Yet another Genesis vs GF2 thread
marble
Posts: 7,500
I'm so sorry for going over old ground but there are specifics about which I am not sure as yet.
Although I have Genesis-1, I have generally stuck with V4 for my females. There is still a lot of interesting content for her elsewhere which tends to be cheaper than Genesis (1 and 2) add-ons. However, I have been impressed lately with the nice look of some of the G2F characters. The stomach, chest and limbs look so much more realistic.
So I'm finally tempted. But adding 3 "essentials" to my wishlist came to over $60 and that is too much for me. Those are:
G2F Morphs Bundle
Growing Up for G2F and V6
V4 for G2F
I probably even need something else to allow me to use V4 skin textures.
On the other hand, I have grabbed certain Genesis-1 products as I have noticed them while they have been on sale and I now have:
Evolution Morphs Bundle
Genesis Generation X
V4 and M4 Shapes for Genesis
Glute and Breast Movement for Genesis
Ageing Morphs for Genesis
Young Teens Julie and Justin
Victoria 5
So my question is this - can I get close to G2F realism with Genesis-1 and the add-ons I have already? I saw a thread here with pictures of the mesh for G2F compared with a Genesis 1 Female and I must say the G2F looked to me more realistic. Again, would it be possible to get close to that with the Evolution morphs pack? I believe there are also some freebie morphs for Genesis which extend the possibilities.
By the way, I'm not into fantasy warrior queens, sci-fi action characters or anything of that ilk. Just a hobby but it is fun to create stories about "everyday folk" (sometimes with an adult theme). One day I might even try to make a kind of photo-comic story.
So what do you think? Stick with V4? Attempt to dial-in Genesis morphs or wait until G2F is obsolete and the price comes down? (I'm getting quite old so she might outlive me ;) )
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Comments
Sadly, you won't get the same level of detail with Genesis simply because it lacks polygons in the areas that Genesis 2 improves upon. Furthermore, there are HD morphs for Genesis 2 which add even greater realism to the figure, but those cost extra of course.
That being said, Genesis still does a fantastic job for figures so if you're unable to invest in G2F then you might be better off sticking with the earlier generation. What I will say however is that V4 for Genesis not only gives you the shape, but it also gives you the UV's for Victoria 4, so you can use older skins, so you would only need the 3 purchases you listed to get started.
Oh boy, I hadn't even considered HD morphs. Just looked for some in the store and V6 HD is another $40! This is really becoming an expensive hobby just when my income has taken a nose dive. I want that realism, but ... :(
If you have Generation X2 you can transfer all your genesis Evolution Morphs and the shapes for Julie and Justin, and the basic Genesis child morph which lessens the need to buy the first two in your list. You would need the last one though to use your V4 skins. That would mean G2F is fully useable, and even without HD morphs should look better than old Genesis.
If you can only get one product for Genesis 2, of those you listed, I recommend Victoria 4 for Genesis 2 Female. It will give you the basic V4 shape and will allow you to use her textures and clothing on G2F. Then later you will be able to get the morph bundle and growing up.
If you do decide to make a bunch of purchases to invest in Genesis 2, consider joining the Platinum Club Plus first. That will drop the price of products like the basic G2 morphs and HD by 30% (any product where DAZ is the vendor). It will cost $24 to join for 3 months, but if you are making several purchases, it will pay off. You might wait a couple weeks and see if DAZ has a reduced price for Platinum Club Plus during the PC Sale that starts after the extended PA sale ends.
I just looked at the product page and I have the old GenX. Generation X2 has this note:
Note: There is no separate upgrade version for owners of the previous version, so owners of version 1 of Genesis Generation X (full or upgrade version) receive a 66% off coupon at checkout. The upgrade coupon expires August 15th, 2014.
So I missed that. Wish they would email us about these updates - I didn't start using Download Manager until a couple of weeks ago.
Thank you - I have been in the PC before but found I was never spending the vouchers and not getting much benefit from the discounts. Quite a lot of the products here are of no interest to me. But sometimes it can work out a saving just to join and not renew. I'll do the maths.
I just looked at the product page and I have the old GenX. Generation X2 has this note:
Note: There is no separate upgrade version for owners of the previous version, so owners of version 1 of Genesis Generation X (full or upgrade version) receive a 66% off coupon at checkout. The upgrade coupon expires August 15th, 2014.
So I missed that. Wish they would email us about these updates - I didn't start using Download Manager until a couple of weeks ago.
I suspect it will be 50% off at some point around the end of the PA sale, or failing that in the Black Friday sale at the end of November
Unfortunately, only one of my 3 "essentials" qualifies for PC+ discount and $24 is much more than 30% of $33. I could only justify joining if I intended to buy a lot of content - which I don't. I would hope to use my legacy content (V4 and Genesis One), hence the conversion tools.
PC club drops the price by 30%, i.e. you get 30% off. So the product costs 70% of the non-PC club price. $33 * 0.7 = about $23. If the math doesn't work to your advantage, then you won't join, of course.
That's only partially true - while the figure is slightly lower in resolution (by one level of sub-division, effectively) because it is a SubD figure morphs don't always have to use some of the resolution for smoothing, as the older figures do, and so the effective resolution for detail is similar. That said, the lower resolution does mean there are fewer choices of where to place detail.
