February Contest Thread “Lighting” (WIP Thread)
DollyGirl
Posts: 2,656
New User's Contest - February 2015
Sponsored by DAZ 3D and ThespiSis
Are you new to the 3D World? Are you at the beginning stages of learning 3D rendering? Have you been around for a little bit but feel you could benefit from some feedback or instruction? Have you been around awhile and would like to help other members start their creative journey? Well then come and join the fun as we host our newest contest...
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"Lighting"
This contest is a general render contest with the focus being on how you use light in your image. We're providing you with links on Lighting from a variety of sources. Where composition is key to pulling a viewer into your image and leading their eye to where you want them to see things, lighting is what defines and enhances the viewer's experience when looking at an image. Lighting helps a viewer to "see" the story. The presense of light or the lack thereof are elements that provide us with the ability to believe the world we are looking at. It can tell us if an object is round, wither it is close or far away, what colors were used and even if the surface is reflective. As an artist it will be your mastering the use of light that will set you apart from the others. Your ability to control, where, how much and what kind of light is used in the image that will make a well composed image become exceptional. Below is a source list of lighting tutorials, articles and videos that will help you understand how to use your software, the different techniques used to light a scene and the theory behind why lighting is needed. This list is not compreshensive but a starting point.
How to Use Your Software:
in DAZ Studio
VII - Lights
Light Editor
Point Lights, the Basics
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/25899/ (ideal for those who have purchased Gia 6, but the lighting tips can be used even if you haven't)
http://www.daz3d.com/great-art-now-step-5-lights
Modifiers to Basic DAZ Studio Lights -IBL or HDR type lighting environments
UberEnvironment2 Basics
Learning UberEnvironment 2 Return to Topic
Uber Area Lighting: The Basics
in Poser
Poser – Lighting 101 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QWWXZ64ZiM
Poser Lighting 102 (Attenuation) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofj-vOgbwsQ
Poser Lighting 103 (Shadows) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbHQTXiGrx0
Poser Lighting 201 (Ambient Occlusion) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GZbHV7MJD4
in Carrara
Chapter 14: Setting Lights
in Bryce
Artist’s guide page 125
Bryce: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C772CuZ6RgI
Bryce: http://www.bryce-tutorials.info/bryce-tutorials/lighting-and-skies.html#
Bryce: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH58aGjCfR8
Bryce: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_mzhnLRx0s
Bryce: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-Pe-IVp_dY
Theory:
Mastering Lighting in Blender the first 25 minutes of the video.
Lighting Basics:
http://www.amaanakram.com/lightingT/part1.htm
https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/the-basics-of-the-art-of-lighting-part-1-simple-principles-of-and-techniques-for-creating-artful-lighting
http://www.3drender.com/light/3point.html
http://bensimonds.com/2010/06/03/lighting-tips-from-the-masters/
Examples of Lighting:
Some Examples
I will be checking in as will the rest of the Community Volunteers to try and help with anything you all may need.
For a list of the current contest rules, please see this thread : Contest Rules
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Closing Date: February 28th 2015
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Comments
No image yet, but sharing a video by Benjamin VonWong that I personally find both inspirational and educational on lighting. He makes real world photographs that are more fantastic than I create in Daz Studio...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxG6q-dnLl8&list=UU3nwjkQcNkigjzqJXL-jRUA&index=7
This is an image I was working on for the January Dawn or Destruction contest in the Member's Only area. I did not enter or post this image anywhere. I was never completely satisfied with it so set it aside.
I am considering reducing it to a portrait shot. I need to fix the tangent between the horse's left ear and the saddle horn. I am wondering if that is partly what was bugging me and I could not see it at the time :-S ( thanks Cris :-) )
This is really nice Kismet, love the colour of the sky but I feel that the grass is too green. To me it seems a bit un-natural and makes it the main focal point.
:) Cris, a couple of suggestions: You might try moving the camera angle to place the sky as a dominant 2/3rd of the upper half. This would take away some of the emphasis on the grass. I also feel the grass is "too" green, making it feel unnatural. Additionally, I would add a spotlight to act as a fill light on the fronts of your characters. You'll have to play with the intensity, suggest you start with 20%. Shadows should probably be turned off, which I believe is the default setting. Finally, move your subjects noticeably to the right of center, you may like the composition better. :-)
Kismet, I think this would be a great render to work on because this image is all about lighting. By your comments you have a sense that things are just not quite right with it's current state and that is the first step to making a render a good piece of art. Both aaron575 and Giovanni have some good suggestions. I will add in some more.
