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Assume the worst if nothing is declared to the contrary - that should be the general buyer's mantra these days (not specifically talking about this shop, either). I'd suggest if people want more info in the product descriptions, they need to start bombarding sales support with more pre-sales questions. Eventually the seller will wise up - or remain very busy answering those queries :)
Regarding products for sale here, I'd be happy if certain items weren't 'welded' together - cushions on couchs for example. It's usually easy enough to sort out but just adds another level or work before a product becomes usable and conciously or not, we remember those PAs whose products create more work and avoid them in future.
I've been following this discussion and I keep coming back to the same question:
The friend who got me started with 3d art & Daz Studio, taught me that Props are unrigged models and Figures are rigged models. Has this changed?
Because of this I never expect anything called a prop to be anything but static, unless the description explicitly mentions morphs or rigging. I do assume (maybe a bad idea?) that many props (tools, weapons, wine glasses, etc.) come with a parented version or hand pose. I prefer smart propped, since it can be hard to move the prop to the posed hand. (Once it's there I save it that way. @Sickleyield - I think I learned how from one of your old tutorials; you're the best at explaining things!)
In Poser the Figures library is rigged items (CR2) and the Props lbrary iss tatic items (PP2), at least by default and as a save location. However, prop is also used to mean an object as distinct from an animsl or person, and in that sense says nothing about rigging. It's just differnt but overlapping terminology.
True, but you can also cheat rigging by leaving your item as multiple pieces and parenting the parts that are supposed to move. Instead of rigging a door for example, you could have the frame and the door as two different props, set the joint's pivot point at the corner, so when you spin it, it rotates where the hinges should be. I'll do this a lot with stuff I make for myself, and I swear I've encountered props among Daz products that were set up like this instead of being rigged.
The old way of doing things was we used Poser scale cause that is what everyone used and everything was perfectly scaled. At some point in the last several years our scaling went from fine to HUGE when you load our props or scenes.It is quite annoying.
There are also morphing props for Daz. Technically speaking they don't come with rigs, but they can "move". Or rather... They can fake movement with morphing geometry.
One of the upsides of morph vs. bones is that you can be a LOT more individually precise. I'm trying to refurbish an old figure and at first I'm like 'ugh, the mouth opening and other stuff is all morphs, this sucks!'
But then I realized that it would take a few extra bones and LOADS of JCMs to capture the same effect, and people are extremely unlikely to care (in this instance).
So at one point I thought morphs for things like mouth opening and whatnot were old and dumb vs. brilliant new tech we have now, but now I've grown to appreciate that every tool has a situation and place.
your stuff works fine
the auditorium with seats no normal shaped human can sit in by another PA or the cars nobody can drive no matter how you scale them are the problems
Correct. We do this on stuff that can be "removed" like a lid or something along those lines where the piece is saved as its own prop. If it's something that "Open" or "Close" or "turn" it is always rigged or done with morphs. Hell we even rig wheels just for animators. We don't have to but we'd thought it would be nice to add that in for them. You hardly need it for a 2D render but to an animator it is important. As a company we have an open book policy which most that have dealt with us know. If there is something that should've been done differently let us know respectfully and we will explain the reason it was done the way it was or in most cases depending on how old the pack is we will fix it if broken. We always take those suggestions serious as well as your feedback. Being attacked and bashed because something isn't to your liking is pure wrong and no one should be treated that way. I don't' care who you are. Open a dialog, more can get done like that. If you're doing the bashing, people are just going to get ticked and not show you any respect cause your not showing them any and all its going to do is your not going to get listened to. We treat our customers with the upmost respect and those who have dealt with us know that. There is enough hostility in this day and age amongst each other, can't we just treat people with respect anymore?
https://www.daz3d.com/the-j-suit
And its an old V4 item
Those zipper positions appear to be discrete morphs. I don't think it is rigged for continuous smooth motion from closed to open.
They're great for making things simple. If I'm modeling a ship with multiple hatches on the hull and they're all supposed to open simultaneously then I'm not going to be placing a bone for each hatch. Even making each part separate and changing the origin point would be too messy - now a ship hull ends with dozens of identical clutter attached. It'd be one mess of the scene.
Morphs would only make sense if the movement is linear. As an example, a door opening is not linear - a morph would work only in the open and closed positions, but an intermediate position would be distorted (I suppose you could create morphs for 10 degree increments, but then may as well rig the damned thing). A drawer opening could be achieved with a morph, as could some resizing of elements, as well as via rigging.
Thanks to all who chimed in on my Props vs. Figures comment. I learned a thing or two. Admittedly, the friend/teacher was probably simplifying things greatly because of my learning curve when I started. It has gotten better since.
I found that one out the hard way, when I made some morphs to open some hinged boxes lol. I thought I was seeing things at first, that the box lid only looked like it was changing size in the betweens. Then I used a primitive to measure it, and sure enough, it was scaling.
A morph sends the vertices in a straight line from the base shape to the final shape, so in any curved actioan it will just follow a chord across the curve (and so will shrink and then expand).
If I'm not mistaken there are... words/terms/concepts like DESCRIPTION and CATEGORY, LABELLING, TIMELINE, RULES (FORMAT) and possibly DEGREE OF FLEXIBILITY and RATINGS that are key here. Like the OP suggested in his SUBJECT label, some advance -- preferably flexible and sortable using Boolean logic -- information is desired.
