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  • watchdog79watchdog79 Posts: 1,026

    DAZ_Rawb said:

    It's been posted a few times in the NFT thread, but people seem to be talking at each other instead of to each other over there so I'll repeat it here:

     

    Without getting explicit approval, Daz will not be listing any of your gallery images as NFT's. 

    Like... clicking "Yes" to EULA? Which may get changed at any time?

    Yes, I am concerned. I am considering deleting the handful of images in my Daz Gallery too. I am still hesitant, but the more I think about the situation, the less I like the possible consequences of the current actiaons by Daz and the possibility of "other avenues" in the future.

  • davesodaveso Posts: 7,172

    my posts get deleted when I speak about this stuff, and I'm overall done with the forums. Yes, it is very difficult to express disapproval of things happening here. It is possible to file a ticket, which I've done and expressed my feelings, but that does not illicit a response either. It is a fact there is no other recourse but to slow down or stop purchasing here. I've been a member of DAZ since before they were DAZ, and that's a very long time, but I'm also not feeling the love as things have slowly migrated to overall business only feeling, as well as here on the forums. 

    In the defense of DAZ, overall their pricing, although getting higher, is more than fair for the customer. Their product line is top notch, especially for the level we're on, if a hobbyist, and probably equals or exceeds most professional products and models and with a much lower price point.

    Back to forums..i much prefer open forums where a person is allowed to freely express their feelings and thoughts, not to injure but to try to persuade changes or to express dissatisfaction. I'll leave it at that. 

  • WolfwoodWolfwood Posts: 787
    edited March 2021

    DAZ_Rawb said:

    It's been posted a few times in the NFT thread, but people seem to be talking at each other instead of to each other over there so I'll repeat it here:

     

    Without getting explicit approval, Daz will not be listing any of your gallery images as NFT's. 

    1- People are talking to each other. I can see several people asking question, being responded, reading and then making an opinion. The fact that your arguments are not solid does not mean they are simply ranting. Some of your "arguments" came late, so late that it looks like you (i mean Daz, not you) only now decided to researched on the subject trying to defend yourself; instead of actually knowing what you were getting into before actually starting all this.

    2- As already said before, changes to EULA, TOS and privacy policies can happen any moment. It comes to belive then....So, what is your (again, daz) word worth? Only 5 Days ago instead of being open on the subject you decided to divert the issue saying the article was just "informative". Biased would be more accurate. And since i don't want to be said that i make "False acusations based on speculation", here is give the evidence:

    2021-03-30 15_44_17-NFT and the Future of Digital Content - Daz 3D Blog.png
    1277 x 680 - 75K
    Post edited by Wolfwood on
  • davesodaveso Posts: 7,172
    edited March 2021

    and, back to OP, it would be nice if it were a bit easier to delete things in one wants to...like go to your gallery and check the box that says "delete gallery". Done. simple
    Same with the forums. you can;t even quit without goiong through some hoops. I can see that deleting messages within threads can disrupt the continuity of ideas, or even delete useful information, but it should be left up to the "customer" if they want their words and posts to remain or not. 

    On Facebook, if you delete a post, all replies to that post are also deleted, which is then a good thing so the idea isn't dangling there. 

    Post edited by daveso on
  • Jason GalterioJason Galterio Posts: 2,562

    daveso said:

    and, back to OP, it would be nice if it were a bit easier to delete things in one wants to...like go to your gallery and check the box that says "delete gallery". Done. simple
    Same with the forums. you can;t even quit without goiong through some hoops. I can see that deleting messages within threads can disrupt the continuity of ideas, or even delete useful information, but it should be left up to the "customer" if they want their words and posts to remain or not. 

    On Facebook, if you delete a post, all replies to that post are also deleted, which is then a good thing so the idea isn't dangling there. 

    Isn't there an EU law that requires there be the ability for the user to be "forgotten?"

    I know I had to write that into code for at least one international website.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,745

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    we cannot use our words to express our disproval so all we have left are our actions angry

    Of courtse you can - there are two long threads to show that. However, any negative comments still have to obey the forum ToS.

  • BradCarstenBradCarsten Posts: 856

    Why would Daz automatically list your images for sale? They do not own the copyright to those images so this would open up a floodgate of lawsuits. why would Daz do that? As for the technology itself, Daz didn't invent it. Anyone can take any image you post, even from Facebook and list it as NFT art. Deleting your galley will make no difference. All Daz is doing is giving you the option to sell digital "exclusive images" to people that are looking to buy them. I don't know who these people are, but they are apparently out there. If you don't want to sell your images, then don't list them. This is no different from Daz giving you a quick and easy way to list your images on shutterstock. 

