Product INSTALL issue
john_97a982ce
Posts: 314
Why do I have to install twice from DIM for products to truly install in DAZ Studios? I first install through DIM, then I go to DAZ Studios and see that the product appears in Content Library, but there's a white box in the thumbnail's upper right corner. So, it hasn't really been installed. I then have to "Delete" from Content Library and Re-Install through DIM. Then Content Library displays that it has been installed correctly. This has to be a huge, consistent, glitch. Yes, the install links are the same in both DIM and DS.
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Comments
The white box indicates that it hasn't been installed through Connect - but if it's working then you don't need to. The marker is informational, not an error you need to do something about.
I found that it can be placed in a scene with the white box present in the upper right corner, however, even the Smart Content thumbnail shows a need to install. This is going to drive me crazy. I don't like what seems to be half-installed products. I understand what you're saying but it does feel like half-measures on DAZ's part. I don't like it. It's bad housekeeping. What happens if I allow it to install from Content Libray after an install through DIM?
Then you will be installing the content the second time to a completely different location, which also makes your first installation with DIM just waste of storage space.
If you do not log in to DS, DAZ Connect in Smart Content should not be asking for you to install products the second time as it cannot call DAZ to ask which products you have bought.
The only purpose for logging in to DS is to install content with DAZ Connect.
Are you saying that I do not need to have DS open when I install through DIM?
No you don't
I thought the point was that DS doesn't need to go online unless you are using Connect to install - but DS can be open or closed while installing through DIM, the thing to avoid is closing DS and immediately starting DIM or Daz Central as the timing can lead to the database not being available to the installer, which can cause issues.
A while ago, I asked a question that turned into a lengthy thread. In it, I was advised by many members to have both DIM and DS open when installing through DIM. Now, I'm being told here NOT to open DS at all when installing. I've stopped buying a lot of content due to issues with DS. Mostly because of the Lost & Found and installation fiascoes. When I buy another product I will try this not opening DS at all. After that install, hopefully, I will NOT see any white box after the DIM install.
If you install a plugin you don't want to have DS open at the same time, since you'll need to restard DS anyway for the new plugin to work. If you're installing content, then it doesn't matter if DS is open or not.
As Richard mentioned, the white box means "that product wasn't installed with Connect", so it will be there if you install content with DIM. If you don't want the box, install your content with Connect, not DIM.
Or do not log in to DS, but configure DS to operate in offline-mode, that way DAZ Connect has no way of checking if there was something not installed with DAZ Connect => No white boxes.
Good point. If you don't install with Connect you don't need to work online anyway.
Unfortunately this is not the case.
What actually happens here is that 'Connect' will recognize the installed product in the database, recognize the fact that it is actually installed but... not in the Connect library thus you still get to see the download/install indicators in the upper right corner. See also my attachment.
So how can you recognize that something is actually installed or not? Yah, I dunno who thought of this one but I really dislike this dumb design: it depends on the color of the product icon! So... if the icon is colorized then it means the product is already installed but if it's black/white then you need to install it using Connect. Unfortunately, as shown in my screenshot, Connect doesn't care at all that something is already installed and will always show the install/download indicator unless it's installed in the Connect library. Which is why I'm calling this a dumb and/or pain out stupid design.
Harsh words but... see: they could also have opted to hide the download/install indicator instead of changing the product icon into black/white.
Let's just say I'm not a fan and.. yah, years ago I also fell into this "trap", I ended up freeing tens of gigabytes just by resetting my entire connect library.
Doesn't do that on mine.
I'm using manual installation only and have never logged in to DS, not letting DS check for updates and not participating on the Improvement Program = DS does not call DAZ servers for anything.
Me too, PerttiA - I've never used Connect, I don't log on to the Daz Store from DS (in fact my DS computer is not normally internet-connected) and I never get any download/install indicators anywhere.
Thanks for your feedback (and you too @MelanieL!).
My conclusions were obviously a bit too premature (though I think we can all agree that the best cause of action here in order to avoid confusion is to never login at all).
After reading your post I started looking for a better example and actually found one, but it only disputed my earlier conclusion :)
'Connect' does not check with your regular library to see what's available or not (that was my mistake), but once you've logged on (even for once) then everything will provide you with a download option. Installed or not doesn't matter. Logged on or not also doesn't matter anymore.
