I'm done buying from vendors who don't give promo credit - mini rant

hwgs1971

These boards are full of "what hair is this?" and what clothes are these?" posts. From now on before I purchase I am going to check the "Additional products used in promo images" section. If it is not populated, no sale. If the vendor cannot give credit to others when using their work in promos, then I'll buy from someone else. It's even sillier when the vendor doesn't even list their own assets as those that were used.  You just cost yourself two sales.

There are a couple of assets I'd like to buy today, but I want to recreate them exactly as shown in the promos. Since the vendor does not say which additional assets were used, I cannot recreate it, so no sale.

Ascania

Okay. Goodbye.

Richard Haseltine

There are two points to bear in mind - first, Daz does not allow credits/links to non-Daz products; second, soem vendors have said they did provide lists and that the lists were not used (there is a limit to how much can sensibly be fitted at the end of the product page).

Leana

Other points to consider:

• some PAs hire promo artists to do the promos for them, so they don't even know what was used.
• some promo artists use custom content in their promos, so there wouldn't be anything to list to for that item anyway.

AllenArt

Well, that's your choice. Hope it works out for you.

Laurie

FSMCDesigns

I could care less if there are promo credits as long as it's a quality product.

hwgs1971

Ehhh...I guess at this point it doesn't really matter anymore. I've dropped $3,000 in assets and have a zillion shaders, realistically how much more will I be buying at this point anyway?The exception is Riversoft Art or Outoftouch, I will buy anything those great vendors put out regardless of circumstances. Richard made a couple of interesting points, as always.

Galaxy

You can try bundles. Every item is included.

Leana

hwgs1971 said:

realistically how much more will I be buying at this point anyway?

Judging from all the people I've seen posting "oh I have so much content already, I don't need more" before, probably way more than you think ;)

WendyLuvsCatz

believe me even over 20K I haven't stopped buying and I am a lightweight 

(sounds a lot but 11 years worth)

NylonGirl

I think there are people who stop buying things for various reasons. When those people publicly state the reasons they're not buying things, that should be considered valuable information for the people running the store. Otherwise they'll just see customers or product creators leave, and have no idea what went wrong.

magog_a4eb71ab

hwgs1971 said:

These boards are full of "what hair is this?" and what clothes are these?" posts. From now on before I purchase I am going to check the "Additional products used in promo images" section. If it is not populated, no sale. If the vendor cannot give credit to others when using their work in promos, then I'll buy from someone else. It's even sillier when the vendor doesn't even list their own assets as those that were used.  You just cost yourself two sales.

There are a couple of assets I'd like to buy today, but I want to recreate them exactly as shown in the promos. Since the vendor does not say which additional assets were used, I cannot recreate it, so no sale.

You're only going to succeed in punishing the PA for Daz's policies and your lack of creativity. I can't imagine the importance of duplicating a promo render when a lot of the fun is recreating the scene with a different flare. If me buying & using Daz products was so dependent on duplicating promo images, I would've just gave up on 3D rendering altogether. Its a lot more satifying making a scene that looks just as good vs copying it exactly.

ChadCrypto

Galaxy said:

You can try bundles. Every item is included.

This is  not neccesarly true.  Depending on the bundle. Even then some have images with different hair or other items that don't come with the bundles.

 

nonesuch00

I don't even look at all the advertising pictures or read the advertising text before I buy.

FSMCDesigns

magog_a4eb71ab said:

hwgs1971 said:

These boards are full of "what hair is this?" and what clothes are these?" posts. From now on before I purchase I am going to check the "Additional products used in promo images" section. If it is not populated, no sale. If the vendor cannot give credit to others when using their work in promos, then I'll buy from someone else. It's even sillier when the vendor doesn't even list their own assets as those that were used.  You just cost yourself two sales.

There are a couple of assets I'd like to buy today, but I want to recreate them exactly as shown in the promos. Since the vendor does not say which additional assets were used, I cannot recreate it, so no sale.

You're only going to succeed in punishing the PA for Daz's policies and your lack of creativity. I can't imagine the importance of duplicating a promo render when a lot of the fun is recreating the scene with a different flare. If me buying & using Daz products was so dependent on duplicating promo images, I would've just gave up on 3D rendering altogether. Its a lot more satifying making a scene that looks just as good vs copying it exactly.

Agreed.

I have helped quite a few users find products in promo images and usually it was as simple as doing a search in one of the stores, but it still bewilders me how many seem to place such importance in finding items used in promo images.