  • SeraSera Posts: 1,675

    BradCarsten said:

    Why would Daz automatically list your images for sale? They do not own the copyright to those images so this would open up a floodgate of lawsuits. why would Daz do that? As for the technology itself, Daz didn't invent it. Anyone can take any image you post, even from Facebook and list it as NFT art. Deleting your galley will make no difference. All Daz is doing is giving you the option to sell digital "exclusive images" to people that are looking to buy them. I don't know who these people are, but they are apparently out there. If you don't want to sell your images, then don't list them. This is no different from Daz giving you a quick and easy way to list your images on shutterstock. 

    Where is the option to sell NFTs through Daz? As far as I can tell, you have to go to Opensea for that. Daz is selling their own NFTs. Not yours. 

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,045

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    we cannot use our words to express our disproval so all we have left are our actions angry

    yet...

  • BradCarstenBradCarsten Posts: 856

    certaintree38 said:

    BradCarsten said:

    Why would Daz automatically list your images for sale? They do not own the copyright to those images so this would open up a floodgate of lawsuits. why would Daz do that? As for the technology itself, Daz didn't invent it. Anyone can take any image you post, even from Facebook and list it as NFT art. Deleting your galley will make no difference. All Daz is doing is giving you the option to sell digital "exclusive images" to people that are looking to buy them. I don't know who these people are, but they are apparently out there. If you don't want to sell your images, then don't list them. This is no different from Daz giving you a quick and easy way to list your images on shutterstock. 

    Where is the option to sell NFTs through Daz? As far as I can tell, you have to go to Opensea for that. Daz is selling their own NFTs. Not yours. 

    Well then, there is even less to worry about. Either way, I'm not really interested in buying digital art, but I don't see how this will negatively affect any of us. 

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,316

    If you enjoy your DAZ Gallery & posting to the forum keep at it. The other folk in the forum and gallery don't run DAZ 3D. Anyway, who cares if they sell NFTs, they ain't doing wrong in selling it. And when a seller is breaking the law charges should be filed against the perpetrator. Advertising and publicity agencies costs a fortune too and are being used disengeniously too by some extremely rich people for purposes other than advertising. Most advertising though is still 100% legit (if still ineffective laugh)

  • AbyssalErosAbyssalEros Posts: 289

    I just want to throw in that I delete my DAZ gallery also, as I do not feel welcome here — and because I do not support the road DAZ is going with NFT.

    I can live with the fact that my old signature was deleted some time ago because it included links to websites with allegedly unwanted, aka pornographic material open to the public. In fact, there is and was none visible — only at Patreon, and that content is and was twice hidden, first behind the adult gateway security mechanism and then behind a paywall to keep everyone out from just strolling by.

    But now, a forum moderator openly discriminates against adult content creators like me in the NFT thread. Seems the morals of DAZ Productions, Inc. are very judgemental in some fields. But discrimination stays discrimination.

    It seems I just can hope for the future that they will not ban me from buying and downloading what I bought because I am an adult creator or forbid me to use the assets in the way I use them — or for this post.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,588

    Oso3D said:

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    we cannot use our words to express our disproval so all we have left are our actions angry

    yet...

    9 emails today Tim 

  • WolfwoodWolfwood Posts: 787

    BradCarsten said:

    certaintree38 said:

    BradCarsten said:

    Why would Daz automatically list your images for sale? They do not own the copyright to those images so this would open up a floodgate of lawsuits. why would Daz do that? As for the technology itself, Daz didn't invent it. Anyone can take any image you post, even from Facebook and list it as NFT art. Deleting your galley will make no difference. All Daz is doing is giving you the option to sell digital "exclusive images" to people that are looking to buy them. I don't know who these people are, but they are apparently out there. If you don't want to sell your images, then don't list them. This is no different from Daz giving you a quick and easy way to list your images on shutterstock. 

    Where is the option to sell NFTs through Daz? As far as I can tell, you have to go to Opensea for that. Daz is selling their own NFTs. Not yours. 

    Well then, there is even less to worry about. Either way, I'm not really interested in buying digital art, but I don't see how this will negatively affect any of us. 

