Question on the future Figures
Princessdawn3d
Posts: 16
I've been trying to find any info but I can't. Is there any plans to make a Genesis 3? Like when the next gen figures come out. (victoria 7, aiko 7)
Or will they be released on Genesis 2? My reason for asking is I really like only having one actor for multi figures. Few months ago I started using Genesis. But I started noticing alot more people were releasing stuff for Genesis2. If there is a Genesis 3 I'll wait till it gets released to change again. If not then I'll get into Genesis 2.
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The release of the G2Female was a complete surprise. The only reason customers even knew in advance was due to a glitch in the store which released (for a short time) a character/texture set for V6. Up to that point, users were no even aware that DAZ was returning to the gender split.
At this point, no one knows when DAZ will move to the third generation of the Genesis line.
Don't forget the situation of "buying everything all over again" for a new Genesis 3 figure. I'd invested pretty heavily into the original Genesis stuff, I just plain couldn't afford to do it all again when Genesis 2 came out so soon after the last of the Genesis base figures. I only got V6 earlier this year and M6 this last weekend because of special offers from DAZ. If it weren't for that, I'd still just be using things that only worked with plain G2F/G2M, and working mostly with Genesis and earlier figures.
Unless DAZ is secretly working on something really different (google for "muscle simulation") I do not see real reason for something different from G2F/G2M.
I was using V4/M4 almost exclusively up until late this year. I finally bought G2F in the promotions at that time and have raided all the sales since then to stock up on clothes. I still don't use G2M.
I also bought the necessary plugins to convert V4 clothing to G2F (GenX2 and V4 shape, etc.) but the conversions are awful - dresses and pants with mesh distortions which get worse when posed - just can't be used. I was involved in a long thread about those problems and logged it with DAZ Support. No sign of any improvements on those issues yet so those plugins were a waste of money.
I like the realism of G2F/V6 but unless DAZ come up with reliable backwards compatibility, it will be a very long time before I upgrade to yet another DAZ figure.
Before we get Genesis 3, we must get the long-awaited Millennium Cow 3, don't we?
I think that right now there is no need for newer Genesis figure. G2s are doing great in my opinion and Daz should stick with creating content for them because....
.....is there a possibility of a big improvement with G3?
G2 is very well modeled, nicely rigged and with two base figures (male/female) allows for better male/female shapes than one figure sharing both genders I think.
There is not much they can improve when it comes to modeling I think. All the models are modeled very well.
When it comes to rigging and rig controls there is still quite a lot to be done. Especially on the face where only the eyes, tongue and jaw are rigged. Rest is morphs.
Not that thats a bad thing.
But what I´m really missing are the rig controls. Thats why I never tried to animate inside DS because Im just used to having the rig controls in Maya and then all the attributes for that body part available when I select the rig control.
For example, if I select the IK Foot, there should be heel lift, ball lift, toe lift, toe spin, heel spin, stretch.......and so on.
As for photo realistic renders I think that depends on the render engine, the shader, the textures and lighting so theres not much a new figure can do when it comes to this unless there is a big advancement in any of these things.
I think the textures the figures come with are very good.
As for the SSS skin shader, I don´t know much about it. It probably isnt as good as skin shaders you can get with renderers like mental ray, Vray or Renderman but thats not even expected here.
And the Renderer, well 3Delight can produce some nice renders of the figures. They might not be photo realistic but can still look pretty nice with the right lighting : )
I really like the promotional renders of the figures. Those are some great results with 3Delight!
I see the comments that there is not much more DAZ can do to figures to make a Gen3 version interesting.
BUT you also have to keep in mind that DAZ is also working hard to improve DAZ Studio as well, and give it more and more options to help us all make better art. They want to keep things as state of the art (as possible for a small company). So with new features in studio, they will need new figures to make use of the new tech.
There really is no big worry about past investment in clothes and such for previous generations, one thing DAZ has done very well with studio is to make it so that clothing and such transfer over decently from one generation to another. All my genesis clothes fit decently well on G2 figures.....even m4/v4 stuff generally fit too (not quite as good, but with alot less problems than I ever had in poser)
Rawn
I'm only just getting to grips with the differences in the existing figures and don't fancy adding another generation into the mix. Even if the figures were to remain the same though, other things will change over time (technologies etc) and so the figures too will have to change eventually. Right now, the only request I'd put in for when that day comes is for figures with eyebrow layers that are independent of the skins so that their colours can be changed as readily as the hair. Please :)
I'd love to know how you avoid the mesh distortions when converting clothing. I'm not going to start another round of posting images (or searching for the links to older posts) to show how the geometry is messed up (skirt fronts, crumples under the breast and sharp polygons sticking out of the buttocks) but I can assure you that I'm not the only one who has seen these issues.
