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Pudgy the Corgi crashed my DS ...

3D Vitality3D Vitality Posts: 115
in The Commons

Hi ,

I need advice: I‘ve bought Pudgy the Corgi from Hypertaf but unfortunately DS permanently crashed when I try to render him (only he's in the scene, DS is the only app running) - so it seems that 32 GB RAM are not enough (?)… Any advice where I can adjust the hair settings?

I found a option under Surfaces, where I can set hair density. The original setting is around 96000, I reduced to 45000 and still have a crash.

I‘ve been running in such issues with a lot of dforce hair, but my solution was to avoid this hair then and use a alternative one… but this won‘t work this time. Pudgy comes handy to make a birthday card for my granddaughter - so I‘m now really in trouble…

Thanks in advance for enlighten my brain with some advice!

Paul

System: Win7pro, 6GB Nvidia GTX 1060 video card, 32 GB RAM

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Comments

  • mikael-aronssonmikael-aronsson Posts: 569

    Have you checked the log if it is running out of memory or if there is some other reason for the crash ?

  • 3D Vitality3D Vitality Posts: 115

    mikael-aronsson said:

    Have you checked the log if it is running out of memory or if there is some other reason for the crash ?

    Yes. In 2 of 3 cases it runs out of memory ....  so I need to find the balance between "still a nice render" and "now is the polygon count low enough". At the the end I can't figure out what exactly is the reason for running out of memory...

  • 3D Vitality3D Vitality Posts: 115

    In the log file I found this:

    2021-08-18 16:44:58.071 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\pluginsource\DzIrayRender\dzneuraymgr.cpp(359): Iray [FATAL] - API:MEMORY :: Memory allocation failed.
    2021-08-18 16:44:58.583 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\pluginsource\DzIrayRender\dzneuraymgr.cpp(359): Iray [WARNING] - API:DATABASE ::   1.0   API    db   warn : Transaction is released without being committed or aborted. Automatically aborting.
    2021-08-18 16:45:03.289 Total Rendering Time: 1 minutes 54.52 seconds

    What's going on here? angry

  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 10,024

    Maybe you could attach the log to your post with "Attach a file" above the "Post Comment" button

  • mininessiemininessie Posts: 324
    edited August 2021

    i have the same problem ...i had 16 gb of ram..now i have 20 and it is not still enough, only with the figure and fur to render.

    if you uses the windows 10 task administrator you can see how the memory reaches the 100% and still is not enough! crying

     

    Post edited by mininessie on
  • mininessiemininessie Posts: 324
    edited August 2021

    ok ...i found this in the surfaces tab.

    Hair generation mode, if you change from "Target surfaces" to " Root radius" the fur renders.

    I think i will have to set more things because the hair is so tiny,but at least it works, and DS don´t crashes.

     

    Post edited by mininessie on
  • 3D Vitality3D Vitality Posts: 115

    mininessie said:

    ok ...i found this in the surfaces tab.

    Hair generation mode, if you change from "Target surfaces" to " Root radius" the fur renders.

    I think i will have to set more things because the hair is so tiny,but at least it works, and DS don´t crashes.

    Thanks for the advice, yes, it render then, but the result is ....ummm.... strange, at least for me. Like without fur. 

  • 3D Vitality3D Vitality Posts: 115

    PerttiA said:

    Maybe you could attach the log to your post with "Attach a file" above the "Post Comment" button

    here it is...

    txt
    txt
    DAZ_log.txt
    366K
  • 3D Vitality3D Vitality Posts: 115

    So I tried again with PS hair density down to 5000 ....  it still flooded the completely the RAM. Cant do any other render because "the render is still in work", so I have to restart DS = crash. It's so annoying.

  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 10,024

    First... As the dog is taxing on your system, do not log in to DS. The log shows DAZ Connect updating things in the background all the time.

    I just want to check, is your Windows 7 a Pro version (or better)?