    Some do have reasons to consider they may be affected:

    1- Let's give you an example: When people installed whatsapp it was one company with a particular business model, that changed. The new owner said that people should not worry because their info would not be shared. Rings any bell?

    2- Moral issues. There at least 3 concerns on the technology. Two (environment and hardware) may or may not be "solved" a near future (new issues may come), but daz decided to go now. Then is the volatility and potential scam nature of all this. So it may not affect you (o me) directly but if one considers it to be wrong, then you have a choice to say so and even take action. That is what some people are doing, expressing themself posting it and/or removing their art from the galery (be it to be safe of only as an statement).

  • plasma_ringplasma_ring Posts: 1,025

    certaintree38 said:

    BradCarsten said:

    Why would Daz automatically list your images for sale? They do not own the copyright to those images so this would open up a floodgate of lawsuits. why would Daz do that? As for the technology itself, Daz didn't invent it. Anyone can take any image you post, even from Facebook and list it as NFT art. Deleting your galley will make no difference. All Daz is doing is giving you the option to sell digital "exclusive images" to people that are looking to buy them. I don't know who these people are, but they are apparently out there. If you don't want to sell your images, then don't list them. This is no different from Daz giving you a quick and easy way to list your images on shutterstock. 

    Where is the option to sell NFTs through Daz? As far as I can tell, you have to go to Opensea for that. Daz is selling their own NFTs. Not yours. 

    Unless they're going to start paying people's gas fees, I don't think there's anything they can do to platform NFT artists here beyond maybe listing them eventually for visibility. But the Daz-using artists with enough pull to sell these are arguably better known than Daz is. 

    If they want to give artists a platform for selling their work, the easiest way would be to create a commercial forum for services. Every now and then someone wanders in offering a commission, and often I see them get discouraging responses--why would you want that, nobody will do that for you, etc.  An option in the gallery to license images for use like any of the creative market sites or stock sites would be helpful. Some sites selling book covers even have exclusivity, where there's only one sale for each cover and the buyer gets a unique product with all the deliverables. 

     

     

  • Mark_e593e0a5Mark_e593e0a5 Posts: 1,598

    Jason Galterio said:

    daveso said:

    and, back to OP, it would be nice if it were a bit easier to delete things in one wants to...like go to your gallery and check the box that says "delete gallery". Done. simple
    Same with the forums. you can;t even quit without goiong through some hoops. I can see that deleting messages within threads can disrupt the continuity of ideas, or even delete useful information, but it should be left up to the "customer" if they want their words and posts to remain or not. 

    On Facebook, if you delete a post, all replies to that post are also deleted, which is then a good thing so the idea isn't dangling there. 

    Isn't there an EU law that requires there be the ability for the user to be "forgotten?"

    I know I had to write that into code for at least one international website.

    It is a standard requirement for the whole of EU, as defined in the EU GDPR (EU General Data Protection Regulation). A company with a legal representation in the EU can be fined with up to 4% of the (worldwide) total GP of that company if they violate that. For companies not having any legal entitly in Europe this is no danger, though. It is, e.g. for FB or Google. 

  • WolfwoodWolfwood Posts: 787

    AbyssalEros said:

    ...
    It seems I just can hope for the future that they will not ban me from buying and downloading what I bought because I am an adult creator or forbid me to use the assets in the way I use them — or for this post.

    I doubt they would ban you from buying. Adult content creators are probably one of the biggest (if not the biggest) clients groups they have.

  • Jason GalterioJason Galterio Posts: 2,562

    Mark_e593e0a5 said:

    Jason Galterio said:

    daveso said:

    and, back to OP, it would be nice if it were a bit easier to delete things in one wants to...like go to your gallery and check the box that says "delete gallery". Done. simple
    Same with the forums. you can;t even quit without goiong through some hoops. I can see that deleting messages within threads can disrupt the continuity of ideas, or even delete useful information, but it should be left up to the "customer" if they want their words and posts to remain or not. 

    On Facebook, if you delete a post, all replies to that post are also deleted, which is then a good thing so the idea isn't dangling there. 

    Isn't there an EU law that requires there be the ability for the user to be "forgotten?"

    I know I had to write that into code for at least one international website.

    It is a standard requirement for the whole of EU, as defined in the EU GDPR (EU General Data Protection Regulation). A company with a legal representation in the EU can be fined with up to 4% of the (worldwide) total GP of that company if they violate that. For companies not having any legal entitly in Europe this is no danger, though. It is, e.g. for FB or Google. 