The fit, after conversion, looks ok on a T-Pose G2F but the moment I start posing her it screws up. So no, my past investment in clothing is all but useless with G2F and V6. That being said, I have a lot more V4 clothing than Genesis One.
Hey there guys!
RawArt, yep I think another figure will come but I would guess that there needs to be some huge changes and new stuff in DS first in order for G3 to do well. That way they can market the new figure as the one and only that can do all the new stuff, whatever it may be : )
marble - I never needed to transform clothing from V4 to Genesis but if you are saying it doesnt work then what I would do is that I´d export the clothing as obj, adjust it in a modeling program to fit G2F, then import it to DS and rig it and save it as a completely new mesh for G2F.
But I understand not everyone can do that. And it can be difficult to make it look good sometimes and then you have to create a FBM for every character you want to use the clothing with. That can take some time but I imagine it can be done. I guess I´ll try it one day : )
Why you need new figures only to work with new tech? what would be new tech Oculus rift support?
think a generation3 would be very difficult or it need to be alot more as it is today.
if you see what's coming soon, quality of upcoming meshes (google IR Full-Body Scans in UDK)
if we can have such quality for G3, then yes please!
and a mesh is a mesh, once rigged it's the same rigged mesh and only can have improved with weightpaint, muscle handling...
'm first still waiting on a workable FK/IK setup in studio.
evolution of software is still running very slow here (daz is not big, i know),
'm still wondering when we see rigged mesh support for other packages like Modo, C4D, Lightwave, Blender,... (poser have it so)
remember the genesis platform that would shock 3d industry. (article in 3dworld a few years ago)
another problem i find here with most meshes.
may be it's only me, but it's the style of the figures...
some example the new minotaur (great mesh, no problem with that), but it's a very brave one! guess Vicky is not running away from it :c)
what 's there available for people that look more? more scary, horror, gore look a like figures
it's always the same brave syle we find here (i call it a more brave/childish look).
Where are the more bad guys, more horror/gore figures like the Zbrush meshes around the net.
every figure is so brave done here. a pitty :c(
I guess I will try that one day too. Right now I don't have a clue how but it would be an interesting project. :)
I guess I will try that one day too. Right now I don't have a clue how but it would be an interesting project. :)
I´d try it for you right away just to check out how it would look because I´m curious but I have no V4 clothing except for one pair of swimwear I think : D
Personally, I'm not interested in fantasy characters. I'd love to see more everyday items - clothing, props, normal-looking people (not Warrior Queens, Baywatch Babes or Muscle Men). Clothes that open like real clothes or drape like real clothes (not Optitex - I struggle to get that to do anything but fall to the floor and it can't be scaled).
I'm encouraged by the few items I have from Dogz - he seems to be heading in the right direction.
I KNOW there will be new figures. Eventually, it is where the industry is heading, no chance or need to avoid it. But as Rawn said, I think they will stick with DS and expanding Gen2F/Gen2M for now.
There is an Artist/Vendor (search for Prototype) at Rendo who did some nice things with V4 and GND2 which shows what can be achieved with existing models. For the adult market, Erogenesis is working on a fully independent mesh which is complete (meaning anatomically correct). I believe that will be compatible with existing clothing rigs but I don't know if it will be Poser only (I'm not a Poser fan - I have Poser10 but dislike it).
I don't have, nor am I impressed with Dawn. I think that making full use of HD will prolong G2 models for some time to come - hopefully into the area of realistic body shapes - more like Bellatrix and Joanie.
I have to agree that Studio's feature set needs to be expanded before another generation of figures makes sense. Multiple soft body collisions and Dynamic cloth and hair systems that can be used to convert conforming clothes and hair in-studio would be far more useful in creating realistic images than yet another generation of figures.
100% agree. Multiple collisions (so that cloth can collide with underlying cloth as well as the figure) was one of the things I asked DAZ about when I logged the case. I'm sure many others have asked for the same.
Maybe I should have elaborated — I'm not against new generations of Genesis, I'm actually looking forward to seeing what DAZ come up with next. What I objected to was having Genesis 2 come out so soon after the release of the last of the original Genesis base figures. IIRC I wasn't the only one to think "here we go, all over again... already?".
100% agree. Multiple collisions (so that cloth can collide with underlying cloth as well as the figure) was one of the things I asked DAZ about when I logged the case. I'm sure many others have asked for the same.
YES! This is like the number 1 thing I want to see in DS right now!