My favorite thing that drives me crazy is users asking what character was used in a promo. With the ability to mix and match endless morphs, it is near impossible to tell what morphs the promo artist used

Fauvist

magog_a4eb71ab said:

hwgs1971 said:

These boards are full of "what hair is this?" and what clothes are these?" posts. From now on before I purchase I am going to check the "Additional products used in promo images" section. If it is not populated, no sale. If the vendor cannot give credit to others when using their work in promos, then I'll buy from someone else. It's even sillier when the vendor doesn't even list their own assets as those that were used.  You just cost yourself two sales.

There are a couple of assets I'd like to buy today, but I want to recreate them exactly as shown in the promos. Since the vendor does not say which additional assets were used, I cannot recreate it, so no sale.

You're only going to succeed in punishing the PA for Daz's policies and your lack of creativity. I can't imagine the importance of duplicating a promo render when a lot of the fun is recreating the scene with a different flare. If me buying & using Daz products was so dependent on duplicating promo images, I would've just gave up on 3D rendering altogether. Its a lot more satifying making a scene that looks just as good vs copying it exactly.

You don't understand - we often don't want the product the promo image is for, or want to re-create the promo image - what we want is a product IN the promo image - the un-named hair, or the un-named character.  There are a few vendors whom I resent so much for filling their promo images with un-named products that I refuse to even open ANY of their product pages.  If they can't be bothered to list what they used, then I can't be bothered to look at any of their products.  The customer is always right - even when they're wrong.  'Cause the customers are keeping this place open.

Rane

I've used waay too many small pieces, parts and widgets from so many different sets for each of my promos, kitbashing, as it were, that I can't even remember what was used for one individual set, much less how to find it in the store.  The customer is not always right.  You wouldn't say that if you've ever worked in retail.  I'm not losing any sleep from you, or anyone, refusing to buy my stuff, because there are PLENTY of other customers who do, who don't have your particular squeemishness.  Besides.  YOU CAN ALWAYS ASK.

Butch

hwgs1971 said:

These boards are full of "what hair is this?" and what clothes are these?" posts. From now on before I purchase I am going to check the "Additional products used in promo images" section. If it is not populated, no sale. If the vendor cannot give credit to others when using their work in promos, then I'll buy from someone else. It's even sillier when the vendor doesn't even list their own assets as those that were used.  You just cost yourself two sales.

There are a couple of assets I'd like to buy today, but I want to recreate them exactly as shown in the promos. Since the vendor does not say which additional assets were used, I cannot recreate it, so no sale.

If you "want to recreate them exactly as shown in the promos" why not just download the promo image?   

 

Fauvist

Rane said:

I've used waay too many small pieces, parts and widgets from so many different sets for each of my promos, kitbashing, as it were, that I can't even remember what was used for one individual set, much less how to find it in the store.  The customer is not always right.  You wouldn't say that if you've ever worked in retail.  I'm not losing any sleep from you, or anyone, refusing to buy my stuff, because there are PLENTY of other customers who do, who don't have your particular squeemishness.  Besides.  YOU CAN ALWAYS ASK.

I worked in retail as a display artist for 26 years while at the same time being a motion picture (union) set decorator.  You must have noticed that "what is the product used in this promo" is almost always asked about hair models, characters, and wardrobe.  If you have 3 things in your promo - a character,  a dress, and a hair model - how hard is it say what the hair and dress are?  When I was working in a high end department store and a customer asked where the prop picnic basket in the window could be found, if I didn't have a record of it, I'd phone around and ask my coworkers.  If they didn't know, I was authorized to sell the customer the one in the window, and I'd ask a manager to make-up a price. I was also authorized to GIVE THEM THE ITEM for free out of the window if it wasn't something of great value like an antique armoire (which we ALWAYS knew the origin of.)  The rule was "every customer has to leave the store smiling", and we'd do whatever we had to in order to get that reaction.  Any time a customer said something like, "I hate putting you to all this trouble - I ALWAYS replied, "That's what I'm here for."  Superior retailers never say, "I don't know" to any customer question.  If they wanted the Christmas decorations hanging from the ceiling, I'd get a ladder and take it down and give it to them at no charge.  If I saw any customer struggling to carry their purchases, I'd ask them if I could carry it to their car for them. If they wanted the ladder I was standing on, I'd call the hardware stores in the area until I found it.  I did this for 26 years and I enjoyed interacting with the public and finding them exactly what they wanted,  It was a pleasure working under these conditions.  I never once had a coflict with a customer.  And after I gave them the free picnic basket from the window - they'd come back and buy a $6000 blouse.