    Okay, that makes sense. I know I had to make a provision for it. It was probably applied globally just to keep it simple. 

  • BradCarsten said:

    Well then, there is even less to worry about. Either way, I'm not really interested in buying digital art, but I don't see how this will negatively affect any of us. 

    Have you checked any of the NFT listings? They include 3D assets. My worry is that Daz will start selling certain assets exclusively as NFT's.

  • SevrinSevrin Posts: 6,310

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    Oso3D said:

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    we cannot use our words to express our disproval so all we have left are our actions angry

    yet...

    9 emails today Tim 

    Overachiever 

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500

    Wicked Whomp said:

    BradCarsten said:

    Well then, there is even less to worry about. Either way, I'm not really interested in buying digital art, but I don't see how this will negatively affect any of us. 

    Have you checked any of the NFT listings? They include 3D assets. My worry is that Daz will start selling certain assets exclusively as NFT's.

    Well, I asked a similar question in the other thread and was quickly "reassured". I'm not convinced by the reassurance yet, however. 

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,745

    marble said:

    Wicked Whomp said:

    BradCarsten said:

    Well then, there is even less to worry about. Either way, I'm not really interested in buying digital art, but I don't see how this will negatively affect any of us. 

    Have you checked any of the NFT listings? They include 3D assets. My worry is that Daz will start selling certain assets exclusively as NFT's.

    Well, I asked a similar question in the other thread and was quickly "reassured". I'm not convinced by the reassurance yet, however. 

    The NFT doesn't change the thing it is made from, which remains as it was and so doesn't gain any protection. Using an NFT as a key to enable the content in a specific application (assuming the content was supplied in a non-readable form) would not be practical, as Daz_Rawb has explained seveal times, and wouldn't do anything that encrypted Connect content didn't do as far as I can see.

  • Richard Haseltine said:

    marble said:

    Wicked Whomp said:

    BradCarsten said:

    Well then, there is even less to worry about. Either way, I'm not really interested in buying digital art, but I don't see how this will negatively affect any of us. 

    Have you checked any of the NFT listings? They include 3D assets. My worry is that Daz will start selling certain assets exclusively as NFT's.

    Well, I asked a similar question in the other thread and was quickly "reassured". I'm not convinced by the reassurance yet, however. 

    The NFT doesn't change the thing it is made from, which remains as it was and so doesn't gain any protection. Using an NFT as a key to enable the content in a specific application (assuming the content was supplied in a non-readable form) would not be practical, as Daz_Rawb has explained seveal times, and wouldn't do anything that encrypted Connect content didn't do as far as I can see.

    With all due respect, this isn't the DRM question that Rawb has explained several times, this is about the potential for DAZ asset content being exclusively sold through the NFT market. You say that it isn't practical, yet in the listings themselves written in black and white, clear as crystal, are mentions of said assets being included, as can be seen highlighted in the attached image.

    Can we then be assured that it isn't Daz' intention to sell future content exclusively through said NFT market? Again, that is my worry that I mention here. Nothing to do with DRM itself.

    listingdetails.png
    535 x 283 - 14K
  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500

    Richard Haseltine said:

    marble said:

    Wicked Whomp said:

    BradCarsten said:

    Well then, there is even less to worry about. Either way, I'm not really interested in buying digital art, but I don't see how this will negatively affect any of us. 

    Have you checked any of the NFT listings? They include 3D assets. My worry is that Daz will start selling certain assets exclusively as NFT's.

    Well, I asked a similar question in the other thread and was quickly "reassured". I'm not convinced by the reassurance yet, however. 

    The NFT doesn't change the thing it is made from, which remains as it was and so doesn't gain any protection. Using an NFT as a key to enable the content in a specific application (assuming the content was supplied in a non-readable form) would not be practical, as Daz_Rawb has explained seveal times, and wouldn't do anything that encrypted Connect content didn't do as far as I can see.

    Maybe but my point in the other thread was looking for clarity on the concept of original art. If a product for sale in the DAZ store might be considered original art and anythig produced using that product might be considered derivative, then might products be subject to NFT trading? 

  • SevrinSevrin Posts: 6,310

    marble said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    marble said:

    Wicked Whomp said:

    BradCarsten said:

    Well then, there is even less to worry about. Either way, I'm not really interested in buying digital art, but I don't see how this will negatively affect any of us. 