I think I'd like to see further use of Geografting to enhance figures rather than trying to make a single mesh do it all - like breasts for example.
I'd love to know how you avoid the mesh distortions when converting clothing. I'm not going to start another round of posting images (or searching for the links to older posts) to show how the geometry is messed up (skirt fronts, crumples under the breast and sharp polygons sticking out of the buttocks) but I can assure you that I'm not the only one who has seen these issues.
The fit, after conversion, looks ok on a T-Pose G2F but the moment I start posing her it screws up. So no, my past investment in clothing is all but useless with G2F and V6. That being said, I have a lot more V4 clothing than Genesis One.
Half my store exists to facilitate conversions between figure generations, especially the clothing smoothers and tunic templates. ;) But using Transfer Utility with Merge Hierarchies on instead of autofit and adding a smoothing/collision modifier helps a lot all on its own.
Well the biggest motivation for a G3 would be to make it more Poser Compatible. I know many people are happy with the Daz Version with the DSON Importer, however I am not, and seeing as how V4 and M4 are still so popular even after V/M 5-6 have been out for so long, it's clear I am not the only one, nor can I say I'm a huge fan of DAZ Studio, and again seeing as how it's been offered for free, many times it's clear I am not alone on this either.
If anything, more features for DS would more than likely create an even larger rift between DS tech and poser tech making newer figures less compatible.
I am in no hurry for any G3 figures
The thing is, Poser itself is drifting more out of being compatible with it's own base. V4/M4 have remained popular with the Poser base because Poser's own included figures have attracted little interest from the second party content providers since the days of the "twos" (James 2, Jesse 2, Miki 2, Terai Yuki 2) while Poser materials support makes buying anything a pot-shoot unless you have Poser 9 or newer. The DAZ Gen 4 figures, on the other hand, work with everything back to the days of Poser 4, and any attempt to make something newer that's more natively compatible with Poser means that you have to draw a line and say "we'll support Poser features up to this point and no further" based on what the "real" average Poser user is actually using. That's not a model for improving a technology, that's a model for maintaining a status quo. Whereas by opting to give away Studio, DAZ knows that 100% of the potential market will always have access to the latest DAZ figure set.
So, rather than asking for a figure that works better in Poser, I'd prefer for the focus to be more on making DS able to do more of the handful of things that Poser does that Studio either can't do or doesn't do as well.
I was away from modeling for ~10 years, and in coming back... Poser's business model baffles me.
Whatever you may think about relative qualities of rendering, Daz seems WAY smarter about how to work with their market, and so they have my loyalty.
(I've occasionally thought of getting Poser simply for a bundle of free content, when Poser is on sale)
Attempts at interim solutions in Generations 1 and 2 of their weight-mapped figures with the DSON Compatibility Files have not gone over well, and the chance that we'll all go back to .cr2s or a split base is none. Smith Micro is not interested in adding .duf compatibility to their programs and never has been, not since everything was in .dsa and not now. Meanwhile, the base of DS-only users continues to grow, and now we've got Iray as an on-board engine it will only get bigger. If anything, I would expect to see more compatibility with the big suites like Max and Maya, not with Poser.
That's Poser's business models (plural.) Which is part of the problem. Every company that's owned Poser has approached how they handled the program differently, with the lat three being crazily different. IMHO Curious Labs was by far the most innovative and were responsible for most of the "biggies" that still define Poser today - the introduction of dynamic hair and cloth, as well as collisions, export support for other 3D programs, and the Firefly rendering engine. E-Frontier treated it as more of a companion program for their own stuff (and where that's actually evolved in Japan is pretty amazing) while Smith Micro seems to regard it as a program that's pretty much reached maturity and needs only marginal upgrades every year or so to justify the release of a set of very profitable upgrade sales.
Blender, too... ;-P
And like the others have hinted...there is no going back. If there is to be better compatibility the ball is in Poser's court.
Blender, too... ;-P
And like the others have hinted...there is no going back. If there is to be better compatibility the ball is in Poser's court.
Ha. I love Blender dearly, and I use it on every product, but it needs to get a lot more user-non-hostile before it can compete even a little as a major suite. Entry barrier is just too high.
And speaking of that, and other sites...
There is a web site called SimilarWeb.com. It has a free and a paid version, but the free version still allows you to compare traffic of two different sites at one time. Looking at the traffic of Poser-only or Poser-dominated sites versus fully dual* or DS-dominated sites is highly educational as regards where the market is right now.
*Renderosity is rapidly approaching a parity of Poser vs. DS releases right now, if they're not already there.