I've attached a better example....as you can see the black/white comment is definitely true, but what I managed to overlook was that it gets added to your stuff (note how "Noah" is listed twice?).
IMO this part of Daz Studio is really best ignored.... :/
(edit: apologies for the nude image, I forgot that a male figure without any clothes still accounted for this. fixed!)
I clicked the "Work Offline" button and then the "Do not show this again" box on the lower left of the logon screen before clicking 'Next' a long time ago. It can be re-enabled in Preferences if you change your mind, but this keeps me from accidentaly loging in.
DAZ warns against installing products twice using both Connect and DIM, apart from creating duplicate files it can cause problems in Smart Content with some products. I've experienced this myself.
In my opinion, the conclusion here is to say that DAZ should opt only to use the black white/color thumbnail to indicate if the product is installed or not. Get rid of the little white or colored indicator in the upper right corner.
That is a matter of taste, though. Having a visual indicator is useful on occasion.
I believe there is a thread I started that instructs how to uninstall Connect installs to be re-installed only through DIM. I'll try to locate that thread, and make a decision. If I decide only to install through Connect then the white box won't be there but that won't preserve the install files for later re-installs-- correct? This entire topic points to clumsy installation choices. Does DAZ have enough staff left to address this issue? I've noticed that the new products seem uninspired like they lost their best talent.
FURTHER complications with a DIM-only install: I set DS to not log in on start. Installed "HDRI Clean Skies" through DIM. Then, I opened DS (not logged in) and searched for the installation. It showed the thumbnail as a black & white image (uninstalled) with the white box. So, that procedure didn't work. What's up with that? See attachment.
This is probably why you had things installing through Connect when you didn't want them - either a content management system issue (the database was not running when DIM installed possible if you closed DS and then immediately opened DIM - or theer is a communication issue) or the DIM path is not a Daz Studio content directory, so the installed files are not seeen. Can you find and use the files for the product under Daz Studio Formats? If so it's a database issue, if not it's probably a pathing issue.
A while back, I used a program that you (I believe it was you) that checked the paths. It came up clean. Back when we worked through this before, I uninstalled everything entirely, using your steps. Then reinstalled. That time I allowed DIM to save the files instead of deleting the package. "Re-installing" from DIM does not fix this communication issue. I have my content files installed to an external drive, but both DIM and DS are synced up. Do you have any record of that thread we communicated on before?
So are the files available under Daz Studio Formats in the Content Library? They are not grouped by product so you may need to check the readme (you can get that from Install manager by clicking the i icon to the right of the product name). If theya re, do they load? If the answers there are yes then the instalaltion itself is fine.
OK. Also, do you know why it seems to install correctly if I find the white box and then delete the product from Content Library and then install again through DIM. The white box does not reappear, until later. And if that happens then a repeat of the process usually does the trick.
WONDER OF WONDERS! Today, I purchased several new items and installed them with DS open, and then opened DIM. I then installed it through DIM only and looked at Content Library. To my surprise, ALL of the items were installed without the white box. What changed? See the attachment. I unchecked all but one of the Startup boxes in the Startup preferences.
The available for download through Connect icon can't appear until DS knows you own the product - when you delete the Product you remove it from the CMS unless/until you go back online and DS downloads your current order history, the same thing applies to items you purchased after last letting DS connect.
Install ONLY with DIM, stop installing through DAZ Studio. Metadata is not needed if you use only the Content Library pane and only the DAZ Studio Formats and Poser Formats which you should do when troubleshooting content issues.
'Smart' Content uses metadata to categorize the products, but you don't need to log in/sign in to DS and install products inside DS for the metadata to be written to the database, DIM can write the metadata to the database just the same.
Even with manual installation, you can read the metadata into the database if one wants to use the 'Smart' Content. The files are saved in ...\Runtime\Support\ and can be refreshed/updated into the database.
Niot true, the metadata is also used by some other features to identify what they are working on. Of coruse you do get metadata from DIM/Daz Central isntalls, or from manual installs folowed by a reimport of metadata, but please don't muddy the waters with overly sweeping statements.
See my attachment above. When I started this thread all of those boxes were checked. Now, after unchecking all but one the items are installed by DIM and appear in DS without the white box. Why did this simple fix do the trick (as far as I can tell)?