 

 

charles

Fauvist said:

Rane said:

I've used waay too many small pieces, parts and widgets from so many different sets for each of my promos, kitbashing, as it were, that I can't even remember what was used for one individual set, much less how to find it in the store.  The customer is not always right.  You wouldn't say that if you've ever worked in retail.  I'm not losing any sleep from you, or anyone, refusing to buy my stuff, because there are PLENTY of other customers who do, who don't have your particular squeemishness.  Besides.  YOU CAN ALWAYS ASK.

I worked in retail as a display artist for 26 years while at the same time being a motion picture (union) set decorator.  You must have noticed that "what is the product used in this promo" is almost always asked about hair models, characters, and wardrobe.  If you have 3 things in your promo - a character,  a dress, and a hair model - how hard is it say what the hair and dress are?  When I was working in a high end department store and a customer asked where the prop picnic basket in the window could be found, if I didn't have a record of it, I'd phone around and ask my coworkers.  If they didn't know, I was authorized to sell the customer the one in the window, and I'd ask a manager to make-up a price. I was also authorized to GIVE THEM THE ITEM for free out of the window if it wasn't something of great value like an antique armoire (which we ALWAYS knew the origin of.)  The rule was "every customer has to leave the store smiling", and we'd do whatever we had to in order to get that reaction.  Any time a customer said something like, "I hate putting you to all this trouble - I ALWAYS replied, "That's what I'm here for."  Superior retailers never say, "I don't know" to any customer question.  If they wanted the Christmas decorations hanging from the ceiling, I'd get a ladder and take it down and give it to them at no charge.  If I saw any customer struggling to carry their purchases, I'd ask them if I could carry it to their car for them. If they wanted the ladder I was standing on, I'd call the hardware stores in the area until I found it.  I did this for 26 years and I enjoyed interacting with the public and finding them exactly what they wanted,  It was a pleasure working under these conditions.  I never once had a coflict with a customer.  And after I gave them the free picnic basket from the window - they'd come back and buy a $6000 blouse.

 

 

You should call Lowes and tell them how to do business. My wife really wanted this new Doodle dog Christmas yard decoration. When I got to the local Lowes the only one they had was the display model. I checked my phone for availbility anywhere else and it was sold out of all stores for several surrounding states. I unplugged the the dog and took it up to the self checkout. When the tag on it didn't work a worker came over and offered to help. She asked if it was the display, and I said "Yes it's the only one anywhere." She said she didn't mind selling it to me but had to check with the manager, a few minutes later the manager came over and started yelling at the worker helping me that displays couldn't be sold. I asked if they were getting in more in before Christmas and she said "No", so "why can't I buy this one?" "Becuase that's our policy!" Yikes. 

charles

double post 

marble

I'm more keen on the promo having a good description of what is included. Is a room a single block or are the walls separate and can be hidden? Does that dress have morphs - sometime dForce needs a little help.When I see a big list in the product description I am more likely to buy.

magog_a4eb71ab

Fauvist said:

magog_a4eb71ab said:

hwgs1971 said:

These boards are full of "what hair is this?" and what clothes are these?" posts. From now on before I purchase I am going to check the "Additional products used in promo images" section. If it is not populated, no sale. If the vendor cannot give credit to others when using their work in promos, then I'll buy from someone else. It's even sillier when the vendor doesn't even list their own assets as those that were used.  You just cost yourself two sales.

There are a couple of assets I'd like to buy today, but I want to recreate them exactly as shown in the promos. Since the vendor does not say which additional assets were used, I cannot recreate it, so no sale.

You're only going to succeed in punishing the PA for Daz's policies and your lack of creativity. I can't imagine the importance of duplicating a promo render when a lot of the fun is recreating the scene with a different flare. If me buying & using Daz products was so dependent on duplicating promo images, I would've just gave up on 3D rendering altogether. Its a lot more satifying making a scene that looks just as good vs copying it exactly.

You don't understand - we often don't want the product the promo image is for, or want to re-create the promo image - what we want is a product IN the promo image - the un-named hair, or the un-named character.  There are a few vendors whom I resent so much for filling their promo images with un-named products that I refuse to even open ANY of their product pages.  If they can't be bothered to list what they used, then I can't be bothered to look at any of their products.  The customer is always right - even when they're wrong.  'Cause the customers are keeping this place open.

