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RE: Downgrade Version of Daz Studio:
There are options available to preserve your ability to regress to a previous DS version:
RE: Daz not allowing you to do anything else when rendering
If rendering using NVIDIA Iray, and if the video card is capable, uncheck CPU in both Photoreal Mode and Interactive (Biased) Mode devices on the Advanced tab of Render Settings. That will result in a more responsive computer when rendering.
That's not completely correct. While I am the last who woould blame DAZ to pushing the product as requested -and required - truth is DAZ down the road updated iray to a version that is no longer supported by drivers available for Kepler as per nvidia. So, this issue originates from DAZ, not nvidia. Again, not critcism of optimizing performance with supporting advanced technology (or we wouldn't have iray support in the first place)
Still, I think it is fair to expect the installer throwing out a warning before updateing to a version that break support of such essential feature,.This si by far not new leave alone rocket science technology and done before, even more so since DAZ Studio, IM and central are quite connected and would even know to stir this kind of trouble.
This could also be avoided if DAZ wouldn't follow that hardline "forwards ever, backwards never" policy and even delete the previous installers from the download folder but instead would give access to previous builds publically. (Sometimes even I wished I could roll back after using ta particular versionfor a while)
No, you'e definitely not. I think it's afe to say most, if not all of us are. 3D and rendering are most demanding tasks and thus require powerful machines. And most unfortunately computers are outdated the moment you switch them on for the first time. So, let's grace the fact, that DAZ actually is free - until you seriously start to do things with it, that is ;)
While I second the roll back path including deprecated engines it is not feasible, you would need to roll back as do an un/reinstall. Things like iray are coded deep down to the core and you just cannot build a car with a gasoline and diesel engine.
Remember, it is a "free" program? The "only" revenue they make is selling content through their store, and this is either the commision they take from the PAs or minus the labour costs of their internal artists. Adobe is a completely different beast and there's reason to why they moved from "purchasable" programs to subscription only.
DAZ didn't get more power hungry, it just hadn't enough to bite off before. But, honestly, i did not notice that much of a difference when going from 32 to 64GB. But with the prices of last year populating the remaining slots with DDR4 was the only sane decision one could do using his machine for this kind of task .
Basically every program would do so if it requires the ressources, and depending on the machine, that can easily be the case. (I remember Windows 95 seizing my machine completely just for the OS) Also it depends on your scene, some stuff can get quite heavy on the CPU when not optimized for iray. There are tools on the store to convert materials and also reduce the geometry, and they are more affordable than a new CPU or RAM.
It is possible without spending anything. As mentioned you can either limit DAZ taking all possible ressources. But you can also limit the cores DAZ utilizes from Windows (which is even more effective as DAZ does not multithread perfectly well):
With DAZ running launch task manager, go details, right click DAZ and select the affinity to a limited number of cores.
Hope that helps and happy rendering!
There is some truth to it for sure, and we are actually in the thread for the beta. Unfortunately, DAZ does not synchronize beta and PR, neither the layout, nor the most recent order (which I use a lot). So, while you can "try" the beta it is not so easy to actually switch forth and back while actually working.
There is a script to copy settings from one baseline to another. I'll track it down and add a link later.
Here it is.
Thank you so much!
Thanks to all of you for the tips given. I've been looking for this for almost one year now and got it in a matter of days (!!). Yes, I can send a request for an earlier model of Daz Studio, but I've almost lost faith in the support desk by now. However I'll give it a try.
I agree it would be nice if Studio versions other than current were made available.
However, I backup old versions; I backup lots of stuff and I have for many years; Reason: because it's my responsibilty to make sure something I might want to use again in the future remains available. I don't keep all, every so often I get rid of older versions.
I do most of my rendering in Blender (really free); Studio, whilst free, encourages us to buy stuff - and I enjoy that.
3D is resource intensive, there is no such thing as a too powerful computer for 3D.
I recently (this January) bougth a 3090; after my 980ti, the increases in speed are very impressive, but addinga second would give more, as would a third etc. What will also happen, is that new features will be added, some of those will increase render times in an attempt to better create whatever they are intended to do. 3D is never going to be anything but an expensive hobby... Sadly:
I am going to spend about $550 this week on a new RTX 3070 video card. That alone is 4/5ths the cost of the rest of my computer hardware combined. I had until this 2nd generation of nVidia RT video cards resisted doing anything but CPU renders but now the RT cards are fast enough to make that sort of outlay of cash worth it; but only every 3 or 4 years.
And only every 3 or 4 years If the speed increases are similar that you'd expect by 2025 a complex 8K render that could be rendered in 5 seconds or less. In my eyes, if the next generation of nVidia video cards at the entry level in 2022 doesn't include 24G/32GB video RAM and can render a complex 4K in 30 seconds or less it doesn't offer value for money over the Ampere generation to buy it, although I reckon plenty of Turing buyers might be render to buy a new video card by then.
