rigging system is similar to founded on fighting videogames like Street Fighter V.

 

Robinson

onix said:

I wonder how that can be implemented even in principle since muscle tension depends not so much on the figure pose as it depends on the load on the muscles.

as if your character is lifting a heavy object certain muscles will bulge more than others.

That's why you need extra parameters not just orientation in space.  You know, a pull slider that activates the biceps and a push slider that activates the triceps, that kind of thing.

onix

Robinson said:

onix said:

I wonder how that can be implemented even in principle since muscle tension depends not so much on the figure pose as it depends on the load on the muscles.

as if your character is lifting a heavy object certain muscles will bulge more than others.

That's why you need extra parameters not just orientation in space.  You know, a pull slider that activates the biceps and a push slider that activates the triceps, that kind of thing.

 

I think such a product is already available on daz store if you don't mind to control all those muscles manually

But that is not exactly simulation. Just some extra morphs.

 

opppoe_c02b0d86

onix said:

Robinson said:

onix said:

I wonder how that can be implemented even in principle since muscle tension depends not so much on the figure pose as it depends on the load on the muscles.

as if your character is lifting a heavy object certain muscles will bulge more than others.

That's why you need extra parameters not just orientation in space.  You know, a pull slider that activates the biceps and a push slider that activates the triceps, that kind of thing.

 

I think such a product is already available on daz store if you don't mind to control all those muscles manually

But that is not exactly simulation. Just some extra morphs.

 

No, such as the deformation of the heel of the foot, the deformation of the abdomen and chest when bending backward, and the deformation of the shoulders, none of these

opppoe_c02b0d86

j cade said:

The difficulty with a muscle simulation system is while there are plenty out there in Maya, Blender etc I've yet to see one where the muscles and bones automatically adjust to the mesh. If vendors have to manually adjust.fix the muscles for every morph its not going to be adopted. add that most muscle simulation systems tend to require simulation rather than being fully realtime and you'll have some unhappy users as well

 

I second the tension maps idea or something like implicit skinning. Faux2d's method also looks super promising as well as DS is already very good at automatically adjusting bones to morphs (much better than meshes. its almost 100% automatic with few mistakes) Given that they're doing it currently it requires no new features which is a bonus in terms of likelihood.

 

by my best guess, tension maps would require 2 new features: the calculation of the tension itself (not that dissimilar to how smoothing is calculated this would probably not be that unreasonable to do) and making morphs or dislacement driven by the tension maps. currently you can do things like split morphs via weight maps you'd basically just need that but realtime (and work on hd morphs) if you cant tell, I think hd morphs driven by tension weight maps would be pretty elegant It would also theoretically cut down on the number of total jcms needed, meaning the figure would load and run faster and content creation would be easier. 

Actually, there is no need for real-time simulation. Create a switch to let users choose freely, just like dForce.