From what I understand, the OP is complaining about not being able to recreate the same exact scene in a promo image with a product due to a lack of an exhaustive list of the product(s) being used in the promos, and therefore is refusing to buy from PAs that neglect making these lists. Imo, this makes no sense. Promos are generally meant to illustrate what you're getting "out of the box" and "what is possible" with some added creativity. I can understand individuals wanting to recreate certain aspects of a promo, whether it be props, lighting, etc., but to recreate and render the same promo just doesn't make much sense unless you're trying to copy & claim it as your own. ? ?

Fauvist

charles said:

Fauvist said:

Rane said:

I've used waay too many small pieces, parts and widgets from so many different sets for each of my promos, kitbashing, as it were, that I can't even remember what was used for one individual set, much less how to find it in the store.  The customer is not always right.  You wouldn't say that if you've ever worked in retail.  I'm not losing any sleep from you, or anyone, refusing to buy my stuff, because there are PLENTY of other customers who do, who don't have your particular squeemishness.  Besides.  YOU CAN ALWAYS ASK.

I worked in retail as a display artist for 26 years while at the same time being a motion picture (union) set decorator.  You must have noticed that "what is the product used in this promo" is almost always asked about hair models, characters, and wardrobe.  If you have 3 things in your promo - a character,  a dress, and a hair model - how hard is it say what the hair and dress are?  When I was working in a high end department store and a customer asked where the prop picnic basket in the window could be found, if I didn't have a record of it, I'd phone around and ask my coworkers.  If they didn't know, I was authorized to sell the customer the one in the window, and I'd ask a manager to make-up a price. I was also authorized to GIVE THEM THE ITEM for free out of the window if it wasn't something of great value like an antique armoire (which we ALWAYS knew the origin of.)  The rule was "every customer has to leave the store smiling", and we'd do whatever we had to in order to get that reaction.  Any time a customer said something like, "I hate putting you to all this trouble - I ALWAYS replied, "That's what I'm here for."  Superior retailers never say, "I don't know" to any customer question.  If they wanted the Christmas decorations hanging from the ceiling, I'd get a ladder and take it down and give it to them at no charge.  If I saw any customer struggling to carry their purchases, I'd ask them if I could carry it to their car for them. If they wanted the ladder I was standing on, I'd call the hardware stores in the area until I found it.  I did this for 26 years and I enjoyed interacting with the public and finding them exactly what they wanted,  It was a pleasure working under these conditions.  I never once had a coflict with a customer.  And after I gave them the free picnic basket from the window - they'd come back and buy a $6000 blouse.

 

 

You should call Lowes and tell them how to do business. My wife really wanted this new Doodle dog Christmas yard decoration. When I got to the local Lowes the only one they had was the display model. I checked my phone for availbility anywhere else and it was sold out of all stores for several surrounding states. I unplugged the the dog and took it up to the self checkout. When the tag on it didn't work a worker came over and offered to help. She asked if it was the display, and I said "Yes it's the only one anywhere." She said she didn't mind selling it to me but had to check with the manager, a few minutes later the manager came over and started yelling at the worker helping me that displays couldn't be sold. I asked if they were getting in more in before Christmas and she said "No", so "why can't I buy this one?" "Becuase that's our policy!" Yikes. 

I'm sorry you had that experience.  The truth is that you can get virtually anything couriered from anywhere within 24 hours (or at least you could before COVID).  If it's in another state, all they had to do was phone the store to process the sale and call the courier and you would have got it the next day.  Most big retailers already have accounts with multiple shipping companies.
Even for store workers being paid minimum wage, it's preferable to have a pleasant interaction with a customer than to have a hostile conflict.  Since your Doodle dog was from a display, they should have given it to you for half price.

 

AllenArt

hwgs1971 said:

These boards are full of "what hair is this?" and what clothes are these?" posts. From now on before I purchase I am going to check the "Additional products used in promo images" section. If it is not populated, no sale. If the vendor cannot give credit to others when using their work in promos, then I'll buy from someone else. It's even sillier when the vendor doesn't even list their own assets as those that were used.  You just cost yourself two sales.

There are a couple of assets I'd like to buy today, but I want to recreate them exactly as shown in the promos. Since the vendor does not say which additional assets were used, I cannot recreate it, so no sale.

You DO realize that a lot of PA's don't even do their own promos, right? Also, if an asset's been used from another store, Daz allows the asset to be used in a promo, but does not allow any info on where you can get those assets. Why punish the PA's for that? Besides, there's always someone that recognizes a hair or a character - just keep in mind that most promo characters are CUSTOM, which means you can't get them anywhere. 

