Searching for a 3090 desktop...and clueless
hexattack
Posts: 0
Hello, everyone!
To get right into it, I'm complletely computer illiterate. My current machine, this alienware aurora r7, was something I lucked into getting and I had no idea it would be good for Daz studio. It's not able to handle things I'd like to do (comic creation, animation) in a timely manner though, so I've been saving up to upgrade to a desktop with a rtx3090 card that will ideally take my render time from hours to minutes (or seconds in some cases). I've gotten to a place where I've saved up around 5k I'm comfortable spending on a machine.
Thing is...I'm just a complete idiot when it comes to tech. Proper places to buy it, what should I make sure is included with the 3090, etc. Building something on my own is a total impossibility! I don't want to mess up buying this PC after a good year and a half of scrimping and saving... so I'm desperate for guidance. Are there any desktops from reputable places (buying via Amazon terrifies me) one could direct me toward?
Other than Daz, I use my desktop for video editing/creation video resources for my students, photoshop art and some light gaming. I'm thinking maybe the machine below? But, again, clueless... I'm just really hoping to get something that'll cut my rendering time down drastically.Thank you for your help!
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Comments
5k on which currency and which corner of the world?
One of the challenges at this point in time is that due to the crypto-craziness, prices of high powered GPU's are through the roof, if you can even find one in stock.
Also, something to consider...if you really want to reduce render times drastically without the huge hardware costs (and often with results that far exceed the GPU render time improvements), and also provide far more artistic control over your final images, you might want to consider using post-production and compositing techniques. There's also scene management, which can be closely coupled to post production, where you vastly simplify your scene and break it into layers, then re-combine them later in a post production software (Photoshop, Nuke, etc.). And that gives you far more control over render-intensive stuff like shadows and color adjustments and depth-of-field and blur and so on. DAZ Studio has some wonderful, built-in capabilities to render in layers using what they call "Cavases", found in the Render Settings/Advanced section.
Along with this is the recognition of stuff like the fact that rendering inside a closed cube (like a room or building) can vastly increase render times. So maybe you can manage your scene to make your shot include just a wall, not an enclosed space.
There's a whole universe of non-hardware options that the pros use, and that might save you a ton of $$, so it might be worth considering.
Otherwise, if you want to opt for a hardware solution, it might be quite a challenge to find a high-end GPU for a reasonable price, and for Iray that's pretty much the key feature you'll need.
@PerttiA- I'm so sorry for my lack of information! I'm currently in the United States of America, so I'm speaking in USD.
@ebergerly- Thank you for your response! I've been slowly learning to work with Canvas, but still feel that my current 1070 isn't able to keep up with renders to explore them effectively. It's frustrating to render to canvases and have to wait 4 hours for everything to get done to get into post work! I will very much try more walll only renders. At this point, I'm thinking I'd like to invest in a computer I'd only use for renders (my current desktop is used for more than renders)
I got an Alienware Aurora R11 with a 3090 and I LOVE IT!
I have the same Alienware computer only in black and it truly is amazing.
How is it speed wise, Jeni!? Average render time? I'm a total nincompoop with tech, so am looking for something fast and strong right out the gates until I gain the knowledge to open my PC and add parts in the future.
Well for example I ran the benchmark scene here in the forums from the benchmark thread with my old computer, which was a Quadro M4000 (intel i7) and it took 48 minutes
I ran the same scene with my 3090 and it took 1 min 30 sec!
My daughter's 2080 laptop the same scene took about 6 minutes.
My renders that I would let render overnight for at least 8-10 hours now take about 15-20 minutes...30 if it's a big scene.
It's crazy fast!
There's a review of that PC here. It looks like a real beast!
Another vote for Alienware here. I have a 2080 laptop. It's built right and can easily be opened up for upgrades and so forth. So if you ever want to add SSD space, memory, etc, it's very simple and very organized. And the instructions cover anything and everything I might need to do. Replace keyboard, replace memory, replace hard drive, wifi chip, cpu or gpu fans, and on and on.
The included Dell management and update software is also convenient. Chipset drivers, BIOS updates, etcetera, all easy to do.
If you don't want to build a machine from scratch but you want to have a platform that's easy to live with and modify down the road, I would definitely recommend Alienware.
Oh that is a good review. It's funny it says ..."It’s powerful, but you’ll hear it coming."
And it definitely sounds like it's going to take off LOL.
I got the 34 inch curved Monitor to go with it (in white to match) and my husband says my office has a Cowboys and Aliens theme going on now LOL
...