So I am guessing that you were going for an early morning light scheme. If you haven't already, I would suggest that you do an image search of early morning landscapes. When you are looking at the images remember what Giovanni told you about proportion of sky to land. Pick out pictures you like and ask yourself why do I like these images in particular. Don't forget about composition. What do you want to be your focal point. Remember that contrast, color and position all need to be addressed. I have attached your image with the sweet spots identified.
Since you have chosen to put the sun in the image one of the things you want to look critically at is where your shadows are with respect to where the sun is. So Giovanni's suggestion of keeping shadows off when adding additional light is an excellent one.
Looking forward to seeing what you do.
Thanks for sharing this! :)
Hi! I have never tried adding links or attachments to a post here, so hopefully this works!
I have been using Daz since about the beginning of Dec and I have been working on this scene for about three weeks. I have been struggling with learning to balance the lights in the scene with the shader on the skin to give good skin tones, and also have wanted to make god-rays in the worst way! I come from a Blender/Photoshop background, so the perspective of learning the rendering and lighting of 3-d scenes is entirely new to me. I am working on two images, one a portrait because I have "good skin envy", and one a more comprehensive view of the interaction because of the interest in creating compelling light set up that helps tell a story. I am only posting the second for now...
What I would like to create, particularly in this second more distant point of view, is a sense of the moon shining in on a sad little girl. She is sad because the grampa she adores is scolding her. He is out of camara view but he shows up (more or less subtly depending on the lighting version of the render) reflected in the mirror. The she is the youngest child and only girl of a large,orphaned bunch of children that now live with widower grampa is a simple log cabin, where she has an attic bedroom. Her hair is messy because grampa struggles with helping her manage all those curls. She only has her brothers faded, too-big-hand-me-downs for clothes, but she has used the excess material to make bows for her hair. The space is rustic and dingy and not much of a room for a little girl but grampa tries to give her little things every now and then, like flowered sheets his wife had stowed away . Her best friend, besides grampa, is an old faded bear. (Still working on retexturing the bear to give the sense of old and worn, its a new addition!)
The lighting set up-5 light sources..kinda complicated for a first project but I see the things the cool kids do and want to do them. I could really use help!
1. Ambient on the walls, window frame, barrel and lamp set to dark blue. Struggling to make the room feel dark led me to the desperate measures of changing the ambient. I really wanted to light the scene without using Image Based Lighting. Blech!! Is it too blue? Too light or dark?
2. UberBounce set with the KHPark texture option, (because it has high contrast(?)) with saturation and contrast set to max, colored dark blue with the shadows rotated to be coming towards the camera, as if from the moon light. Distant lights set to very faint white from left, right, and above.
The moon in the window is an uber light plane with a color image in the diffuse, ambient and strength tabs, with a mask in the opacity tab to make a "hole" where the moon is . The beam is an uber spot in white, and the cone is a cornflower blue. (I linked a screenshot of its settings) Both the uber spotlight and the uber volume cone shine through the "hole". (I needed to make this "hole" or the spotlight and cone would be blocked by the light plane?) This setup worked okay but it left an area that was transparent in the rendering behind the cone/light because of this hole, so I added another light plane, with a light sphere and point light to fill it in with light. Dialing the intensity of the cool light of the window and volume cone vs the warm light on the figure has been a challenge and I would appreciate feedback...
There is a point light on the lantern. I read somewhere that candle light should be a light brown? I wish the warm lantern light had more definition... I tried adding a volume sphere to it, but the sphere gets "stuck" inside the glass. It would be funny if it wasn't frustrating! Maybe add a volume sphere that is behind the glass, outside of it?
Lighting on the figures: Mainly coming from the left, below. There is a wide white,medium strength spot on her and the bear, a warm yellow highlight and a warm peach highlight on her cheekbones/forehead, and from above/right a pale blue wide/soft fill light. (This last is still making a shadow on her face from me adding the bear... plan on softening the shadow so it does not do that any more!) I thought about adding a cool rim, but I think the moon beam is doing what a rim light would to some extent? Although it would be nice if I could get some halo effect going on behind her head. Also I think the front arm and bear are looking too low contrast and flat, I probably need to add a light for them that does not hit the face since I want them brighter while not necessarily making the face brighter...(?)