Well should have better not updated I guess. dForce was doing fine on my MacBook Pro Catalina with 4.14. Now with 4.15 Studio hangs every time I try to use it so that I have to force quit. Any ideas? Is it possible to downgrade to 4.14 easily?
Time Machine?
Yeah, KG, but I feel that they've, all of a sudden, switched to krypotonite, since everything used to work before, so your parable has sort of a "limp" to it. And as I said, I hadn't the slightest clue or warning about that to begin with. If I'd had so, I would definitely had saved the working version of DAZ Studio. But, things are like they are. Won't have money to buy a new graphic card before April, so all I can do is to "suck it up". Hands down, I've done amazing things already with Daz Studio and I am beyond impressed with it. The flip-side are the constant crashes and strange error messages. For every new version of Daz Studio, there seems to be a new problem as well. Some times that wears and tears on my inspiration. This with my now non-funtioning GPU was yet another setback to that.
This really is NVidia's work, not Daz's; Daz licenses Iray, they get whatever NVidia provide. Nothing more, nothing less; NVidia provides Iray instances that support your card and they provide completely separate Iray instances that support the latest-and-greatest. DAZStudio necessarily includes just one Iray instance; Daz can chose to support the recent NVidia cards or they can support something older, like that trusty 730 that I have somewhere.
NVidia has no interest in supporting cards, or systems, that they no longer sell; they are a hardware manufacturer. Software for NVidia is a marketing tool. Compare and contrast Intel, Microsfoft, Apple and, should you dare ARM Ltd.
Unfortunately not an option. And also forgot to manually save the 4.14 installer somewhere. Is that one available somewhere?
The only legal way to get older installers is to contact support.
Thanks! Did so!
im hopeing someone might be able to help me please i just started useing the 14.5 then while putting my scene together my items in the working window changed to tiny perimeter lines of all the items i had be working on. Now everytime i open DS and open a figure or any other item its the same tiny perimeterlines. the strange thing is in the tiny window i can see the item as nomal just the large window is all lines so fustrating i really want to use it but i cant i tried unistalling and reinstalling and the same thing ...has anyone else experineced this.?
any help/ideas welcpme
thank you Debby
Use the backup you saved of 4.14 to re-install it.
Check the little dropdown on the left of Perspective View. It's set to Wire Bounding Box in your screenshot. You want to set that to texture shaded to see things as normal.
It probably got that way because cmd(Mac)/ctrl(Win) plus a number key sets one iof the Drawstyles - easy to hit when you were aiming at something else.
See "Perspective View" at the top of the window? To the immediate left of that is the outline of a cube. Click on that and select "Texture Shaded" from the drop down. This is how you change the view mode of the current view. It's easy to click on it accidentally, then it goes into "bounding box" view.
Phew, did not have a backup of 4.14 and customer service told me that 4.14 is no longer available. Will do a backup of the DIM installer before next time.
Frustrated I just loaded a piece of dForce clothing into a new scene that simulated fine. Turned out that it is the collision mode setting. Once I leave it at "Better" the simulation works fine. But setting it to "Best" has studio hang once the simulation should start. From there only force quit helps. Anybody having the "Best"-setting successfully working on Mac?
There is a similar behavior on Windows. If there are a lot of "spring" messages the simulation starts out trying to resolve those; move the parts of the wardrobe away from each other, the character and other wardrobe. I always use "Best", I've learnt to hack the wardrobe to remove the initial collisions, by lowering the collision offset surface by surface. I believe "Better" just stops dForce trying so hard so that it simply fails. It would be really good if someone with more experience than me could comment on this, even better if someone could say exactly what "Better" and "Best" do; I couldn't find it in the docs but maybe I looked in the wrong place.
The Collision Modes are what and how the engoen checks for collisions - theya re, somewhat cryptically, described on the pop-up list.
Spring length is the length of the edges connecting pairs of vertices within the mesh - moving the dForce item won't affect that (but enlarging it probably would). Having many (active) edges shorter than the offset is an issue because as dForce tries to incease the separation to satisfy the offset condition it's adding energy to the springs, which then has to be dissipated by reducing tension, which brings the length below the offset threshold, all that energy being pumped in and taken out leads to explosions.
(waving at everybody) Hi, folks --
A question regarding dForce problems secondary to the last couple of releases. -- I'm running DS on an Asus Republic of Gamers Strix machine a couple of years old -- not the most powerful machine, but fine for rendering work: a GTX 1050ti on board, drivers all up to date. dForce has been running well enough... until just recently.
When I updated to 4.12 a little while ago, dForce flat-out stopped working. Specifically: the first time I ran it preparatory to a render after 4.12 dropped, it reinstalled the dForce kernel files, then started running... and hung at "1 second" in the "Stabilizing simulation" window... and stayed there. Five minutes, half an hour, an hour and a half on one attempt: no movement. No way out except to pull up Task Manager and kill the process, and the program.
