ASUS vs Gigabyte 5950X/RTX3080TI systems - which is better?
murverine2283621
Posts: 7
Hi, eveyone,
I'm a Mac user who has invested a lot professionally in DAZ, and I'm switching to a PC since this Apple - NVIDA spat doesn't look like it will end anytime soon and GPU rendering is a must for me, as I often have to produce a lot of images quickly. I live in Taiwan, where the local companies make unique DIY packages (no import duty!). I've done hours of research and have boiled my choice down to these two builds. (I know I should mix and match parts, but I can order one of these instantly and I'll probably need tech support.) I am probably most concerned about the motherboard difference, which I don't really understand. Any other advice would be appreciated, as well. Thanks!
System 1: ASUS "Breaking Pioneer" about $4,315 USD
Processor: AMD Ryzen9 5950X sixteen-core processor-ASUS TUF GAMING LC240 ARGB all-in-one water-cooled
motherboard: ASUS TUF GAMING X570-PLUS motherboard Edit: + (Wi-Fi)
-only supports Win10 system [This product does not contain operating software]
Graphics card: ASUS ROG- STRIX-RTX3080TI-O12G-GAMING graphics card
memory: Kingston 32GB DDR4-3200 memory (16G x2)
Hard disk: 2TB large capacity hard drive
Solid state drive: Kingston 1TB M.2 PCIe SSD
burner: no built-in
power supply : ASUS ROG Strix 850W Gold Power Supply
Case: ASUS TUF Gaming GT501 White Gaming Case
Size: 545 x 251 x 552 mm
Operating System: None (It is recommended to install WIN10 64bit operating system)
Warranty: One year hardware warranty service (Keyboard, mouse and chassis fan are consumables that are not covered by this warranty)
Detailed specifications:
-Front panel
. 2 x USB 3.1 Gen1, headphone jack, microphone jack
-rear panel
. 4 x USB 3.2 Gen 1
．3 x USB 3.2 Gen 2
．1 PS/2 keyboard/mouse port
. 1 HDMI
．1 DisplayPort
．1 x LAN (RJ45) port & ASUS Wi-Fi module
. 5 x audio jacks
. 1 x Optical S/PDIF output
. Audio: Realtek ALCS1200A 8-channel high-definition audio CODEC
．Network: Realtek L8200A & Intel Wireless-AC 9260
********************
System 2: Gigabyte "Extreme Flame Dragon King" about $4,100 USD
Processor: AMD Ryzen9 5950X sixteen-core processor-equipped with ID-COOLING ZOOMFLOW 240X RGB all-in-one water-cooled
motherboard: Gigabyte X570 AORUS ELITE WIFI motherboard
-only supports Win10 system [This product does not contain operating software]
Graphics card: Gigabyte N308TGAMING OC-12GD graphics card
memory: Kingston 32GB DDR4-3200 memory (16G x2)
Hard drive: 2TB large capacity hard drive
Solid state drive: Kingston 1TB M.2 PCIe SSD
burner: no built-in
power supply: Gigabyte P850GM 80Plus Gold Medal [Full Modular Design]
Case: Thermaltake S300 TG Mid-Tower Case [White]
Dimensions: 493 x 230 x 508 mm
Operating System: None (It is recommended to install WIN10 64bit operating system)
Warranty: One year hardware warranty Service (keyboard, mouse and chassis fan are consumables not covered by this warranty)
Detailed specifications:
-Front panel
. 1 USB 3.0, 2 USB 2.0, HD Audio
-rear panel
. 2 USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type-A ports (red)
．4 USB 3.2 Gen 1 ports & 4 USB 2.0/1.1 ports
. 1 HDMI socket
. 1 RJ-45 port
. 5 audio source connectors
. 2 SMA antenna ports (1T1R) & 1 S/PDIF fiber output socket
. Sound effect: Built-in Realtek ALC1220 chip
. Network: Built-in Intel GbE network chip (10/100/1000 Mbit)
************************
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Comments
Hmmm....
Is a 3090 off the table? I don't think they are that much more pricewise than the 3080ti, and you will have the all important 24gb of GPU memory. If you can fit that into your budget, I certainly would try.
I have the ASUS TUF GAMING X570-PLUS (wifi) board, and it has served me well for the last year or so. I chose it ultimately because of the storage options. 8 SATA 3 Headers and 3 M2 Slots (one is PCIE4.0)
Y
My Operating System is running off of a 1TB NvMe Gen 4 Sabrent M2. My Daz Library is on a 2TB Gen3 M2 and I got about 200gb free :(
First off, congrats on the shift, as you will actually be able to upgrade/repair your PC without being stuck with apple's proprietary parts!