Just to be clear - are you saying that the 30% discount is across the board or only on DAZ Originals (I.e. those products with a PC logo under the icon in the listings?
For example, the G2F Morphs bundle is by DAZ 3D so that, in my understanding, qualifies for the 30% discount in PC+. The Growing Up product is by Zev0 and doesn't qualify - right? Surely we don't have to join to find out what the actual prices are?
For the discount to be worthwhile for me, I would need to save more than the $24 is costs to join PC+. But, as you show, 30% discount from $33 (the price of the G2F Morphs Bundle) is only about $10 saved, so it doesn't cover the cost of joining.
That's only partially true - while the figure is slightly lower in resolution (by one level of sub-division, effectively) because it is a SubD figure morphs don't always have to use some of the resolution for smoothing, as the older figures do, and so the effective resolution for detail is similar. That said, the lower resolution does mean there are fewer choices of where to place detail.
I'm not sure I understand this point either. How do you determine which areas are smoothed, which get added detail, etc? Is that something the content creator would decide?
Just to be clear - are you saying that the 30% discount is across the board or only on DAZ Originals (I.e. those products with a PC logo under the icon in the listings?
For example, the G2F Morphs bundle is by DAZ 3D so that, in my understanding, qualifies for the 30% discount in PC+. The Growing Up product is by Zev0 and doesn't qualify - right? Surely we don't have to join to find out what the actual prices are?
For the discount to be worthwhile for me, I would need to save more than the $24 is costs to join PC+. But, as you show, 30% discount from $33 (the price of the G2F Morphs Bundle) is only about $10 saved, so it doesn't cover the cost of joining.
Anything that lists DAZ 3D as the vendor will be 30% off. PC items with the P will be much much less. Old PC items (released before July I 2014 think) will be $1.99. Newer PC items will be higher than $1.99, but always $7.99 or less. When new DAZ items are released, they will have a 51% discount for PC members (combination of 30% PC discount and 30% new release discount i.e. price is X*.7*.7).
So, you are correct that of your top 3, only the morphs bundle is DAZ 3D and subject to the 30% PC club discount. As someone mentioned earlier, there will likely be a PA sale catchup at the end of the current sale. You may be able to pick up your other two must haves for 30% to 50% off. I'd wait and see if I were you.
Also, the next expected sale is the PC club sale. Membership may be discounted and there will certainly be sales on many PC items. There are usually low priced PC product bundles, etc. for PC members. Sometimes they even give PC club prices to non-PC club members for a few days.
I am a PC member, so the price shown below represents the 30% off for a DAZ 3d product.
I'm not sure I understand this point either. How do you determine which areas are smoothed, which get added detail, etc? Is that something the content creator would decide?
The whole mesh gets smoothed - so, for example, if you want to make a ridge you just need to move a line of vertices out and when you render or preview you will see a smooth profile instead of a sharp ridge on Genesis; to get the same effect on the fourth generation figures you would need to move a line of vertices out, and then another line either side of that a bit less out. That would apply to all situations - in some cases the shading would do a good enough job of hiding jaggedness - but it does mean that in at least some cases the fourth and earlier generation figures will need more vertices to get the desired results than Genesis and later, cancelling any benefit from their higher resolution.
Ahh - Ok, I understand, Richard. Thanks.
Yes, I've noticed that V4 in SubD has the jaggy bits smoothed at the expense of some detail. And clothing with Smoothing turned on usually fits nicely but loses some of the built-in creases. Sometimes, My Genesis-1 attempts look just too smooth - like porcelain dolls. Is G2F good for detail as well as smoothing?
Well after some tweaking and fiddling around I ported over one of the Young Teens to GF2F and came out very well was quite pleased that it worked.. lol
Getting the new GenX2 and the GF2 plugin for it is worth it as I have ported a lot of the characters I have over to GF2 Female..
The pic below is Haley for Young Teen the left is Genesis 1 the right is Genesis 2 Female..
Just thought of another question. Most of my V4 characters are morphed. They use a combination of Morphs++ and commercial characters (such as 3D Celebrity Lola as an extreme example). Some have a combination of Gen4 morphs - usually Stephanie 4 or Aiko 4.
Does the V4 for G2F product allow the transfer of the morphed character or just the basic V4 shape?
Or am I understanding the product incorrectly and it is just a means of fitting V4 clothing to G2F? If so, then it is still essential because I have a lot of V4 clothing and textures.
V4 for G2F is most important for the V4 uv's it gives G2F, thus allowing you to use your V4 skins on her. It also comes with a clone shape so you can autofit V4 clothing on to her. However to transfer any morphs other than the V4 base shape you need Generation X. With that combined with V4 for G2F you should be able to transfer over a character so that it looks very close to the V4 original.
I understand now ... thanks. :)
Greetings,
Just to pile on... The PC sale is coming up (nominally after October 15th) and the membership itself is often discounted, plus there are regular excellent discounts on DAZ O's, which could make a significant difference. For instance, if they have a '50% off DAZ Originals' sale, that would make your effective Platinum Club discount 65%. That means that the $32.95 G2F Morph Bundle would cost about $11.53. That'd save you $21.42. If you used the $6 coupon, it would save you $26.42.
