Another character I'm returning 8.1 it's not.

nonesuch00

I personally like the shader materials from the last year for 8.0 but with the 8.1 UV layout and resolution. 

nicstt

Drogo Nazhur said:

nicstt said:

Claims to be 8.1, but has 8.0 textures.

Not disagreeing with you or faulting you or anything like that but why does it matter?

The UV change it was cited by Daz as to improve the look; 8.1 was produced it improve said look, if it uses 8.0 then it doesn't provide that look the new UVs are supposed to offer. Hence my statement that they aren't 8.1.

nicstt

outrider42 said:

Guys...the "special shaders" can be applied to literally anything. They are not exclusive to Genesis 8.1. The only changes are the UV map, which is of debatable importance, and the new face rig. Every other "feature" marketed for 8.1 is available very easily for 8.0.

The new PBR shader can use tiles for the details, which means the UV map does not matter. You could apply the PBR shader to Genesis 1,2,3 as well, or even Victoria 3 if you wanted to. Or a banana.

I just want you guys to understand that most of what you are buying here is marketing. Even the face rig that 8.1 uses has roots in 8.0 as a purchased product. So why be bothered by a character actually being for 8.0? You can simply load that character on 8.1 and get all of the advertised benefits of 8.1.

After all, just because a character is 8.1 does not mean that character uses PBR Skin Shader. That is the PA's choice to use it or not.

Thus the advertising on the character is not technically wrong, because this character CAN be used for 8.1, just like all 8.0 characters can be. It may be a bit misleading, but I believe this PA is not a native English speaker and is perhaps as confused as many customers are about 8.1. IMO Daz has failed to create a clear guideline for them.

It's not about the shader but the new UVs; the extra map (the head) is there to give better detail around the neck. 

 

Shader & UV improvements

• Genesis 8.1 adds a new PBR (Physically Based Rendering) skin shader.
• The Genesis 8.1 skin shader introduces improvements for Subsurface Scattering (less waxy skin), resulting in incredibly lifelike skin.
• Added support to leverage MicroSkin tiling micro normal maps from our partners at Texturing.xyz
• New processes and resources in our pipeline have been added to ensure details between sculpts and textures better match, resulting in greater realism.
• Updated UVs for better pixel density and better seams.
• All these combined create a better looking skin in Genesis 8.1.
• Update your Daz Studio Default Resources package (DIM or DazCentral) to 4.15+ to access our new skin shader for Genesis 8.1 characters.

taken from: https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-8-1 ;

nicstt

Matt_Castle said:

nicstt said:

Claims to be 8.1, but has 8.0 textures.

If you argue a figure doesn't count based on things like its UVs, then none of the core Daz figures for Generation 7 were Genesis 3 Males/Females, because I don't believe any of them used the default UVs.

In my opinion, if the PA sets up the figure to load on Genesis 8.1, then it must by necessity be described as an 8.1 figure, because being an 8.1 figure means it will not work correctly with older versions of Daz Studio.

If you're hugely concerned about what UV layouts and textures are used, then yes, it would be nice if that was listed, but Daz do actually provide the information, albeit in a somewhat awkward form - the File List in the official Read Me can tell you that this figure has Face and Torso maps, not Face, Head and Body maps, and therefore you can tell without purchasing that it is using the older UVs. It also does not list any of the new map types (which is not necessarily a guarantee that it's not using PBRSkin, but then PBRSkin isn't actually G8.1 specific anyway, even if Daz introduced it as part of the G8.1 release)
http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/80672/file_list

They used a variation of them; they were tweaked. It was actually possible to map one to the other in Studio as they shared the same four zones, usually labelled as 1001, 1002, 1003 and 1004.

Genesis 3 & 8: 1001, 1002, 1003 and 1004.

Genesis 8.1 1001, 1002, 1003, 1004 and 1005.

I don't know how much of a different the new UV makes, but I'm interested in finding out; it's tough to do at times.

I can easily move G3, G8 onto G8.1, the reverse is not true.

nicstt

WendyLuvsCatz said:

not interested in this one but any character claiming to be 8.1 would probably lose a sale to me due to compatibility issues with other software I use.  so certainly not a selling point for my circumstances.

Would be a shame if it did work perfectly well on 8

They transfer to Blender, which is all i'm bothered about at this stage.

I have no issue with them being G3/8 textures on G8.1, but they should clearly say.

I'd like to know about https://www.daz3d.com/mr-rhoanita-for-genesis-81-female too.

nicstt

Zev0 said:

Gonna add in my 5 cents here. End of they day since Genesis 8 and 8.1 use different uv sets I would like them listed in the whats included and features. Simply have an entry UV Set - Genesis 8 Female or Genesis 8.1 Female or both. This does cause confusion because it isn't specified and it needs to be since a few products say 8.1 for the sake of saying 8.1 for marketing purposes and don't really add or use any 8.1 specific features. There is a difference being compatible with 8.1 vs being natively developed for 8.1.