But about the motherboards, unless you're going to do some serious overclocking exclusively for gaming, I would go for another Asus model, assuming they actually carry them, otherwise, I would go with the Gigabyte.
But just to make sure, you might want to check out this video for more info before you buy, sure they are talking from a gamer's perspective, but it's still one of the most trustworthy sources on youtube!
I would have to agree, as the 3090 is only a couple three hundred more and you get 24 Gb of VRAM, so not only is that great for rendering in iray, but you can also fit in some gaming, and/or encode video at the same time unless of course, you're only going to be sticking with 32Gb RAM, I'd go for 64Gb myself!
Second Chumly's comment, a 3090 MSRP is only $300 over a 3080 Ti and has twice the VRAM. You're adding less than 10% of the system cost.
No strong feelings on either brand, both would likely suit you well. Did notice the Gigabyte system has WiFi while the Asus does not. Last number of builds have been on Asus boards which have worked well for me. Not saying Gigabyte is bad, just don't have the personal experience with them. At least lately. I think I had a Gigabyte mobo many years ago...
Spending over $4000 on a PC should get you an nVidia GEForce RTX 3090 24GB, if it's not, you are being ripped off. And that's that. If you're not getting a 3090 then spend about half as much and save the rest of your cash for your swear jar.
OOPS, thanks for the correction!
My personal opinion is that if you do not intend to use the additional gadgets on the board, better get one without them. It will keep the system more simple and prevents unnecessary problems/conflicts.
Somewhat p***ed as the the Asus WS S299 Sage without the 10G lan had been removed from the store just a few days before I made the purchase and I had to settle for the one with it...
Wow, thanks for all the great responses already! (First time poster)
Ah, the VRAM! How foolish of me. I looked at some benchmarks between the 3080ti/3090 and it didn't look worth the difference, but I guess that was for one task at a time...
I'm a bit hamstrung by going with only one company here, I think. I'm going to go back to the drawing board and see about building it myself with parts ordered separately. (Terrifying for a Mac guy but WTH I'll jump in with both feet and figure it all out.)
Thanks so much everyone and keep the advice coming if you can spare a moment. I'm a bit at sea...
The main concern is how many scene assets you can load.
As someone with a 3060, I can say that 12 GB of VRAM is good, but 24GB is going to be a lot better...
... and in that respect, as Iray also keeps the textures uncompressed in system RAM when rendering, it's advisable to have at least twice your VRAM in system RAM, and ideally quite a bit more. I was advised to upgrade my plans for 32GB of RAM to 64 GB of RAM even with a 12GB card, and it wasn't stupid advice; I've seen DS eat more than 40 GB of system RAM when rendering, and I wasn't even pushing the 3060 to its limits at the time.
I'd say that at least 64GB of system RAM is a must for a 3090, if not more.
Nothing wrong at all with all the components from one company, in fact some benefit with it when it comes to RGB lighting. One piece of software won't significantly effect performance, but IIRC it was Linus Tech Tips or Gamers Nexus that tested and found having many can degrade performance significantly.
ETA: And what Matt_Castle said, more VRAM will allow you to have more assets loaded in a scene. I have run out with 12 without trying too hard (scene, few clothed figures, HDRI)
While the Ryzen 5950x is a top dog, and certainly will get you bragging rights... you could go for the 5800 or the 5900 and still get great performance, better value, and free up some bones for the 3090 and/or a speedy Nvme drive.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-cpus,3986.html
https://www.anandtech.com/show/16214/amd-zen-3-ryzen-deep-dive-review-5950x-5900x-5800x-and-5700x-tested
Yeah, in that respect, Daz Studio is actually very often just single threaded, so more cores is often of no merit whatsoever. (And the GPUs are so much more powerful than the CPUs when it comes to Iray rendering that I'd honestly recommend having your CPU off as a render device; it can actually often slow down the render because Iray assumes there's a problem if one of the render devices is massively slower and has the other device check its work).
...for optimal use of the card's full VRAM potential; 2X the card's VRAM is pretty much the base, and 3X is most desirable for system memory to support rendering. So for a 2090, you are looking at 48 and 72 GB respectively. Of course with the current configuration of memory and DIMM slots, that would translate to either 64 or 128 GB (the latter the maximum the Ryzen9 5950X and wither MB will support). For 64GB (4 x 16) of the same memory brand and speed specified, it would cost around 500$. Going with 2 x 32 (which would leave you two DIMM slots for later expansion to 128) it would cost about 380$. As both the Ryzen CPU and motherboard's support 2 memory channels not 4, you would be fine with 2 x 32 GB set-up.