A three month membership (minimum for lapsed or new members) is $24. You could, reasonably, in one good sale save more than the cost of a three month membership.
Your other items would qualify for the PA coupon (the second of the two monthly coupons PC+ members get), netting you an additional $6 savings off of those. (Bought in a separate transaction, so you can use the other coupon, of course.)
Now I'll admit, it relies on there being a 50% off DAZ O's sale. If there wasn't, you could look at it this way. 30% off $32.95 saves you $9.88. Plus a $6 coupon off the morphs saves you $15.88. Buy the PA G2F items with the other coupon, and you've saved $21.88. It's not $24, but all it takes is buying one DO at a price higher than $7.10 and you've net saved money. If there's a discount on memberships, of course, it makes the math even nicer...
All that relies on the idea that it's something you definitely want to have. I'm not advocating saving-by-spending, but if they are something you've decided you really want, then honestly, join the PC+ first. Given the math above, the WORST you'll be out is $2.12, if you never make another PC+-discounted purchase.
-- Morgan
Impressive arithmetic :)
So I should wait a couple of weeks, join the PC (which might be on sale too) and hope for a PC sale and grab my essentials (plus maybe a couple of nice-to-have's) all on a budget. I like your maths.
By the way, I have V6 from a Fast Grab but have not yet loaded her. I gather she doesn't have a certain part of her anatomy but another (specialist) store has the missing item. Anyone care to comment on the quality? As usual, the promo pics do the product no favours.
If you mean genitals then the DAZ set comes with the Pro pack (for any of the adult females, as I recall, though I haven't checked if it's true of Girl 6 or Aiko 6). Renderotica does have, I believe, both a morph pack for the DAZ genitals and a stand-alone set - I've no idea of how good they are.
Regarding morphs; there are any number of freebie morphs on places like ShareCg. Some you probably won't want to bother with, but others are very useful to have in one's toolbox. SickleYield, for example has ported the DieTrying set of morphs over for both Genesis 1 and 2 (M+F).
there are a couple of genital products from Renderotica that I know of a pretty good as they morph and what not the standard genitalia that come with the Pro Packs..
there are a couple of genital products from Renderotica that I know of a pretty good as they morph and what not the standard genitalia that come with the Pro Packs..
I think I read somewhere that both V4 and G2F have more polygons down there but - per my initial query - Genesis-1 is not able to produce the necessary detail. What other areas of Genesis-1 are lacking? Face? Hands?
Also, G2F is said to be better for hip, arm and leg bends which leads me to wonder why there are "Bend Fix" morphs packs for her? I find it quite odd that we need to buy separate products to fix what should have been done right in the first place.
There's always PAs who wish to improve figure bends... Many "fix" packs for genesis 2 I often find unnecessary, and in some cases I find really hard to identify in the promos what was actually fixed and why. No matter how great those sets are, I'm always hesitant to use them, particularly the automatic ones, largely because I'm not always working with a human character, and correctives packs aren't designed for custom dialed creature characters or creature morphs. However the one you've linked here I do have and I think it is an excellently made set (both gender versions). The only issue I have is I'd rather turn it 'on' manually, and have it 'off' by default, sure have it automatic when its switched on, but just don't have it on by default. It's just my preference for such products.
But as it stands I personally do see a great improvement in bends on genesis 2 over genesis 1, but no figure is perfect and I think its up to individual artists as to what is or isn't looking best, and I guess thats where the PAs who make such packs come in.
I agree with your comments in general and if I bought such a set, I'd also like the on/off option. I still think there are bends that the DAZ people have failed to get right repeatedly. Especially the glutes. Why they have not noticed that glutes don't balloon out when they bend is beyond me.The promo pictures for the Ultimate Natural product show that this is still an issue even with V6. The same goes for shoulder bends. Perhaps it is my eye for realism but once I notice these things, they bug me.
The way I see it, if you want generic everyday people like extras in a scene, then G1 with a few dial spins or a character randomizer product will do the trick. However, if you're looking for main characters that stand-out in the spotlight, G2 is more appropriate.
For me personally, I use all three figures simultaneously because, even in the Real World side of the spectrum, each figure brings something to the table that the other doesn't (as mentioned by others here). Though, then again, I mostly work with Stylized, which G1 does better in my opinion for it's lack of hyper-realistic detailing (that, and the fact that we still don't have that much to work with as far as toons go with G2).
So yeah, again, it basically just it boils down to this: if you want versatility and stylization, go with G1; if you want realism and detail, go with G2F&M.
Ahh - when I said "everyday people" I meant realistic people that you might meet in the real world. Not fantasy action characters with swords or laser guns. Not cyborgs or X-Men. My scenes might be anywhere you might have been - a normal apartment or hotel, a gym or photo studio. I'm not sure what you mean by stylized, however. Something like anime?
So realism is important for me but the focus personalities of my scenes tend to be female which is why M4 or Genesis is fine for my males. I have a few male characters but dozens of females of all shapes and sizes.