    If the textures for teeth and such are really 4096x4096px, you could save some resources by taking them down to 2048x2048px (Irfanview is good and free)

    It looks like you have selected both the GPU and CPU for rendering devices, unselect the CPU (but leave fallback to CPU selected)

    Close any and all other programs to give DS all the possible resources that your computer has.

  • MelissaGTMelissaGT Posts: 2,611

    That's kind of crazy that we now have single figures that can blow 32GB of RAM out of the water. 

  • ritzeratzeritzeratze Posts: 17
    edited August 2021

    I think this setting was a bit high at 1500
    changing it to 750 significantly reduce memory usage
    and it fits into my 8GB vram

    corgi settings.JPG
    525 x 1106 - 82K
    Post edited by ritzeratze on
  • 3D Vitality3D Vitality Posts: 115

    ritzeratze said:

    I think this setting was a bit high with 1500
    changed it to 750 and it fits into my vram

    That helps. Now I can render this little rascal. Still sucks 25 GB of RAM, but it render.

    I'll try of course all other suggestions too!

  • j cadej cade Posts: 2,310
    edited August 2021

    In addition to density another setting to lower is "PR Interpolation Segment Length" I do not yet have the adorable corgi, so I don't know what value its set at by default, but the *smaller* the number the *more memory* the hair will require. especially for short straight stuff like fur you can set the value pretty high for much lower memory without effecting the look that much at all. if you check and the value is below .75, try setting it in the .75-1.0 range. Interpolation length is roughly how many points there are per strand so if the default setting is .25 and you raise it to 1.0 it will use up to a quarter of the memory (not quite because there is already some optimization but very good memory savings regardless)

     

    also if you want the brute-ist force method that will immediately cut you're memory requirements: in the parameters tab under line tesselation switch render line tessalation from 3 to 2. It switches each strand from 3 sided to 2 sided and consequently immediately cuts memory requirements by a third

     

     

    edit: also if you do cut the hair density increase the "line start width" (how thick each strand of hair is at the root) by the same proportion. ie if you halve the density, double the line start width. If there are half as many strands, but each of them is twice as thick the visual density ends up pretty similar

    Post edited by j cade on
  • j cadej cade Posts: 2,310

    and not pudgy, but a quick demonstration of the how much memory you can gain by changing PR Interpolation.

     

    also note how little it changes the overall look of the fur while using almost half the memory.

    comp.jpg
    1688 x 2121 - 419K
  • ritzeratzeritzeratze Posts: 17
    edited August 2021

    Original Settings for Pudgy:
    PR Interpolation Segment Length: 0.1
    Additional PR Hairs Density (cm^2): 1500

    Render below with settings:
    PR Interpolation Segment Length: 0.5
    Additional PR Hairs Density (cm^2): 400
     

    memory consumption reduced dramatically
    for VRAM and main memory
    thanks J Cade for the great tip!

    corgi 400 - 0.5.jpg
    2560 x 1440 - 589K
    Post edited by ritzeratze on
  • mininessiemininessie Posts: 324

    thanks...yes...really the change i pointed was not the solution sad i am going to try the new tips...thanks!

  • mininessiemininessie Posts: 324
    edited August 2021

    ok.. finally i found my setting...thank you all so much!

    I set fallback to CPU selected (i had only gpu selected)

    set  "PR Interpolation Segment Length" to maximun

    and lowered all the textures (i used : https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/137161/reduce-texture-sizes-easily-with-this-script/p1)

    I am rendering the image and will post here...the whole image is consuming only 8,1 GB of ram memory

     

     

    Gimme a hug.jpg
    800 x 800 - 522K
    Post edited by mininessie on
  • MelissaGTMelissaGT Posts: 2,611
    edited August 2021

    j cade said:

    also note how little it changes the overall look of the fur while using almost half the memory.

    That really depends on the lighting. In this piece, I had to up the line tesselation on the Direwolf's tail because it was virtually see-through. I think I ended up using 3 for the tail and 1 for the rest of the body. 