    Have you checked any of the NFT listings? They include 3D assets. My worry is that Daz will start selling certain assets exclusively as NFT's.

    Well, I asked a similar question in the other thread and was quickly "reassured". I'm not convinced by the reassurance yet, however. 

    The NFT doesn't change the thing it is made from, which remains as it was and so doesn't gain any protection. Using an NFT as a key to enable the content in a specific application (assuming the content was supplied in a non-readable form) would not be practical, as Daz_Rawb has explained seveal times, and wouldn't do anything that encrypted Connect content didn't do as far as I can see.

    Maybe but my point in the other thread was looking for clarity on the concept of original art. If a product for sale in the DAZ store might be considered original art and anythig produced using that product might be considered derivative, then might products be subject to NFT trading? 

    No.  The NFT does not imply a licence or confer copyright. 

  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,927
    edited March 2021
    The NFT is more like a certificate of authenticity attached to a print. Only a bit more difficult to forge. Probably. But I can't see how it's impossible to duplicate, getting two identical NFT's. Unless you never actually get the NFT you buy and it's held by someone else.
    Post edited by richardandtracy on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,745

    Wicked Whomp said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    marble said:

    Wicked Whomp said:

    BradCarsten said:

    Well then, there is even less to worry about. Either way, I'm not really interested in buying digital art, but I don't see how this will negatively affect any of us. 

    Have you checked any of the NFT listings? They include 3D assets. My worry is that Daz will start selling certain assets exclusively as NFT's.

    Well, I asked a similar question in the other thread and was quickly "reassured". I'm not convinced by the reassurance yet, however. 

    The NFT doesn't change the thing it is made from, which remains as it was and so doesn't gain any protection. Using an NFT as a key to enable the content in a specific application (assuming the content was supplied in a non-readable form) would not be practical, as Daz_Rawb has explained seveal times, and wouldn't do anything that encrypted Connect content didn't do as far as I can see.

    With all due respect, this isn't the DRM question that Rawb has explained several times, this is about the potential for DAZ asset content being exclusively sold through the NFT market. You say that it isn't practical, yet in the listings themselves written in black and white, clear as crystal, are mentions of said assets being included, as can be seen highlighted in the attached image.

    Can we then be assured that it isn't Daz' intention to sell future content exclusively through said NFT market? Again, that is my worry that I mention here. Nothing to do with DRM itself.

    I don't know exactly what that means, but I suspect it's a matter of unlocking as in geting a link (or maybe the NFT soemhow acts as a key for a fancy zip). I don't think theer is any way to make installed content depend on an NFT.

  • SeraSera Posts: 1,675

    If you sell the NFT, does the .OBJ go with it? Or is that a first sale thing only? 

  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 10,024

    marble said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    marble said:

    Wicked Whomp said:

    BradCarsten said:

    Well then, there is even less to worry about. Either way, I'm not really interested in buying digital art, but I don't see how this will negatively affect any of us. 

    Have you checked any of the NFT listings? They include 3D assets. My worry is that Daz will start selling certain assets exclusively as NFT's.

    Well, I asked a similar question in the other thread and was quickly "reassured". I'm not convinced by the reassurance yet, however. 

    The NFT doesn't change the thing it is made from, which remains as it was and so doesn't gain any protection. Using an NFT as a key to enable the content in a specific application (assuming the content was supplied in a non-readable form) would not be practical, as Daz_Rawb has explained seveal times, and wouldn't do anything that encrypted Connect content didn't do as far as I can see.

    Maybe but my point in the other thread was looking for clarity on the concept of original art. If a product for sale in the DAZ store might be considered original art and anythig produced using that product might be considered derivative, then might products be subject to NFT trading? 

    If you check the auction site, someone is selling a token for Oxford University... On a digital/virtual layer "Metaverse", where "unique identity tokens exist for every real estate and place on Earth" - So, someone is selling a token for my home there... frown

    As I see it the NFT's are just trading cards that can represent whatever someone has thought of it to represent, but buyer of an unique trading card still doesn't receive ownership of the thing/person pictured on the card.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,745

    certaintree38 said:

    If you sell the NFT, does the .OBJ go with it? Or is that a first sale thing only? 

    I have no idea, I don't actually know how the OBJ is going to be delivered. If you want to know for sure I would suggest asking Sales Support, though I will see if I can learn a bit more.

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