Thank you for stopping by and adding your own pov.

plasma_ring

Sevrin said:

plasma_ring said:

This might be new or I might be extremely oblivious, but it looks like characters now have "This character uses the Genesis 8 Male/Female Base UV Maps" listed under "What's Included and Features." Leon's list shows that he has PBR settings, Uber settings, and base UVs. 

Am I mistaken in the belief that Iray Uber shaders were also PBR shaders?  For that matter, don't they call Filament stuff PBR?  It's like having three categories called apples, oranges and fruit.

This is why I usually call it "the new shader" even though Daz seems to have settled on "PBR shader" for its official name. 

Here's the actual phrasing from Leon's included features list:

• Daz Studio Iray Uber Material Presets (.DUF)
• Daz Studio PBR Material Presets (.DUF)
• This product uses the Genesis 8 Male Base UV Maps

I'm not totally sure when this info was added, but it's nice to have! In comparison, Leona only has Iray Uber Material Presets listed. 

Gordig

@nicstt, do you have the Daz Deals plugin installed? You can check the file list in the readme for any product, even ones you don't own. MR Rhoanita, since you asked in another thread, has separate textures listed for head, face and body, which as I understand it, would put her as a true 8.1 character. 

Sevrin

Gordig said:

@nicstt, do you have the Daz Deals plugin installed? You can check the file list in the readme for any product, even ones you don't own. MR Rhoanita, since you asked in another thread, has separate textures listed for head, face and body, which as I understand it, would put her as a true 8.1 character. 

While I agree that Daz Deals helps figure this stuff out, it shouldn't be required to find out what's actually on offer, when the product page is supposed to provide all information a customer needs to know.  In the case of Rhoanita, the product page says "This product uses the Genesis 8 Female Base UV Maps", so there's some confusion here. 

MelissaGT

nicstt said:

outrider42 said:

Guys...the "special shaders" can be applied to literally anything. They are not exclusive to Genesis 8.1. The only changes are the UV map, which is of debatable importance, and the new face rig. Every other "feature" marketed for 8.1 is available very easily for 8.0.

The new PBR shader can use tiles for the details, which means the UV map does not matter. You could apply the PBR shader to Genesis 1,2,3 as well, or even Victoria 3 if you wanted to. Or a banana.

I just want you guys to understand that most of what you are buying here is marketing. Even the face rig that 8.1 uses has roots in 8.0 as a purchased product. So why be bothered by a character actually being for 8.0? You can simply load that character on 8.1 and get all of the advertised benefits of 8.1.

After all, just because a character is 8.1 does not mean that character uses PBR Skin Shader. That is the PA's choice to use it or not.

Thus the advertising on the character is not technically wrong, because this character CAN be used for 8.1, just like all 8.0 characters can be. It may be a bit misleading, but I believe this PA is not a native English speaker and is perhaps as confused as many customers are about 8.1. IMO Daz has failed to create a clear guideline for them.

It's not about the shader but the new UVs; the extra map (the head) is there to give better detail around the neck. 

 

Shader & UV improvements

• Genesis 8.1 adds a new PBR (Physically Based Rendering) skin shader.
• The Genesis 8.1 skin shader introduces improvements for Subsurface Scattering (less waxy skin), resulting in incredibly lifelike skin.
• Added support to leverage MicroSkin tiling micro normal maps from our partners at Texturing.xyz
• New processes and resources in our pipeline have been added to ensure details between sculpts and textures better match, resulting in greater realism.
• Updated UVs for better pixel density and better seams.
• All these combined create a better looking skin in Genesis 8.1.
• Update your Daz Studio Default Resources package (DIM or DazCentral) to 4.15+ to access our new skin shader for Genesis 8.1 characters.

taken from: https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-8-1 ;

...so now instead of having a seam that is hidden almost entirely by hair, you now have a seam that runs and smacks you upside the face by going right across the collarbone. I still don't see how that's a good change. 

If the pixel density were such a huge issue as to be noticeable on a super close-up (I've never even noticed it as an issue when composing any of my pieces), one could have simply upscaled the body to 8k to off-set the 4k head map. It's not the best solution in the world, but with the improved upscale algorithms out there, it's a better option than putting a seam across the collarbone, imo.  

MelissaGT

WendyLuvsCatz said:

well PBR is simply physically based rendering

so not limited to just iray shaders just the shaders themselves may be

Octane is also a physically based render engine yet neither set of shaders really suit that it converts some not all.

I think the primary issue with the name of the new shader is that folks who don't know better are lead to believe that the 'Uber Shader' is somehow less than the 'PBR Shader'...rather than simply being different. Even though both are PBR. Most folks don't play around in texture-land and use stuff out of the box, so they wouldn't realize that it's just a play at words on Daz's part and so they are mislead. 

It would have been better to use a name like Zazzle Shader or Pure Skin Shader or something...anything other than 'PBR'. 

Richard Haseltine

Closing this as it has become unduly heated.