4.15 dropped and I installled it this morning, hoping for better... but no joy. It hangs in the same place.
By way of experiment I checked the same bare-bones dForce run on a version of 4.10 still resident on my old, old W7 machine -- a G8M figure with the dForce Medieval Villager garment on him -- and it ran perfectly happily. (Not at any great speed -- took it about 10 minutes -- but it ran as expected.)
I've been up and down this thread and haven't seen (or have missed, my apologies in advance...) anyone reporting this problem. I've fiddled with pushing settings up to "Best" as recommended here and there: no joy.
I'm willing enough to ask customer service for an install copy of anything pre-4.12 (as I've been distracted by twelve other things, aren't we all at the moment, and did not have backups of what came before). But would prefer to just push the system through this if I can. Does anyone have any thoughts on possible tweaks?
Many thanks in advance for any assistance. dForce isn't a dealbreaker for me, but I prefer to have it there in the normal working machine when I need to call on it, rather than having to haul a file into the Ancient Poor Creaking Desktop and run the simulation over there. :/
Thanks, friends!
--DD
I use an ASUS RoG Maximum X Hero (I don't know where ASUS get these names from...) it's comparable with the Strix.
DAZStudio runs dForce on the GPU, if it is allowed to (the card selection is in the Simulation advanced options), so I would expect that to be the major perf factor.
I've observed somethng similar, particularly with simulations involving hair. In my case it is definately specific to individual products; if you see it for all products the rest of this message is unlikely to be helpful, that sounds more like an issue with dForce for the particular card. In that case use the advanced GPU settings to disable dForce on the card so that it all runs on the CPU. This may help in other cases as well because it is likely to change the math errors in the calculations.
If not you can use the animation timeline to help find out what is going on; move to frame 30 in the timeline, create a key frame for the figure (normally that's all you need because the hair/wardrobe isn't posed). Use TRSO when you do this (or you can use TRSOA and create the pose node-recursive on the hip node, that is a lot faster but does miss some character-level properties, IRC 3DU pose architect for one).
Now go back to Frame 0, select the figure, and do "Restore Figure Pose" (Edit/Figure/Geometry?/Restore/Figure Pose, something like that). You may have to manually set the figure translate and rotate back at this point; dForce simulations from the memorized pose don't use the memorized figure location itself.
Turn off the similuation "initialize" options - don't initialize from the memorized pose - and use "timeline play range" for the simulation. Save the file (you are likely as not going to have to kill DAZStudio) and run the simulation. This isn't precisely what you are doing - it is a simulation from the memorized pose (1s) with no initialization and no stablization afterward and it will possibly hang at frame 1 but it does sometimes give a clue to what is going on since you can see the intermediate steps in the simulation. You can add the "stablize" step just by extending the timeline out to frame 60 (1 additional second of no character movement), likewise the initialize step can be added at the start, but you have to set all of the frame 0 keys to constant or linear (TCB will generate spurious intermediate motion).
What seems to have changed is that dForce has become far more stable; it doesn't give up trying to solve the collision offsets and so it can take a very very long time. That is the problem selecting all the dForce surfaces and dropping the collision offset to 0 may allow the simulation to get further at the cost of increasingly the liklihood of dForce explosions.
I thought I saw some changes from 4.14 but it's probably just the result of internal code changes shifting math errors around; there are not meant to be any "functionality" changes.
Also try lowering it. Reduce the collision detection setting from 4 to 1; 1 is normally sufficient but can leave some collisions, 2 normally solves those.
To speed things up set the FPS multiplier to 1 (this also seems to reduce file size) and lower the "subframes". This effectively speeds up the animation and therefore reduces gravity and increases air resistance in proportion, so the results can be weird, but it vastly reduces the time. The iterations setting doesn't do anything to speed if the collisions can be solved; dForce seems to stop iterating when it has found a solution. For normal simulatons I set FPS to 1 and double the sub-frames setting, for maximum debugging I sometimes multiply FPS by the sub-frames and set sub-frames to 1 then make the same change on the timeline FPS; this shows me every sub-frame on the timeline.
The desert queen hair (strand based hair) product had bad simulation time and, sometimes, error issues for me. There are three separate threads (that I know about) discussing the product, this one mentions the dForce issues with that hair and the comments apply to strand based hair in general:
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/436117/desert-queen-hair#latest
This is one about simulation issues:
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/6343051/#Comment_6343051
(No, I haven't made any progress on that particular issue yet; I'm still trying to get to the bottom of an unrelated explosion.) This is the product commercial page which has useful tips that apply generally to strand based hair though it doesn't have much discussion of dForce:
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/435702/
[Accidental duplicate comment deleted]
Hey, jbowler, you are *extremely* kind to take the time to get so closely to grips with this. Thanks! ...I'll take a run at this over the next day or three and see if I can make some headway.
More shortly! And thanks again.
Best--
DD