Write Idea

Fauvist said:

magog_a4eb71ab said:

hwgs1971 said:

These boards are full of "what hair is this?" and what clothes are these?" posts. From now on before I purchase I am going to check the "Additional products used in promo images" section. If it is not populated, no sale. If the vendor cannot give credit to others when using their work in promos, then I'll buy from someone else. It's even sillier when the vendor doesn't even list their own assets as those that were used.  You just cost yourself two sales.

There are a couple of assets I'd like to buy today, but I want to recreate them exactly as shown in the promos. Since the vendor does not say which additional assets were used, I cannot recreate it, so no sale.

You're only going to succeed in punishing the PA for Daz's policies and your lack of creativity. I can't imagine the importance of duplicating a promo render when a lot of the fun is recreating the scene with a different flare. If me buying & using Daz products was so dependent on duplicating promo images, I would've just gave up on 3D rendering altogether. Its a lot more satifying making a scene that looks just as good vs copying it exactly.

You don't understand - we often don't want the product the promo image is for, or want to re-create the promo image - what we want is a product IN the promo image - the un-named hair, or the un-named character.  There are a few vendors whom I resent so much for filling their promo images with un-named products that I refuse to even open ANY of their product pages.  If they can't be bothered to list what they used, then I can't be bothered to look at any of their products.  The customer is always right - even when they're wrong.  'Cause the customers are keeping this place open.

I would partially agree.  The customer is right (within reason).  Looking at your lower comment, you do have an extensive career within the retail environment.  As do I.  As someone who's worked in commission, non-commission, sales management, conflict resolution, and wedding & gift registry, dealing with the public can be a demanding job.  It is the sign of a good sales person and company to provide excellent customer service.  Appeasing every single person and making everyone happy to their exact liking is impossible.  Yes the customer base does keep the lights on, however, it is the sales staff that keep the customer base happy.  

The original poster did make a valid point that in order to recreate the intended image, the OP wanted to know exactly what products were used.  The OP also found the solution to said problem, because there are multiple posts asking for products in promotional images.  Yes, it is an extra step the OP has to do in order to complete the image, but it's not the end of the world.  I myself have had to ask the boards for a product reference here and there.  Some were found on DAZ, some were found elsewhere, and some posts were completely ignored.  

If this is a growing trend within the consumer base, DAZ should look into updating their policy.  As of now, I don't see a problem with asking the board for an eye on spotting a product here and there.  The boards are extremely friendly and willing to give a helping hand.

Ghosty12

I try myself to never let it get to me, but sometimes it does but that is about it if I like the look of the product and it is what I am after then I buy it.. I did have one case of where a character product, was using a hair product that I liked as well and it never said what it was, but it didn't stop me from buying it as I liked said product..

But to say you won't buy a product because it does not state everything that is used in the promos seems a bit naff, but that is up to you..  Sometimes what is used in the promos, is something that the PA has created just for that promo image.. Heck it has been said in the past, that about how some of what you see in promo images is a PA's personal creation that is not for sale..

WendyLuvsCatz

I wouldn't let it stop me from buying something as long as what is included is clearly stated.

I like the clay renders showing the actual product for that reason

it's a bonus if things from the store used are listed as it often results in a wishlist addition if not a sale that day

I do find it annoying when stuff from sites we cannot discuss on the forum are used though (I don't mean legit sites that just cannot be linked either, the one beginning with Fo.. for example)

Fauvist

charles said:

double post 

@charles  You can buy the Lowes Christmas LED dog decoration on ebay from several sellers.  "  Holiday Living 27” Christmas LED Light Up Fluffy Doodle Dog "

scorpio

Rane said:

I've used waay too many small pieces, parts and widgets from so many different sets for each of my promos, kitbashing, as it were, that I can't even remember what was used for one individual set, much less how to find it in the store.  The customer is not always right.  You wouldn't say that if you've ever worked in retail.  I'm not losing any sleep from you, or anyone, refusing to buy my stuff, because there are PLENTY of other customers who do, who don't have your particular squeemishness.  Besides.  YOU CAN ALWAYS ASK.

To be honset with that attitude towards customers I wouldn't buy from you - but it appears that your only customer is Daz. 

Taoz

Why not just browse the DAZ store's and other stores' complete catalogs, then you'll probably find all those things used on promo pages that you might be interested in, plus a lot of other things you might like.  If not, they're probably not available anymore anyway.