I want the lighting of the moon shining in the background to be dramatic, and right now I don't think it is dramatic enough? But also I want the girl and the warm light in the room to be the focus. Also, I am not sure if I like seeing or not seeing much of "grampa" in the reflection. It was pointed out to me that it could look kinda creepy and stalkerish.. maybe it is better to let people wonder why she looks forlorn? Adding him to the scene makes it so busy and the figures were starting to be tiny, hence I thought about cheating him into the scene via the mirror. Also the camera is in some ways his point of view, so maybe "who is she looking at" could bring him into the scene without seeing him? Maybe another pane in the story board gives more details? Also... every time I try to add tears or sadness to her facial expression, whether I use pre-mades or do it manually, the expression looks over-done. I know this is a lighting challenge but help on that front would also be appreciated.
Sorry for the long post. Please help! :-)
Screenshot of viewport showing setup
Rendered with 3Delight
Well, in the spirit of picking up past projects that I couldn't figure out the lighting on...
I originally started this for the Christmas contest, but couldn't figure out the lighting...so using this as yet another great opportunity to learn.
As always, any and all feedback more than welcomed.
Thank you fionathegood for coming in and playing with us. I hope that I can help you. So I understand that you want god rays and that wonderful SSS skin that we see so much now a days. You want the image to be dimly lit with concentrated beams of light.
So good news is that using spot lights is the right way to go to control how much light you want to see in a scene. I would suggest that you look at this set of UberEnvironment presets http://inaneglory.deviantart.com/art/Simple-Soft-Lighting-Freebie-193115008. One of the presets is a full moon lighting configuration. What is cool about this set is that you click on the preset you want and it comes in with spots and the environment all set up. The spots are parented to a null object called a target and you just move the target where you want it. I believe that in your case it would be the little girl. Targeting helps keep your light set orientated the same way and you only have to move the target and DAZ will do the rest. I highly recommend playing with the set. They have been my starting point on lots of renders and makes my set up so much easier.
I can see that you are using an uberenvironment option, UberBounce, but I think that the usage in your scene is not going to get you what you want. I think you will be experiencing long render times for very little value. Adam talks about his experiences with this option here: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/5320/#67937 in post #9. As you can see from his picture the effect is very subtle in a brightly lit room so in your scene not sure it will work very well.
You did lots of work to create your moon light and it is a cool effect, but I think that you might want to watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umL5Fu--W8c by Frozen Florida Photography to help you with the ubervolume shader and lights, especially placement. I also found out that you can take any shape and apply the ubervolume shader to it. I found this thread to be of interest http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/18815/. I could not find a good way to take the ubervolume light presets to make rays as such. The shader has no ability to take maps so it might be a hit or miss on getting your godrays that way. I do know of a prop that acts like godrays by Sickleyield. You can find it here: http://www.sharecg.com/v/72345/browse/21/DAZ-Studio/SY-Easy-Godrays-DS. Based upon your knowledge of how the ubervolume lights work you could make do with the godray prop and a spotlight and maybe get your godrays that way.
For your lantern, I don't think you need a volume light just a good ol' point light. The lantern in image 12 below is set at 100% intensity, color is 255, 222, 138. No shadows. I used a spot pointing down on the scene using the same color, intensity of 9% spread angle of 180. No shadows. If you want more of a candle light then I would try doing this little tut. http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/14536/P405 start at post #419 and continue to read through to page 29.
I think your composition of the scene will work the way it is. I would be careful about where I want the viewer to perceive the light sources. In the current version of your image your light source is coming from the front left but your lamp is back left of the subject.
To help with your skin texture issue I think this should be your bible http://docs.daz3d.com/lib/exe/fetch.php/public/read_me/index/16324/16324_subsurface-shader-base.pdf. The shader comes with DAZ Studio.
Facial expressions are sometimes really hard to do. I know I fail most times because I do not take tiny steps to change the facial morphs. I get hung up with if I see a big happy smile then I should be pushing that slider way far to replicate the emotion. In fact it is the opposite. I must make tiny changes, like a tenth or one hundredth percent change. Emotions are really very subtle. We just think because we can see them so easily that they are big changes. Maybe someone knows of a way to reset your facial expression morphs and then start over. I do notice that although you have drawn her brow down that the outside corner of her eyes have not been pulled down for such a big change in her brow. Also her raised cheeks would indicate a smile behind her bear.
When you start to play with water such as tears, you will have to set up your scene in such a way that it is completely enclosed, i.e. inside of a sphere or a box. You will need to render using ray tracing, reflections and you will have to bump up your Ray Trace Depth to ensure you get enough photons to bounce around in your scene to get that clear water look. This is true for glass as well. Image 14 is of a render I did of a clear vase with water in it.