Yeah, you'll hear it coming when those fans are running for sure! I don't know how they're building their systems nowadays, but from my past experience with Dell: Too-much-BLOATWARE & proprietary nonsense.
I'm currently in the process of having a custom desktop built with a RTX 3090. BeQuiet 280mm cooler for the cpu, 140mm rear exhaust + 2x 140mm front intakes for the case(all Noctua). Plus the Windows10 pro OS will have the updates disabled so nothing gets messed up.
But the OP says he can't build his own, in which case, seeing as he's in the USA, Alienware would be a good choice. And if they fuck it up he can always send it back. Everything comes with bloatware there days.
I always custom build my own desktops, the only difference to what you've mentioned above would be a Noctua cooler for the CPU as well as the other fans, once you go Noctua you never go back.
Steve.
They could have cheaped out on the PSU, the most important component in the PC, plus do you know what motherboard/CPU/RAM you have?
Plus Alienware is well known to be over-priced for what you get, you're better off shopping at iBuypower or cyberpower PC, but then again, you need to do research into the components that go into the PC, so there will always be some work on your part in order to get the best bang for your buck, otherwise, you will waste money on a PC which you have no idea of what's even inside!
Also, I would seriously consider just referring to Jayz two cents on what to buy, and how to buy it...
EDIT: Only in the PC market do we have people that don't do research into the product that they end up spending thousands of dollars on!
OP could always pay a local shop to do it. That's what I did with my current build. And it ended up being cheaper all while being configured exactly how I wanted and with no bloatware or off-brand, generic parts. With Alienware you are literally paying for the name (which is Dell).
I have a build list put together to do it again too as soon as I can get my hands on a EVGA RTX 3090 FTW3 Ultra. I'm at the point where I could probably do it all myself (I paid the guy extra last time to have me build it with him and show me what to do)...but I have no interest in doing so. I'd rather pay someone to do it and still get out cheaper than buying Alienware *cough* Dell.
This^
It really helps though if the OP does some research into the parts and not rely totally on the shop, just like with auto shops there are those that will take advantage of people that are totally clueless about what the parts are and their market values, as buying a PC you should not get lazy as you will either get ripped off or overpay for a sub-standard PC!
No I'm not building it. I'm having someone else build it for me.
Alienware certainly isn't the worst choice, but they're way overpriced(especially when it comes to replacing parts outside of warranty) and you're never 100% sure of what you're getting in regards to hardware quality. Their power supplies & storage drives are probably still generic with questionable reliability. I also noticed they're using RAID 0 in most of their laptop storage options, which is rather stupid imo.
Given the stuff I've read about them in the past, I probably wouldn't recommend iBuypower or Cyberpower PC. In general, I think its better to have a reliable local shop order the parts & build it. This way if it needs servicing, you don't have to deal with shipping, which can have its own issues(mishandling, cost, etc.)
Local shops are probably having a tough a time finding graphics boards, just like the rest of us. It's the big companies that were able to grab a big stock of the new graphics cards as they came out, before the miners gobbled the rest of them up.
I priced up a comparable build through an online configurator (CyberPowerPC, OriginPC) and it came up to what I'd spend anyways if I were to buy parts on my own, including paying double MSRP on a scalped 3090. The difference is that on my own, I get exactly the name-brand part I want, not just what they have in stock, which is often the base board models. I haven't seen any build houses offering the EVGA 3090 FTW3 Ultra.
I agree that local shops can be helpful, but definitely not all shops, I live in a small city that is computer illiterate for the most part, and all of the local shops use non-disclosed used parts and over-charge, in short, it's like your typical shady auto mechanic... (We have those too!)
So if you are going to use them you will get ripped off if you totally leave the building in their hands, that is why I preferred Cyberpower PC as they have a robust configure menu that lists DIY parts with prices included at MSRP for the most part, and you can get name-brand PSUs and the like as well!
The bad press they have is due to them not being noob-friendly as you have to do your research on parts before you buy from their website, as you need to know what you're getting, people should not go into this blind, buying a PC gives as much as you put into it if you want to overpay or get ripped off then just buy an alienware or go unprepared to a PC builder shop!