For the full 128 GB (4 x 32 GB) of the same memory it would be between 870$ to $900$.
[current prices at Newegg were used for reference, you may be able to find a better deal at another vendor.]
I am waiting for a AMD Zen 3 Ryzen 9 16 xore/32 thread APU what has at least a desktop entrylevel Big Navi/Big Flounder GPU integrated! Oh, I've said already? Probably will say it again. My B450 motherboard BIOS is upgraded and ready! I'll probably wind up getting a 5950X though ultimately, because no such APU is forthcoming.
Where can I go for more info on this?
Every one of these posts is excellent info. You people rock!
I must clearly plunge into more research before I drop this much coin.
I'm guessing there's no site that has DAZ-specific benchmarks, is there? This AMD/Nvidia stuff is all so new...
Remember that while the advice regarding the msrp difference between 3080ti and 3090 isnt wrong, almost nothing is being sold at msrp these days due to the global semiconductor crisis. So there is no garuantee that changing your gpu from a 3080ti to a 3090 will result in the same price difference as the msrp, and thats assuming you can even get one in the first place.
regarding benchmarks, if you want performance benchmarks on the general operation of daz studio itself (and not rendering benchmarks), i highly doubt you will find any specific benchmarks for that. There is an iray benchmark thread, but im not sure if that includes results for 3080ti yet. Doesnt matter if it doesnt, the comparitive results between a 3080ti and 3090 will be the same as any other GPU renderer. which is that the 3080ti and 3090 are almost identical in terms of render speed (they are within 1-2%). Its just that for iray, the 3090 will allow you to render bigger/heavier scenes before it runs out of vram and drops to cpu mode.
The 3090's and most of the graphics cards in general are still way overpriced. Hell, even the RTX A5000/A6000 are overpriced now when you compare it with their initial launch prices.
If you're doing this professionally, you should already have a good idea of how much VRAM you're going to need. If you're going to be using close to 24Gb VRAM, you might want to think about going with the full 128Gb system RAM, and if you have any desire to upgrade to a better/bigger or additional card later on, you should consider a threadripper system, given how much money you're already planning to spend. For example, the TRX40 boards for threadrippers have 8 dimm slots and can support up to a maximum of 256Gb system RAM. That should be enough for most iray render enthusiasts, because the next step after that is practically a render farm, which is way above the budget for pretty much all of us here.
Only you know what you're going to be rendering, so determine how much VRAM you expect to use. Anything over 24 Gb VRAM may require more than 128Gb RAM.
I understand the point... but, if you hit the Render button and then leave your machine to go get a drink... go to the bathroom, and your computer does nothing else but render, then single thread performance might be better.
But if you hit render, then watch youtube videos, hop in a google meets with your bestie, or play a game - while rendering... Would the multi-thread CPU be the winner?
g
Seconded on maxing out the ram to support a 3090.
I general, not a good idea, if you don't want your render to fail.
If your goal is to render on the GPU, then that all depends on if you have room on the GPU to watch YouTube or attend a conference call. The CPU won't be the one doing the rendering.
I currently have a 8-core Ryzen 7 1800x and when I render on the GPU the CPU sits at idle. If I'm not rendering something crazy, I can browse the web or watch Neflix or whatever...pretty much anything that isn't GPU-intensive. If the render drops to the CPU, I can't do anything at all other than walk away because the CPU is pegged at 100% use for the duration.
I have a 3090 with 64 GB of RAM, for Daz Studio with that card 64 GB is plenty. Big Daz scenes along with Photoshop, browser with lots of tabs watching YouTube no problem.
Previous system was Threadripper, which didn't run Daz any faster as stated by some others Daz only really uses a single core.
The system I'm building out around a 3090, including the cost of the 3090, is already going to be nearing $6,000US...and that's not even getting into Threadripper territory (I'm going with a Ryzen 9 5900x). That should already be plenty for most Iray enthusiasts. Getting into Threadripper territory would put me up near $8,000 or more (figuring a more expensive board and more RAM)...and that would definitely be out of the realm of consumer and into professional...If I'm not already.
Not to mention, if you're rendering in Daz and you have a 3090 and your goal is to use that 3090 for rendering, why would you even need the numerous cores of a Threadripper? Because Daz isn't going to use it. Unless you're doing other stuff that would run a CPU ragged.
Maybe something new - new Intels CPU @ 5GHz:
...when I run MSI afterburner, it still indicates activity on the CPU. When rendering I have no other programmes processes running, go completely offline, and put my AV in sleep mode until the work session is over.