     

    Post edited by MelissaGT on
  • j cadej cade Posts: 2,310

    melissastjames said:

    j cade said:

    also note how little it changes the overall look of the fur while using almost half the memory.

    That really depends on the lighting. In this piece, I had to up the line tesselation on the Direwolf's tail because it was virtually see-through. I think I ended up using 3 for the tail and 1 for the rest of the body. 

     

    Oh yeah I as sort of unclear there, tessalation can very much change the lighting 

     

    PR Interpolation length is the one here that I was reffering to having the least visual impact.

     

     

  • zombietaggerungzombietaggerung Posts: 3,726

    Is there any way to save those settings as some sort of quick preset so that I don't have to re-do them for every furred thing I have? Not that I have many, but if I could make it some sort of material/shader setting that would be great.

  • j cadej cade Posts: 2,310

    zombietaggerung said:

    Is there any way to save those settings as some sort of quick preset so that I don't have to re-do them for every furred thing I have? Not that I have many, but if I could make it some sort of material/shader setting that would be great.

    you can definitely make shader presets for it. I wasn't sure if it would mess with what shader was being used so I made one to test, and it didn't you'll need to select the object and surfaces obviously.

     

    sadly you can't make presets to halve and or double values as far as I know. I was hoping you could just make a preset with a value of *.5, but it did not work :(

    duf
    duf
    segment interpolation 1.0.duf
    81K
  • zombietaggerungzombietaggerung Posts: 3,726

    Ah, good to know thanks. yes

  • montrealfilmguymontrealfilmguy Posts: 127

    I am really happy to have found this thread and all those wonderful infos and settings.

    I have 32 gb of RAM for now.

    talk about a cuteness overload 3d pup taxing your system.

  • 3D Vitality3D Vitality Posts: 115

    A really big THANK YOU to all who spend their knowledge to solve my problem! yesheartyessmiley

    With a combination of the advices I found good settings and now the little rascal works like charm. Birthday card is just save *phew*!  (and no, pic is not the card, just want to show that it now works wink)

    Cheers, Paul

    pudgy01.jpg
    429 x 600 - 125K
  • gitika1gitika1 Posts: 948

    Crashes Daz for me as well.

  • gitika1gitika1 Posts: 948
    edited August 2021

    3D Vitality said:

    mininessie said:

    ok ...i found this in the surfaces tab.

    Hair generation mode, if you change from "Target surfaces" to " Root radius" the fur renders.

    I think i will have to set more things because the hair is so tiny,but at least it works, and DS don´t crashes.

    Thanks for the advice, yes, it render then, but the result is ....ummm.... strange, at least for me. Like without fur. 

    I have the same results with https://www.daz3d.com/pudgy-the-corgi.

    Post edited by gitika1 on
  • gitika1gitika1 Posts: 948

    Task Manager Open, render settings on GPU only, only Pudgy in the scene:  31,788.2 MB and 99.5% CPU usage.  

    That is with ritzeratze's suggtion of: PR Interpolation Segment Length: 0.5.  Without that change, Pudgy crashed DS.

  • regenesis0regenesis0 Posts: 3

    I *cough* brute-forced it;= to make the model work; I increased my paging file (virtual memory) to 100gb.

    It takes about 4 minutes for it to generate the fur density map, burbling up and down through the BM files, and then it renders happy as a clam.  (But doesn't free up the memory it used to generate the fur desnity map, even though it now has the map.)
    The EXTREMELY frustrating thing about this is that the memory-hog part of this is the generation of the fur-density map every time you render, which can take upwards of 70(!) gb of memory to calculate due to inefficiency.  The rendering ITSELF is not horribly top-heavy, just the initial map generation.

    Is it possible to cache the fur-density map and save it out rather than recalculating it each time?  That should bypass the memory blowup.

     

    (You still probably want to turn down the fir detail in many cases, but the density map generation is criminally inefficient.)

  • gitika1gitika1 Posts: 948

    Pufflet the Bunny runs at 15.3% CPU and 11,004.5 MB with no changes to the initial load.  There is definitely something up with Pudgy.

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