Real 8.1 or masquerading as one?
nicstt
Posts: 11,715
https://www.daz3d.com/bloom-hd-for-genesis-81-female
I like Colm Jackson's character, but I'm trying to build up a collection of 8.1 characters - not 8.0 put on 8.1; so which UVs is Bloom?
https://www.daz3d.com/nahrah-for-genesis-8.1-female - not 8.1; shame as she looks interesting.
Post edited by nicstt on
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Comments
You made me take a second look at Nahrah. The warpaint (?) texture is interesting, but the unpainted texture is striking. And Bloom is nice, too. I like Colm Jackson's style. A lot of the more interesting new characters seem to be G8.1, so I guess I'll have to get up to date.
The first thing I checked was the materials listed. It noted 'Iray' only. So I gave her a pass.
Is it possible that the 8.1 refers to the character being able to use the facial poses?
I haven't had much time to explore and test the new characters and I am getting a bit leery of buying a character. I bought Leon HD for Genesis 8.1 Male only because there was a clear listing of materials and when I looked in his materials in DS, that is what I found. I also found an extra character for G8M too.
I don't think you'll see a lot of PAs making 3DL materials for 8.1. Unless you're referring to the 8.1 Newber Shader. That's not really a selling point for some of us. Different strokes.
Nahrah's unpainted texture is built using Zev0's Skin Builder, so just buy that if it's just the skin that interests you - you'll get a lot more customisation options to build your own (reflected in the price, of course).
I know you're passionate about this particular issue, but it isn't necessary to raise the subject on the forum every time
As I observed on a previous occasion, you can check the File List in the official Daz documentation* - http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/80684/file_list - and infer from that which UVs are in use, as well as whether the figure has the additional textures PBRSkin can use.
*If you have Daz Deals installed on your browser, the readme is linked from next to the SKU. Although I'll admit this really should be a standard feature in the store (but then, so should most of Daz Deals).
Not copying and pasting the large number of eye/makeup options, she has the following texture files:
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomFull—ArmsN_1004.png
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomFull—FaceN_1001.png
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomFull—LegsN_1003.png
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomFull—TorsoN_1002.png
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomFull–Arms_1004.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomFull–ArmsB_1004.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomFull–ArmsS_1004.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomFull–ArmsSSS_1004.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomFull–EyesIrisGradient_1006.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomFull–EyesPupilGradient_1006.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomFull–EyesRealIris1_1006.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomFull–EyesRealIris_B_1006.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomFull–EyesRealSclera_1006.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomFull–EyesRealSclera_B_1006.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomFull–Face_1001.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomFull–FaceB_1001.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomFull–FaceS_1001.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomFull–FaceSSS_1001.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomFull–Legs_1003.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomFull–LegsB_1003.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomFull–LegsS_1003.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomFull–LegsSSS_1003.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomFull–Mouth_1005.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomFull–MouthB_1005.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomFull–Torso_1002.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomFull–TorsoB_1002.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomFull–TorsoS_1002.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomFull–TorsoSSS_1002.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomLashes–Eyelash_0_1001.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomNails–Arms_1004.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/Colm Jackson/Bloom/Iray/CJ–BloomNails–Legs_1003.jpg
Face and Torso, so 8.0 UV with 8.1 shader?
There's no separate textures for the head or neck, so it's going to be 8.0 UVs.
There's also no additional detail or AO maps for the PBRSkin shader; this is not necessarily to say it's not using the PBRSkin shader, as the shader can be used with the same maps as Iray Uber (and, indeed, on any model or surface - V4, Daz Dog, a plane primitive), but if you're hunting for the additional maps the shader can use, it doesn't include them.
I am sorry, not awake and not enough coffee when I wrote that. I was referring to what I saw on Leon HD where Emrys did an excellent job on giving the buyer a clear idea up front of what was included. I have had little use for 3DL materials, since I started in DS after Iray was in progress. I tried but got frustrated with the results of 3DL.
Mary
I'm sorry my posts aren't to your tastes, just don't read em.
When I checked the read me and files - they weren't available. I do have the deals, and as I said they didn't show.
But seriously, if a customer has check the fine-print of a product to see if it uses all of the features as being advertised as important to the new 8.1 - there is something seriously wrong.
I'm not passionate about it; what i want is accurate naming conventions. Daz release a new feature and accept products that don't implement those features yet are happy for them to bare the monica.
Just to verify. Bloom does not include PBR Skin Shader settings and she does not use the 8.1 UV set.
I don't disagree, but at this stage, the question can be resolved faster than having to ask. (Should the Read Me be missing, and the documentation site not sort itself out by being hard-refreshed*, then the staff/mods would probably appreciate it being reported).
* As it's only supposed to go live with the products, but doesn't usually get high traffic, it's not uncommon for the placeholders to stick in the cache for some time after launch. Unfortunately, that's one of the oddities of how internet servers have to work to deal with any but the most minimal traffic.