So I hope I have given you some direction. There is lots to learn but that is to me what is fun. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
Hi smurph9, glad you could come and play. So I like how you have cast the light from the campfire. I am not sure where you want to go with this image. What is the story? Shipwrecked and they have only one lime between them? Is this the moment when Robinson kisses the girl or when Robin meets her boy Friday?
What ever the story is we need to remember our composition guidelines. I have attached your image with the dreaded sweet spots.
Looking forward to seeing what you do. :-)
Hi, Kismet. You have some great opportunities here to play with light. Remember that things diminish in detail with distance. Colors also become more muted/sometimes pastelish depending on the lighting. Your sunrise is very bright and yellow...it needs to cast that over your scene...almost glow on the edges of your figures, perhaps and blend into cool areas as the front/right (to our view) sides of the figures have less of the yellow sun on them. Play with depth of field and haze. Be careful not to diminish your figures...let them be large enough and break the horizon. Have fun!
I am learning to use Age of Armors Advanced Lights and think they are amazing.
In this scene I have two ambient and three spotlights, I would like to add some fog eventually. I haven't done anything to the characters or costume surfaces yet, going to wait untill the lighting is finished.
Japanese Butterfly
I have a couple of questions being new to DAZ contest participation. The image posted here was originally conceived for participation in the weekly contest, can it be submitted to both contests? Additionally, I have created separate art for use as a backdrop, which of course results in an image with no cast shadows on the backdrop. I could create a "new primitive plane" as a physical backdrop so that the figure may actually cast her shadow on the wings. Looking for opinions, thanks. :-)
Gobos are so neat. I enjoy AoA's products. He is the reason I can create real grass and water in DAZ. You beginning looks good aaron575. Looking forward to what you come up with.
Giovanni, per the rules of this contest
"8. Please enter images created specifically for this contest and not previously available for public viewing. "
so my take is no if you want this one to be for this contest then you should not enter it in the weekly contest and vice a versa if you enter it in the weekly you should not enter it in this contest.
On your background dilemma, DAZ Studio has a feature called Shadow Catcher. Here is a link to a freebie duf preset that might help you. http://www.sharecg.com/v/70391/gallery/21/DAZ-Studio/Shadow-Catcher-For-DAZ-Studio-4.5+.
Also there are two videos for DAZ Studio 3 by Carnite that explain the process here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo2OVy9tf8E and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrWtXnijQ_k There is not much difference between version 3 and 4 of Studio. The videos should be insightful as well.
Dollygirl, thanks for the clarification and additional info, sounds worthwhile. :)
Your welcome Giovanni.
The story is all about the willingness to share all that she has in the world (in this case, a lime) and the joy that it brings her...
I've tried adjusting the composition, but despite the great help last month, one project is clearly not enough for composition to sink in yet...but I'll keep at it.
On the lighting side, I have an uber environment turned down low and a point light embedded in the fire. I like the glow on the figures, but not the 'hot' spot in the fire...help...
I'll be away on business for a few days, so although I'll read and try to absorb feedback soonest, I won't be rendering or resubmitting until next weekend at the earliest...I'm not ignoring the help; I just won't have my home computer with me.
Made lots of adjustments...most of which were based on the very helpful suggestions.
The grass was a bit of a pain.
Wow, what a difference! For me, I feel like you need a touch more light on the subjects. It is a very bright sun, so the ambient light I feel would be stronger on the subject. Using a spotlight with shadows off could do the trick. Changes are great! :-)
Abandoned Fish Camp Circa 1938
Well, now I could use some input. These contests are such a great way to learn. Lighting is used for many purposes, I have chosen light to set the mood. The sun is low on the horizon and has not yet burned off the early morning haze, giving everything a bit of a "bluish" cast. The setting is late 30's to early 40's. Not only is the light intended to set the mood, it also establishes that there are people about. Lights and settings follow:
1. UberEnvironment 2 - Color 211 250 255 (pale blue) Intensity Scale 120% Saturation 200% Scale/size 787%
2. Point light Color 255 222 121 (yellowish) Intensity 400%
This light is necessary to give the "fire" credibility, as it casts a warm glow on the open truck door.
3. Point lights 2&3 Color 255 229 124 Intensity 20%
These are the black truck headlights
4. Point lights 4&5 Color (Same as 2&3) Intensity 15%
These lights are used to give the headlights credibility, casting just a bit of light on the bumper.