I would say that if an aeroplane has a propeller that doesn't turn, that is likely to be a problem at some point. Even more so if it is an "old" aeroplane. And I've gone on long and loud about the issue where you have to make overly careful distinctions in Store Search when you're looking for "plane/airplane/aeroplane/jet" or "pool/swimming/billiards" or you risk being "snookered".
Of course Google Corp. has (or had) a thing called "Surprise Me!"... nothing wrong with that I suppose.
Some sort of... possibly visual timeline would say a lot about product x-y-z in my opinion, and if something doesn't include hand poses or poses for figures other than M3/V3 then so be it, but at least users would have a bigger picture of where a thing stands.
Ha, I am willing to bet that the keyword "anthropomorphic" does not exist in the store! And so wonderful models like the Noggins Rat, the AM's Mouse and the Storybook Mouse are missing out on a lot of potential hits.
Another really weird one is this business where you have to wait literally years for something and then two minutes later it's being discounted into a "clearance" section. HUH???!
I generally like the "Sickleyield" items, so much so that I will usually at least LOOK at them even if I can't wrap my head around things like the "liminal" water props or whatever that is. And (digital) hats off to "frank0314" for taking the time to provide users with some deep background.
I keep reading comments that say "if a product does not list this in the description, then you cannot assume it has it".
This would be normally logical, but this is the Daz store we are talking about...and that line of logic is just not practical. There are too many products in this store with simplistic descriptions that leave out a lot of very important details. Even worse, it seems like the "read me" section has been forgotten by Daz themselves. There are many products that have rigged props but never say anything about it.
So how is a customer supposed to know???
Are we supposed to purchase a product, assume the worst, and then be pleasantly surprised?
Really?
I know Daz has a return policy. That is nice, but that is not a proper solution. Most people want to know the details about the products. If a product has the rigging...TELL US IN THE DESCRIPTION. If the product does not have rigged doors, then maybe the product should tell us that as well. It is only fair. I think people would appreciate the honesty up front. If I am not mistaken, isn't there a whole thread dedicated to listing products that have working/nonworking bathrooms? There clearly seems to be a number of people looking for this.
The other thing I find somewhat amusing is that PAs posting in this thread are PAs I would generally trust to make good products in the first place, and are probably not the intended targets of the questions posted by the thread.
But like I said earlier, whether there are time constraints or not on a product's creation, customers are not often concerned about how long it took to create. And why would they be? Most customers are looking for what they need. Whether it is free, or paid, or whether it took the PA a day or a year is all basically irrelevant to the customer. And sometimes things take a long time for different reasons. A movie or video game that goes through years of production delays often turns out pretty poor in the end.
And one more thing, isn't it time for Daz to stop being niche? This is a rapidly growing industry. The demand for quality 3D assets has become so great that Epic bought Quixel for quite a pretty penny just recently. Meanwhile, Daz models were prominently used in...um...House Party. While a lot of studios do try to make their own assets, the fact remains that many small studios lack the people to build every single item for a production. Outsourcing is very common, and sourcing an asset from a place like Daz is simply another form of outsourcing.
I noticed early on that Turbosquid clearly labels some items as being "rigged".
And they require promo shots with the item "out-of-the-box" without any dressing up or special lighting or postwork. They show wireframes so you can judge the vendors' modelling skills. The vendors are supposed to disclose if there is any sort of smoothing going on in the promo shots. They're supposed to show the products from different angles to prevent hiding flaws.
Barbult is right.
I think there may be some difference between what some of you interpret as "rigged" and what "rigged" actually is.
Rigged means an item has bones that control its movement. There are tricks that can be done with morphs and multiple hidden zipper pulls that simulate a zipper opening and closing, but what is often really happening there is that the zipper teeth are being parted by a morph while multiple zipper pulls are moving in and out of the body to new positions on the article of clothing. That way one item can have zipped, half undone, and unzipped looks, but I doubt that you would be able animate one continuious zipping and unzipping motion with those items.
The reason for this is that the zipper pull is going to be rigged in its location on one part of the body. So while it might be able to travel (via morph) up an down the upper chest, if it strays from that part of the body its motion will still be controlled by that original body part. So if that zipper tab is down at the belly button, and the upper chest moves, the zipper will still move with the upper chest, flying off into space somewhere. This is what all the hiding of multiple tabs is about, the hidden but revealable tabs at the different zipper positions are rigged to those parts of the body.
I just did a thing where I un-parented a door, and then selected it with the Rotate tool to move it however which way I wanted. Results may vary with some models.
Heh heh... this here is an extreme example but if you want to jump out of the passenger door a Cessna say, in mid-flight, it's important to order the "B" type of door and have it factory installed... eg. the "B" door swings UP and hooks to the wing, not sideways like the regular door.
Here's a picture of a "B" type of door on a Cessna (just a random link). Haha been there, done that. (-:
So what I'm saying is you can sometimes detach or otherwise isolate individual parts of a model, as a workaround for some particular thing that you want to do.
Another reason for wanting to isolate and stretch and dent, or move parts around would be if you were modelling a junk yard or a garage. I love the things in the DAZ Store that have things spread out separately rather than super-glued together.
Thank you for saying this. I often feel I'm the only person in the forums (or even in the whole DS/Poser scene) who cares about proper topology.