I would wholeheartedly support a drive to get Daz to better standardise their product descriptions and include more information, but topics with titles like "Real 8.1 or masquerading as one?" don't strike me as the best way to grab Daz's attention. (Particularly as we know they don't exhaustively read the forums). I'd actually say a better method would be to do something like report it as an incomplete description on the sale issues thread, as that's somewhere that does get checked and information does get passed on.
As far as products bearing the moniker... well, it is still G8.1F as far as compatibility with versions of DS is concerned; calling it a G8.0 when it loads on G8.1 just isn't cricket when that may stop it working properly on some people's systems.
Yes, the details should be added to the description to make them more accessible, but as far as when the product is described as "New Character for Genesis (Insert number here)", I don't think it's viable for Daz to do anything other than call a figure like this a G8.1 figure.
well calling them 8.1 stops me buying them at least, because even if they are 8, I cannot risk them being very difficult to convert to Carrara if they are.
or limited in use in my earlier stable builds for my Nvidia Card of DAZ studio.
@richardandtracy it's possible to get a monetary refund, you just have to request in your ticket that it's credited to the pay method. It does take more time to get the credit. Several days for the refund to reach the card issuer plus several more days for the issuer to update your account.
Was that Monica Bellucci or Monica from Friends?
I totally agree with you.
+
opposite reasons as stated but yeah ambiguity loses a sale from me too
History suggests that no standardization is forthcoming, and we will have to use the workaround of refreshing the Read Me page until we can read it. C'est la Daz.
There doesn't seem to be any displacement, detail, height, or normal maps for the details setting, no AO specular maps either, so not taking advantage of the PBR settings whatsoever seems to be the norm for the majority of these "8.1 characters..." Aside from the head texture maps, it might as well be just another genesis 8 character that still uses Uber iray shaders...
This is just as well as you can easily save your money and simply make your own detail/AO height and normal maps using the freeware materialize program and follow the UV tile patterns set forth with Daz's own V8.1 for the details, otherwise, they will turn out funky, but still, I would have loved to see third party solutions for V8.1's detail masks.
Sadly, it looks like it will be a while for most "genesis 8.1" PAs to take advantage of the full potential of the PBR settings, due to the majority of users that don't even use the much more realistic PBR rendering modes, let alone the PBR shaders that work wonders with spectral rendering; sucks to see all that wasted potential in favor for the auto-art-button-default settings...
EDIT: My mistake, it is an 8.0 character as it still uses torso maps... so to answer your question; it's masquerading as one!
I have made my own; a stylised skin texture; works decently too, but stil haven't managed a render I'm close to happy with.
Thanks for the link; I find photoshop can make good normal maps, using Nvidia's plugin, which works in CS6 - but options are always good.
Yeah, I got turned on with that prog a little while ago, it's the best freeware version alternative to Crazy bump and MindText 2 that I've found so far, too bad the genesis 8.0 is actually masquerading as an 8.1 char pack, it seems that Pandora is a true 8.1 character pack though, also Raiya has actual 8.1 characters as well!
There's an addon to converto Iray to 3DL in the store. I only mention this as it is on my wishlist. I put it there as there may come a day when I want to use an alternate render engine and the Iray materials won't cut the mustard. Have you explored it? It might expand your choices.
Hello all. Nahrah IS real 8.1 character. (you can use the Face Control) The shaders only are 8.0 to keep compatibility to previous 8.0 G8F so is possible to use that skin on 8.0 characters, not viceversa. Simply you change UV Set from 8.0 to 8.1 and you can load any PBRskin shader.
Thank you.
Dax Avalange
Not sure why anyone would even want to use the 1/10th UVs. More seams and an additional map (bad for memory, bad for game engines) for a small raise in resolution of an area thats usually half to completely obscured, while no change to the rest. It's not like it's a complete overhaul or a massive improvement for the expense.
Though I wish some things on the store were better labelled. I don't like dforce "strand" hair, but I like normal hairs with dforce, but they're often mislabelled and somewhat indistinguisable (some "cloth" hairs have had "dforce hair" in the software, and probably still do). They could call them "dHair" or "SBDForce hair" or something more distinct.
You can get refunds with real money on request~!
Werd....
And add to that the fact that they moved the seam from underneath the jawline, where it's pretty much hidden, to right across the collarbone. Because that makes sense.
I prefer the G8F/G8M original UV (which is the same UV as the base G3F/G3M)...you can work around the resolution issue between the head and body if it's that much of an issue (upscale algorithms work unless you're looking at the skin through a macro lens). I'll take that over a seam across the fraggling chest any day.
Yeh, there should be, must be, a clear indication on the product page without having to look through the list of materials.
All you other G8's, are just imitating
So won't the real 8.1, please stand up
Please stand up, please stand up