The final image size will be 18"x24" rendered at 300dpi. Feedback appreciated. Thanks!
That grass might have been a pain but it looks so much better now. Well done!
I am not very good at giving feedback, mostly because I do not know what to suggest to improve an image. Not sure if you will find this helpful but your image gives me the impression of a painting.
That grass might have been a pain but it looks so much better now. Well done!
Thank you.
:-) KISMET2012, thank you! That is what I'm striving for; when I first discovered DAZ3D I thought how the great art masters would have loved this as a tool to compose their compositions, play with light, texture, and color before they ever put a brush to canvas. Multiple levels of undo is very liberating to an artist. Your feedback is encouraging. Thanks.
Hello everybody,
here is my WIP for Febuary. There are some questions I have in advance.
1. I hope the presentation of the baby doesn't violence the nudity policy. If so please tell me, then I will have to come up with a different idea.
2. The pictures I used for the screens are collected from the internet, mainly from scientific sources or from advertising of labware company.
I included the references in tiny green writing under each of the pictures. Again, I have to ask if this is a good way of handling it ?.
Ok. hitting a lot of borders here, including mine own. Being a mom myself this scene was kind of disturbing for me and I hope no one will take offence in this. But there it was in my head and wanted out.
I call it "Edge of Life " and its done in DAZ 3d studio 4.7 pro with pre work preparing the screen textures in windows paint.
Now to the llights I have the key light on the woman and a fill light. There are 3 Area light tubes in the back of the room : in this context what are the arear head lamp blockers for, I'm not shure what and how to use that.
Then there are the spots form up an down in the test tube and and area light disks (i would like to have them coloured, but that doesn't seem to work an another arar head light blocker. And last there are three linear points lights for the screens.
Well now I would like to hear your thoughts. Aside from the fact that the woman need to be posed better, her shoulders still bug me.
*Image removed, See post below*
Linwelly,. I really like what you have going on, I hope that it falls within the contest guidelines! I especially LOVE the reflection on the glass. I think I would like to see a little bit of the baby image hitting the glass as well, perhaps towards the viewer opposite the mother reflection? I think if you give the baby a light, a reflection will cast from the inside out, or maybe fiddle with the opacity of the glass? All I know is that I like seeing the candle on inside of the glass of the lantern in my scene, and I think the effect would be great in yours... unfortunately (or fortunately) my lantern was a premade- I added the flame and point light to the inside but I didnt create the glass surface, only altered it to make it more transparent, so I don't know which dial is creating that effect.
I will tackle one of the short answer questions:
Headlamp Blocker: The short answer is its a Uber Environment they give you just in case you dont have one, and you should delete it if you have other lights. I quoted more than just the answer below because the other stuff, esp the HAIR info, is really helpful
Again.. I look forward to seeing where you go with this.
from the UberAreaLight Wiki
Oh, I almost forgot.... shoulders. I think part of the issue is that they are too square. Try adjusting the traps, found under neck in the shaping tab. Also the shoulders are perhaps a bit wide. She ought to look somewhat "manly" to give that scientific feel, but its too much. Looking at the figure from direct front, think of men as shaped like a point-down triangle like taper from the shoulders to the hips,and females as a rectangle, with more or less hourglass. Hope this helps!
Given that we stay with the golden rule, I think we need to add just a bit more detail say like a palm bush that can reflect some of the campfire light and help make the eye travel from your young man to the young woman. Play with the ambient setting on the fire to bring the intensity down. I would also try to separate the young man from the background a bit more. Back lighting on him to give him a halo effect will also develop the path a bit better. Putting a spot on the focus of the image is also a way to bring the eye into the picture and make it travel from the lime to the girl across the image and onto the young man's face and body.
I would also look at pose and expressions. You mention joy, I see pleasure but no joy. Usually if one is giving something willingly then body language will also reflect that. With the girl's elbows extended out away from the body that is more a defense position. Elbows in, means you are comfortable with the person, they are equal in status and you feel no danger from them.
Just some ideas for you to mull over this week. Looking forward to seeing what you do.
Kismet you have done a wonderful job on the grass. Can you share with us about your success, please?
Very much of an improvement. As Giovanni has mentioned you could lighten up your cowboy to add interest. My suggestion would be to put the cowboy and the horse more in shadow making them a silhouette instead. Both of these ideas could be good ones but they do demonstrate that as a certain point an image has pretty much all the most egregious issues in lighting and composition addressed and now it is time to just play and tweek until you get something you like.
Looking forward to seeing what you do.