~ + 1 ~ looks good .....
and could be worth looking at Dell Refurbished , thanx
https://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnlineSales/Online/InventorySearch.aspx?c=us&cs=22&l=en&s=dfh&brandid=2202&sign=PXhcOSHtr1T4IOw/PR7Udal8Uc4AoRjFSliiPmWFpx6zoKFbhMzRlyCwgZhbw/NrA0nNYYfDCpTLBCnVxQVEuH1T3CIcg+EKpMy3OawdcNlgKvX6T7bNM5bJrAhRQwrn20PB8Tw4LmYfn1jz7ZDlY/LwdDHPcErYN34PC2J+OJyTAV+KoJRyY3YNTc7lpDWMfWz3FevNOwhkN2aKDpzTVcnbb1iOT09weJVNkLtoyNg=
Its cetainly tough to find any RTX cards right now.
Those are underpowered dinosaurs with old parts, dell is the bottom of the barrel, especially since there isn't any way to know which motherboard, and PSU you're getting!
As the PSU is the most vital part of the PC and no one should cheap out on their PSU!
I have Dell Aurora R7. Originaly was 2xGTX1080 and I got blower version RTX 3090. I took one GTX and left second one. PSU I have is 850W with cpu water cooling. Computer works fine. Case is very small but because it's blower version there is no big problem. Temperatures for GPU are between 70-75 degrees (c). It's little noisy but all blowers are loud. It barerly fit inside. There is no any gap between card and front fan but I am happy I could utilise current computer
The PSU is important in keeping the computer running, but when it comes to how it's running, I would rate the chipset on the motherboard as the most important, which you have no clue of if you don't even know which motherboard is inside.
I got my Dell as refurbished and I could choose what PSU I get so of course you will know. Also on the order confirmation there is full spec of the PC
I have Dell Aurora R7. Originaly was 2xGTX1080 and I got blower version RTX 3090. I took one GTX and left second one. PSU I have is 850W with cpu water cooling. Computer works fine. Case is very small but because it's blower version there is no big problem. Temperatures for GPU are between 70-75 degrees (c). It's little noisy but all blowers are loud. It barerly fit inside. There is no any gap between card and front fan but I am happy I could utilise current computer
Not only in keeping the PC running, but it is vital that you do not cheap out on them as a bad PSU can at best, shut down your PC and at worst, a fire hazard, also a PSU malfunction can take out your motherboard as well as the other components such as HDDs, GPUs, etc...
There is a long running Iray Benchmark thread in our forums. https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/341041/daz-studio-iray-rendering-hardware-benchmarking/p1
You can download and test the scene for yourself, and then compare your numbers to the numbers of other users for that same scene and version of Daz. Actually, we have not had a recent 1070 test in a long time, so if you don't mind, it would be nice if you could take the test and post your marks. This would help us all, because having current data is always welcome, and you will have an idea of what kind of performance you may get with a 3090.
The 3090 is a beast card. It is physically huge, uses a lot more elecitricity, and as a result creates a lot more heat. All of these things have to be factored into building it, and while a PC builder should be capable of doing this, you do run the risk of a shady PC builders skimping out on one aspect to save themselves money. The 3090 can generate over 400 WATTS of power all by itself, that is getting into the range of a small space heater. So not only do you need to have it built right, but you need to keep your PC in a well ventilated space so it can breath. Don't have it right up against a wall or in some cabinet, unless you want your PC to suffer an early death.
The problem with buying PC parts right now is that right now is historically the worst possible time to build a PC. You may get lucky...seriously, you will need an element of luck to get all of these parts. That includes your builder. Your local PC builder is going to have many of the same issues obtaining parts as well. GPUs are being sold for unbelievable prices right now. Cards are going for two or three times the price they are supposed to be. 3090s are going for over $3000, and more. While you have a $5K budget, I would hate to give a scalper that hard earned money for just one part.
I don't want to sound like everything is all doom and gloom, but things really are bad right now, and we don't know when things will improve.
Besides, with $5K under normal conditions, you could take things a step further. What is better than a 3090? How about two 3090s? Iray can use as many GPUs as you can throw at it (as long as they each have enough VRAM). So with $5k you could actually buy TWO 3090s and have a solid machine. Of course with two 3090s your heat output will be even higher, so cooling is even more important, not to mention you can heat up your whole room. That might not be good if you are in a hot area in the summer. But if you want real speed, you can go for it.
So this is my recommendation, you need to consider the possibility of adding a 2nd GPU, either now or later. Because the fastest upgrade is often adding a second GPU. You can even use your 1070 with a 3090 if you so desired. I'm not sure how much it would help, but the possibility is there. If you think you can do two or more GPUs at some point, then ask your builder to use parts that will let you expand later on. A motherboard that supports it, and a power supply that can handle multiple high performance GPUs. Make it clear to your builder that you are not playing video games and want a PC that is more capable.
At any rate...good luck. You will need it.