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Well that Flash / Air binding with IE in Poser will have to go away some time. Browsers are dropping flash and MS is going with Edge over IE with means IE will be dropped too, although IE's tight integration with many big businesses means that will take a while.
There is a reason for that...
Level 19, specifically, is a rather old prop, so it is following the standards that were in place when it was created (Um...yeah it's that Poser thing again...you know what I'm talking about....). Most of the 'insanity'/'wrong' folders/'extra' folders are actually because the items ARE in the correct locations...the actual, official spots...for WHEN THEY WERE RELEASED!. That's right folks...the 'default' locations have changed (almost with every major update of Studio, there have been 'tweaks'/reassignments). You can, if you are familiar enough with the changes over the years, actually roughly date when a product was released this way! Rarely, if ever, do the items get repackaged into the current preferred format.
And, frankly, many of the PAs (if any) wouldn't want to spend the time to repack everything, with every change...and a few that have repacked things, may have to do so again, with next change.
The theory of not worrying about WHERE the actual content is (with a few hard rules) and letting all the management tasks be handled by a database driven content browser is very sound AND much desired. Most of the problems with this approach are NOT the content/where it's located...Smart Content is only as smart as the metadata feeding the database. Also, with that approach there is no need to actually, manually rearrange ANYTHING...just change the database entries. There's around 20 yrs of using the old, Poser type system...the database approach is rather new and still has a lot of kinks to be worked out (and no, it's not going to happen overnight), but with each iteration of it, improvements have been made, and most importantly, the database can be manipulated (customized) without having to know/worry about what can and cannot be moved before the product is broken!
PS: Stonemason is a 'he'...
Yeah i know it's the "way things used to be done", but it still happens even today. I just used Stonemason's level 19 as it's one i know off the top of my head.
I'll have to take a look at my "old" content and see if i can pick out the date change thing.
I do agree that to repackage the products in the daz store would be as insurmountable as attempting to add meta-data to all the old products.
Let alone attempting to get other sites to start using it as well.
As far as "smart content" and data base for organization, there's actually a lot of problems with that approach, but i'll just touch on a few.
Don't get me wrong here i used to be a proponent of using smart content and meta-data and even learned the intracies of it to make my own.
i absolutely loved it.
Then i lost 6 months of organization, and to this day i can break even the postgresql database in less than a week.
now the issues
1. Database corruption. As many will know it's very easy to loose all that organization that we've spent time implementing. The constant writing and overwriting entries, making categories, removing categories and everything else we do with it can lead to corruption. Sometimes a single change to the database will corrupt the entire database.
2. Unconstrained data sets. Because the database in daz studio allows us to create our own categories and short cuts, this leads to an unlimited amount of data sets that can be implemented. The larger the number of data sets the higher potential of corruption and failure.
3. non-uniform implementation. In general for a database to function properly you need more hard and fast rules instead of less. The more lienent the rules the more potential for corruption and fragmentation.
4. Market fragmentation. Anybody can create content for daz studio and sell or give it away, without any need to implement any database files.
That's just a couple problems with databased management for programs like daz studio.
I still think it's a great concept.
Now a couple specifics to moving content.
When it comes to daz studio there's only two folders that you don't mess with, Data and Runtime/textures. Beyond that the placement of the rest are irrelevant.
And even the runtime/textures is not necessary in reality, it's just a hold over and used for conformity.
Poser files have the same ability in daz studio, but are more prone to breakage due to file/folder structure. Mostly this is due to the lack of rules in the past and present regarding anything past the base 10 folders. want to add a folder, do it as long as it works the company didn't and doesn't care.
Frankly a bit more uniformity in content placement, elimination of vanity folders and a few other things i can think of could greatly improve the user experience in daz studio andf improve workflow.
But it ain't gonna happen.
So i'll stick with manual installation and layout stuff the way i work.
I totally ignore the database and all that is associated with it. I've always manually installed my products, and can always find them.
1. I'm not sure what the problem is there...but Postgre is way more stable in that regard than Valentina was...
2. and 3. Probably a good idea, because implementing more hard rules for #3 should cut down/limit #2.