Also if you use other programmes that do benefit from multiple threads and/or are also into gaming, a good cpu is still important.
Hopefully Daz 5 Daz will move to full multithreading as that would assist in other operations of the programme.
By default I would choose Asus because I had several Gigabyte graphic cards which were damaged 2 years later.
From simply a gaming standpoint, I can't imagine anyone recommending a Threadripper. For gaming, still, more cores does not necessarily equal better. In most cases, they're still seeing that games utilize less cores, so sometimes a CPU with less cores can outperform one with more cores (when gaming). I was watching JayzTwoCents yesterday and he said that 6- or 8-cores is still the sweet spot for gaming. That is, of course, if you're building a gaming-only rig.
Either way, for what I do...which is gaming and non-professional GPU-based rendering, I don't see the purpose in adding an extra $1,200 to my build just to say I have a Threadripper. It feels excessive, and a 16- or 24-core Threadripper would be completely wasted on me (if not an actual hindrance when it comes to gaming...ok hindrance is a strong word, but you get what I mean.). I probably don't even need the 5900X for what I do, and as it is, I'm being told I need to look at higher quality motherboards than what I'd originally planned, so instead of a ~$300 motherboard, I'm going to end up in the ~$700 motherboard territory, which is going to make my 5900X build even more expensive than I originally thought. (The reason I'm being told I should go with a higher tier motherboard is because of the VRM quality and with so many 3090's failing, the general thought is that lower tier motherboards and power supplies could be related instigators.)
And when I render on the GPU, my CPU use has always sat at say, 10%...which is the same usage level I get from browsing the interwebs.
Yeah, except for programs that render with the CPU or niche/extreme use cases I don't see anyone recommending a Threadripper for the home user. Not with the latest gen Ryzen. I upgraded from a Threadripper 1950x to a Ryzen 5950x. Both have 16 cores but the 5950x is much faster. In just three years what was a server or professional level chip is in their base chip line.
The first gen Threadripper was actually slower with gaming, due to that gen Infinity fabric and access to memory. You could enable gaming mode, which disabled half your cores (one chip) to speed up gaming to be equivalent to the regular Ryzen line.
TLDR: A Ryzen 5950x is more than enough for Studio and gaming, a Threadripper will be money spent without realizing any benefit.
Every video card AIB have cards that have issues every now and then. I just took my asus 2060 out of my machine, due to it having issues with the fan. Makes a horrible noise. If i got in there to wiggle it a bit with my hand, the noise would go away for a while and then come back. Got to the point where i would have to do it every day, and when the noise came back it was getting worse and worse.
Meanwhile i have a gigabyte Titan X in another machine, ~4 years older than the 2060, which still works flawlessly, and a gigabyte 2080ti in this machine that i bought at the same time as the 2060, which also still works fine.
So you see im the opposite to you, having had more issues with asus cards than gigabyte
in all honesty, i have used more gpus over the years than most people, as you might have gathered from what i already said. Only 1 of them has been an asus gpu, and thats the only one i had any major issues with
...again it does depend on what else you do. Some software does take full advantage of higher core counts. Some here also work with software like Carrara which actually has a very decent render engine or in 3DL with Wowie's AweShader system boith of which benefit form as many cores as you can throw at them (I've seen near "realistic" quality form 3DL with the AweShader system).
Again not into games here, just read a few several articles on the topic. The last ones I played were Doom, Duke Nukem, and Civ III. back in the 486/Pentium days (yeah that dates me).
The differences between Ryzen and Threadripper are more memory channels, PCIe lanes and maximum memory supported. All Ryzen CPUs support only two memory channels (AM4 boards usually have 2 or 4 DIMM slots and cap at 64 GB).. Threadrippers support four memory channels (sTR4 and sTR 40 motherboards have or 8 DIMM slots and cap at 128 GB). When performing straight CPU/memory operations, more channels is more efficient. Also for supporting a big VRAM card like a 3090 128 GB is preferable.
The 3955 WX Pro workstation CPU, which would be the closest comparison generation wise (while having the same core/thread count), to the Ryzen 5950 supports 8 memory channels and has a faster base clock rate, and 128 PCIe lanes vs 20. True it is about 300$ more than the 5950x.
@ Joseft. Yeah myTitan-X is doing just fine and very quiet even during a big render job. My only concern is when Nvidia will drop Iray support for it as they already have put smaller Maxwell cards on "depreciated" status. Thank you for the info on the noisy operation of the 3060. Maybe it's just an isolated situation with a bad fan, though I was amazed at them offering a 12 GB card for about a third of what the Titan-X retailed for when it was new.