4. Doesn't have to be...
Setting up a wiki/github/cvs type system that can be community driven would go a long way to eliminating that. Especially if places can apply for and be issued a unique store_id. And it would be nice if there were, connected to this an online form to fill out that will generate the needed metadata files. Heck, even a manual entry offline editor that you just fill in the fields would be a boon for us freebie content providers.
1. yeah the postgre is massively more stable than valentina. the old valentina i could easily break in a day.
one bad entry or one bad write to it and poof.
The other problem is when there's a messup in an update, as demonstrated with the first release of 4.9 that had an error in it. That messed up a lot of people's databases.
2. The problem with implementing the hard/fast rules is that you loose the flexibility to adjust things to your workflow. And those of us that have a tendency to 'color outside the lines', workflow wise, wind up back to manual installation and custom layouts.
4. Doesn't have to be, but always will. The only way to avoid that is if there is no way to avoid the need for the meta-data files. It would have to tie back to the hard/fast rules and be hard coded in the software where content wouldn't work if it didn't have it.
Think about the way poser is laid out, content wise. Ignoring all the hacks and work arounds(I.e. mat pose). Characters(cr2) go under the library/character folder and corresponding button in poser. Hair(hr2) library/hair. etc.
In a perfect world if a file/folder is in the wrong place it doesn't appear under the corresponding button in poser.
That's how it's supposed to work.
But what defines a file as a particular type. Nothing more than the format it was saved under. Technically it's supposed to be a bit more defined but it isn't.
I've literally got hair files that are in cr2 format, hr2 format and pp2 format. The cr2 and hr2 formats are basically the same, containing the same rigging and morphs. While the pp2 can, in some cases only be missing some rigging and or morphs. and in a few cases it's not missing anything.
So even with "hard" rules there can still be problems.
As far as the community driven idea it's actually the opposite.
"Too many cooks spoil the broth."
With an open format like that the fragmentation would be exponential. With entries being able to be deleted, modified and added to by anybody at anytime.
Wikipedia is a great example of this. With bad/incorrect information, opinion only article that have no basis in reality, and some serious rabbits being pulled out of peoples butts. it's a mess.
And it's only getting worse.
I do however like the idea of a tool to generate the meta data files via form, the current method is rather time consuming.
Just a quick glance at the format and coding in the dsx files it's really fairly simple. Unless you look at something like the Starter essentials, 900000 lines of code for that one.
The only pitfalls i can see are the Global id and Product id values, as those would be defined by Daz3d.
seems fairly doable in Excel, may have to play around with that. no guarantees though.
I'm thinking more along the lines of WINE's AppDB...
is that wine as in Linux wine(wine is not an emulator)?
not familiar with that one so i got no point of reference.
been out of linux way too long
Yep...that WINE...not a nice California vintage (although a good red sound great right now).
DAZ and PA's should just make things easier for us. If I buy an item, it should be found in a folder with the name of the item I bought. If I buy a particular clothing ensemble, all the items should be grouped in a folder of the same item I bought.
I remember a time when I was a teenager. My parents were out shopping. I decided to impress them by making chocolate chip cookies for the first time. I saw a Crisco can on the stove, and used the contents in the cookie dough mix. This was a mistake since my parents regularly drained grease from hamburg (etc) into the Crisco can. But I kept telling myself "It says Crisco on the label!" To this day my parents still get a laugh out of that incident. I didn't make cookies for at least 20 years after that!
Not only that, lots of programs are dependent on the IE engine (WebBrowser control, part of NET Framework) internally.
Agreed, I have put both "My Libraries" (One from My docs, the second from Public) which has most of the same structural content as the "Content" folder, which itself, has some of the same content from the Daz initial install directory, all which is conveniently strewn across your C-Drive, Via my docs, Public folders, and the hidden app data dirs... :^P
D:= DAZ 3D_(64)+(32) Main install, plus, bryce, Hexagon, Carrarra, etc...
F: =(3D PROGS)>(IMPORT-EXPORT)>(DAZ)>(LIBRARIES) Which only contains readme's and my render library, which is why I consider "My library" a redundant folder/directory...
F: =(3D PROGS)>DAZ 3D_(64)>.DAZ CONTENT (IE formerly the"content folder")
F:= (CUSTOM SHIP...) xD Resides as a separate scene, char, puppeteer, etc location, basically negates "My Library..."
All I need to do is either manually unzip or via DIM from the content folder's file into my "Daz Content" and I know where every file is stored, So I do not even use the smart content/connect...Heh, Its' even possible to run both STUDIO 3AdvGR/4.0-4.9GR/Betas Side-by-side if one chooses to...Which I do not... ;^)
Agreed — I was thoroughly becroggled when I discovered the shiny new system Connect uses, and I haven't been in the least surprised at all the "can't find my content" posts still turning up here in recent weeks. It's been my opinion all along that Connect is a solution for a problem that isn't; in fact, it's created more problems that weren't there before. Login glitches, complaints of "it wants to install twice", all the content incompatible with Connect, long delays after purchase and glacially slow downloads, etc. I really hope we aren't stuck with it, because I can't see this situation being stable in the long term.
Same, I got tired of knowing that I had many addons for a clothing item, and never being able to find them. Simple standards like putting all addon products in a subfolder of said product would help a whole lot. I even go as far as keeping a seperate library for each figure to make it even easier. When I am working on a female, I know everything I need is in the G3F library for example. I don't even bother keeping permanent installations of scenes and props, I unzip what I need for what I am working on in a temporary library, and delete it all out when done.
I believe this is pretty much how it is now with Genesis products (I'm including all three generations here); clothing specific to a particular version is under People/Gensesis version/clothing/<item name> or People/genesis version/<vendor>/<item name>. Older versions, and stuff for Poser probably won't get changed to conform to this system, though.
You know the best 3d data base is a data base that does not rely on the changing inner working of a program but works outside of it. If you don't want to spend money: I would suggest LiberOffice has an access like program where you can make your own data base and include a picture what model it is for special instructions from vendor and what add ons you have for this item. Most Important where in your runtime everyting associated with this item is. If you are willing to spend money there are some great 3D content catalogs out there that are designed to work with daz and I would recommend using the trials so see which one works for you. Smart content is ok, but (the big butt rears it's nasty head) like other have stated everytime your database gets corrupted or the system gets some kind of upgrade things go south of fubar. My 2 cents
Other than switching it to a different drive, I mostly let DIM install where it will. I put my 3rd party stuff into another directory.
Then I make extensive use of the Categories system in the content library. But I never trust anything to populate it properly. So, first thing when i install something from DAZ is to go to the Products listing in content library, track down the product there (typically by the item name) and manually assign categories to everything in the product. Figure materials I typically leave as-is. Wardrobe & Accesories are generally fine, though some things I move around a bit. Props are a big one for me though, as I subdivide it a lot more than most products do, starting by splitting apart furniture and furnishings.
Environments take a lot of work though. Complete sets belong there, individual walls do not. In fact, any segment covered by the complete set that can not stand by itself gets moved to props/architecture/building parts where it will probably never again see the light of day. I'll just hide the part in Scene if I don't want it.
Materials though! Argh! Most products will get as far as "wardrobe, prop, or accessory" and leave it there. No, materials need to be just as subdivided as the items they apply to. And then Iray comes along and has its own set of categories entirely separate. I much prefer materials/wardrobe/pants/iray to materials/iray/wardrobe. Again, if a material applies to an entire building, just give me one click for all of it - the colors for individual building parts gets dumped far away, though I do recognize those as a bit more needed than the props. Hair is one thing that I keep tied to its product though, as there's generally many colors tied to each hairpiece.
Third party content gets the same treatment, though it's harder to first track down all the pieces so I can get them into the categories system.
Last month has me playing catch-up a lot.
I finally surrendered to DIM and DAZ3D. I let DIM install to its default location on my main Macintosh drive. Almost immediately, I couldn't find the first thing I looked for (Michael 4's Trekker boots!). I fiddled with the Categories feature, and made my own Category (Ron!) I went through all my content and used the new category to organize stuff so I could find it. After the job was finished, I was too exhausted to "Make Art!"
However I ended up saving two external hard drives! I had used one for my DAZ Studio & Poser content, and another as a clone backup!
now pray a new daz version doesnt spoil all your hard work
like it did for some with 4.9
It messed up mine in an odd way. It kept all the work I had added, but also clicked all the defaults. So 3/4 of my stuff was now in generic categories as well as specific. It also added the "lost and found" category, which actually has sometimes been helpful for the very rare item that doesn't show up in Products. (And everything in Lost gets deleted once I double-check it elsewhere)
Frustrating thing for me: if I select two items, say a necklace and a shirt, in one category, say Lost. If I open categories and check that yes, they are also listed where I want them to be, I can't just uncheck them from Lost. Every item you currently have selected must go to at least one communal location.
Had to comment on this as it is a common misconception. This hasn't been true for many versions. Poser can read any files within the library folder wherever you choose to put it. If you want the MATpose or material files for your clothing items to be in the same folder as the clothing item, you can just put it there, Poser will still read it fine. If you want to put ALL your content in the 'character' folder, go right ahead. Whatever makes sense to you!
I just happened to run into this thread again. I tried surrendering to DIM for a few days. Then I ran DAZ Studio & couldn't find a few things. I went back to installing my own stuff from scratch. I have one "Runtime," named "Ron's World!" I can find everything now.
I don't get how people cannot understand DIM and yet be able to install manually. In DIM click the gear icon to open the preferences and change any of the defaults to your preferred settings, it is all pretty straight forward.
Now, I have only used Daz3d software (Studio, Brucy and Hexagon) so can't really refer to the way other software does things. Another issue is that I'm obviously quite biased because this is the only way I know to do stuff and it actually works out quite well for me.
But something I haven't seen mentioned above and which works quite well for me: (re)define your own categories. I mostly rely on the smart contents pane and for that end I spend hours on checking out material which either was too old (Heligator for example, awesome figure) or which I got from freebie websites and eventually I imported the whole lot into the Daz CMS. And that's where I also discovered that the category defines the place where your items appear.
So because I use Genesis a lot in my work I now have a category 'Genesis' under the 'Figures' section which makes it really easy for me to find the Genesis base figures: Figures => Genesis, and I'm done. After I realized that I started to re-categorize many other items (including bought stuff) to suit my own needs. I managed to come up with a nice outfit which consists of many different clothing items? Then I'll either save the whole thing as a character preset or the items will find their way in their own category under: wardrobe => outfits => xxxx (where xxxx is of course a name I have to come up with).
The down side to this approach is of course that you're making yourself dependend on the CMS, but on the other hand it really helps me to find whatever I'm looking for.
There are no options to get rid of "Vanity" folders, or overcome the terrible lack of coherent organization.
It helps that some of us have been here since before the first D|S beta came out. By the time it did, installing manually and rearranging content so I could actually find things was pretty much second nature, so I just never had a need for DIM. The stability (lack of) and flakiness of the first few versions didn't tempt me at all to change my decision. The change from executable to .zip installers made the whole process easier and faster for me.
I started manually installing my content in 2003 (perhaps even earlier than that.) I've saved all my original installers. I can find the stuff that is manually installed. Every time I decide to try DIM again, I can't find the stuff it installed.
That is one of the things you can do with categories - organise items as you wish without regard to disc structure.
DIM does log where it isntalls content - you can either right-click on the item in the installed tab or click the arrow button on the right-hand end of its row in the Installed tab and select Show installed files. You will see the install folder listed at the top (or install folders, in the case of things like shaders or plug-ins which also go to the application folder) and then a list of files with their relative locations within that folder.
With categories, you need to find the stuff after it's been installed. With manual installation, I install each item individually. I can easily find each item, and put it where I want.
I recently tried using the Red Rabbit character, which had been installed by DIM. I got confused because each part of the item was in different places. There is no apparent rhyme or reason to how the products and their elements are organized. I shouldn't need to hunt for anything. And I hate those darned PA "Vanity" folders.